Why pay lip service to Test cricket?

[vvvslaxman]

@vvs It's seems you are finding it difficult to accept that Indian batting line-up over the last 12 months was just sh!t. No amount of preparation, acclimatization, resting would have changed the results. The pathetic thing in Australia was they got clean swept by Aussie 2nd choice bowling attack. Hell, look at England they did three months of prep work for their Asian tour early in the year, but still got clean swept by mid-level ranked Pakistan side, because fundamentally their batting sucked at playing good quality spin on a turning track. Fundamentally our batting just sucked playing against regular good length pace good bowling. It wasn't a barrage of pace and short balls that did the Indian batting. I mean Dravid's dismissal types in Australia were unheard off before.

IN the last decade or so Indian batting rarely sucked in England or Australia. Just because England failed against Ajmal and co with preparation, we should go without preparation and justify it based on that. If only IPL had been held just before WOrld cup, i bet my bottom dollar india would have not even reached semi final much like world T20. Didn't Viru play well in the last tour of Australia against better attack? India should have sent a full strength side to Windies and whitewashed them . India would have gone to England with much better preparation. Yes we can always choose the easy excuse of "we lost because we sucked" . Any team can get away with that excuse. But why did we suck? You cannot possibly say Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman always sucked in Australia, England. Heck even bangladesh put up a total of 382 in one of the match in England. We barely crossed 300. Do you seriously think we are worse than Bangladesh? If you say yes i will buy your argument we always suck there.

[vvvslaxman]

I think the Indian team relaxed after winning the WC2011. The lack of motivation was clearly visible in all the touring players (young & old). There were many other factors like injury and lack of preparedness.. New dumb coach also didn't helped. Call this an afterthought, but BCCI babus should plan a little bit for future. I mean scheduling tough abroad tours after a sub-continent WC..That too after IPL etc. On top of that ECB does it's own scheduling by having Test matches to start the tour and followed by ODIs. Ideally a tour should start with couple of T20s, then 5 ODIS and followed by Test matches.. Also the Oldies were on their way downhill... PS: There could be tension and groupism between Dhoni and other senior players..

Bottomline is failure in international matches is not getting serious backlash anymore. From coach to players. There is no accountability. Kumble was the only one who raised the voice about failures abroad. I don't think BCCI came up with any kind of report . IPL completely washed away the debacles abroad. Kapil dev was dropped for one brainless shot despite he made a 60 in the first innings. Fat fu** srinivasan came up with a brilliant statement No need to inquire into performance.

[asterix]

^ I think BCCI knows very well that it can't push players to perform everywhere (especially abroad) including IPL. As long as players are available and performing in IPL, I don't think BCCI will bother much about other things..Players know that too..

[Marut]

Foreigner are obviously better than the Indian locals. Its a mathematical probability. If we consider that there are 10 good players in the top 8 teams' date=' then on an average each IPL team will have 1.1 good Indian player and 4 good foreign player.[/quote'] If probability is anything to go by, India being the most populous nation should produce the best team, infact our population should churn out ten or more world beating teams. There are more Indians playing cricket than the entire world put together, and we have the richest board, still we suck - shows something is seriously wrong somewhere.

[Needforspeed]

If probability is anything to go by' date=' India being the most populous nation should produce the best team, infact our population should churn out ten or more world beating teams. There are more Indians playing cricket than the entire world put together, and we have the richest board, still we suck - shows something is seriously wrong somewhere.[/quote'] We are not a cricket playing country, we are a cricket watching county. India's population just translates into the largest number of TV audience or spectators, not players.

[Marut]

We are not a cricket playing country' date=' we are a cricket watching county. India's population just translates into the largest number of TV audience or spectators, not players.[/quote'] Players also - start from school cricket, and tell me why Indiia does not have the highest number of players in the world.

[Marut]

Myth: IPL has destroyed Indian test cricket Reality: India sucked in away tours since times immorarial. Every since we started playing cricket we have sucked in away tours. If anything we reached our peak when IPL started. These authors are complaining like idiots. Just because you get news from twitter instead of brainwashing TV does it mean we are stupid these days? These so called experts forget test cricket over the decades have been repeatedly shortened. IPL does test a sports mans ability. Six weeks of non stop playing, owner pressure, media pressure and only a few overs to prove themselves.

[Precambrian]

Reality: The situation had dramatically changed after 2002-2003 and India has played its best cricket overseas during the last decade. Now we are going back to the era before this "golden age" started.

Yeah, but that can be attributed to the blossoming of the best ever middle order we had. Dravid/Laxman and Tendulkar coming to party together and with a reasonably solid opening order meant we started performing better overseas. Now they've all but gone, and consequently our batting fortunes have dipped. That it has got to do with IPL is just lolworthy. I cannot understand how people are eager to attribute the failure in the last 12 months to IPL but completely forget the previous 36 or so months. We drew in SA, something we had not in the past (iirc) We won in NZ drew in SL won in WI And we haven't lost a test series at home in ages. Have a home record of 4-0 against Australia in the last 6 matches (all IPL era), series win against Engerlund. Drew against SA. Yes, we had absolutely shambolic series in Eng and Aus in 2011-12. But to blame that on IPL is just being blind of the obivious.

[saneindian]

Hindsight is always 20/20. How many of those blaming IPL for 8-0 had predicted before the England series that we will be whitewashed? Don't remember anyone saying that. The general consensus was we would , as always, start slowly but go onto do well, it being a 4 match series and would either draw the series or win it. Wonder why no references to IPL ruining our cricket were made back then. Also, wasn't it always well known that our test side will struggle for some years once the big 4 fade away and ultimately retire? Not sure if IPL was used as the excuse for all such assertions prior to the England tour. Yes IPL has eaten away into our domestic schedule, made the BCCI (and perhaps some players as well) immune to how we perform in tests but to blame it for all the ills of our cricket is taking a very simplistic view.

[jairamesh]

Also as someone pointed out earlier if IPL didn't exist then ICL would have filled the spot. This would have had far bigger negative consequences on the not just Indian cricket but international cricket everywhere than IPL. We all saw what happened when ICL started. To the contrary, IPL is now needed to run Indian cricket. If IPL didn't exist, then players would simply move to a BCCI unsanctioned "ICL" type tournament effectively ruling them out of Test and all other international cricket.

[Marut]

Yeah, but that can be attributed to the blossoming of the best ever middle order we had. Dravid/Laxman and Tendulkar coming to party together and with a reasonably solid opening order meant we started performing better overseas. Now they've all but gone, and consequently our batting fortunes have dipped. That it has got to do with IPL is just lolworthy. I cannot understand how people are eager to attribute the failure in the last 12 months to IPL but completely forget the previous 36 or so months. We drew in SA, something we had not in the past (iirc) We won in NZ drew in SL won in WI And we haven't lost a test series at home in ages. Have a home record of 4-0 against Australia in the last 6 matches (all IPL era), series win against Engerlund. Drew against SA. Yes, we had absolutely shambolic series in Eng and Aus in 2011-12. But to blame that on IPL is just being blind of the obivious.

When was the last time we got thrashed in a similar manner. We have not just dipped but nose dived, all in just 6 months. These two were historically worst defeats, the likes of which have rarely happened, except perhaps to Bangladesh. They were not mere white washes, almost every test was a massive innings defeat or a close equivalent, and India managed to own a maximum of one of two sessions per test. There was something more than just the aging seniors or poor form there. Then what was it according to you? Ask our selectors, what were their findings? The IPL did not affect us in the first couple of years because the team was solid to begin with. The previous 36 months were built on strong foundations over the past 120 months and now the foundations are weakening and it is showing with no place to hide. India is becoming a joke in test cricket. A player like Tendulkar is not going to be affected by playing one IPL is it? But year after year, IPL is destroying Indian cricket slowly. We are only beginning to experience the effects now, and may be the next year or two will clarify the issues further.

[The Outsider]

Hindsight is always 20/20. How many of those blaming IPL for 8-0 had predicted before the England series that we will be whitewashed? Don't remember anyone saying that.

I know of 2 - The Outsider and Dhondy.

[Marut]

Hindsight is always 20/20. How many of those blaming IPL for 8-0 had predicted before the England series that we will be whitewashed? Don't remember anyone saying that. The general consensus was we would , as always, start slowly but go onto do well, it being a 4 match series and would either draw the series or win it. Wonder why no references to IPL ruining our cricket were made back then. Also, wasn't it always well known that our test side will struggle for some years once the big 4 fade away and ultimately retire? Not sure if IPL was used as the excuse for all such assertions prior to the England tour. Yes IPL has eaten away into our domestic schedule, made the BCCI (and perhaps some players as well) immune to how we perform in tests but to blame it for all the ills of our cricket is taking a very simplistic view.

I was not expecting 4-0 in England. But I was expecting something like 2-0 , knowing the home strength of Anderson, Tremlett, Broad et al, coupled with the phenomenal form of their batsmen who had crushed Australia in Australia. England was the better side, it was there was every one to see, well before the tour began. Australia series result was on expected lines, after the English tour, which must have killed the confidence of Indian players. I was expecting 2-0 in Australia, as Australia was supposedly a new team still struggling to make it big, and 4-0 came as a surprise. I was a skeptic of the influence of IPL on Indian cricket before these comprehensive white washes, and now it will take a much better Indian performance( esp overseas) to convince me that IPL has no negative effects on indian cricket. Losing abroad is fine, but going down without the semblence of a fight, seems to be the result of many factors, IPL being a prominent one amongst them.

[rkt.india]

India should have sent a full strength side to Windies and whitewashed them ..

Do you even know why we could not whitewash them. Because last two test matches were rain interrupted, not because we did not play well. We would have won all three tests but for rain. Even full strength side would not have made it possible to win those rain disturbed matches.

[rkt.india]

Hindsight is always 20/20. Yes IPL has eaten away into our domestic schedule,

IPL has not eaten anything in our domestic schedule. It is an addition to the schedule as It happens in May by that time our domestic season used to be finished. What eaten that time is T20 domestic tournament and CL T20 in October.

[The Outsider]

Do you even know why we could not whitewash them. Because last two test matches were rain interrupted' date=' not because we did not play well. We would have won all three tests but for rain. Even full strength side would not have made it possible to win those rain disturbed matches.[/quote'] With a better team, we would not have been able to finish the matches earlier for the rain to become irrelevant?

[rkt.india]

With a better team' date=' we would not have been able to finish the matches earlier for the rain to become irrelevant?[/quote'] I don't think that would have made much of a difference full strength team or not. We played with full strength team in India and still we could not win 3-0 and some times struggled. Viru would have struggled on those pitches like he has been struggling overseas since 2008 Aus tour and it was our bowling apart from Ishant which lacked bite, PK and Munaf were below average in those last two tests and Bhajji in the last two tests was outbowled by Bishoo. It was our inability to dismiss their tailenders in those two tests which let those test got away from us. Only Zaheer was missing as a significant factor. Raina may not have played if SRT was available and Raina scored runs. About 150 overs were ruined due to rain in second test and over 100 overs were ruined in third test which was a completely dead track, a possibility of win with complete match was a big achievement on that track.

[vvvslaxman]

I don't think that would have made much of a difference full strength team or not. We played with full strength team in India and still we could not win 3-0 and some times struggled. Viru would have struggled on those pitches like he has been struggling overseas since 2008 Aus tour and it was our bowling apart from Ishant which lacked bite, PK and Munaf were below average in those last two tests and Bhajji in the last two tests was outbowled by Bishoo. It was our inability to dismiss their tailenders in those two tests which let those test got away from us. Only Zaheer was missing as a significant factor. Raina may not have played if SRT was available and Raina scored runs. About 150 overs were ruined due to rain in second test and over 100 overs were ruined in third test which was a completely dead track, a possibility of win with complete match was a big achievement on that track.

No. With better side we would have won those tests comfortably even with rain. India had time to chase the total. But timidity was the reason why we lost. Sehwag/Gambhir

[Prakat]

No. With better side we would have won those tests comfortably even with rain. India had time to chase the total. But timidity was the reason why we lost. Sehwag/Gambhir < Gauti/viru? Seriuosly? India had enough overs to win both tests. India would have completely outbatted them. There is no way full strength Indian side would have come out with the same result.They would have gone to England with better momentum. Pretty bad preparation for a big tour like England tour in the end. But for one bad session Srilanka could have very well drawn the series against England. England sure beat everyone at home. SL' date= Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Australia. But none lost worse than India. There are some intangible factors that you cannot prove. Real fun begins once all our seniors retire.

:stoned:

[vvvslaxman]

:stoned:

:cantstop: let me correct!!