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Why pay lip service to Test cricket?

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Number Grand Master

Number

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No. With better side we would have won those tests comfortably even with rain. India had time to chase the total. But timidity was the reason why we lost. Sehwag/Gambhir < Abhinav/VIjay? Seriuosly? India had enough overs to win both tests. India would have completely outbatted them. There is no way full strength Indian side would have come out with the same result.They would have gone to England with better momentum. Pretty bad preparation for a big tour like England tour in the end. But for one bad session Srilanka could have very well drawn the series against England. England sure beat everyone at home. SL' date=' Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Australia. But none lost worse than India. There are some intangible factors that you cannot prove. Real fun begins once all our seniors retire.[/quote'] Sehwag wouldn't have been fit for WI tour, even if he had gone for surgery before playing 9-10 IPL games. He would've come directly to England. Also I don't think by beating WI 2-0 we would've done better in England. Like Raina was probably our best batsman in WI test series. Scored a ton in warm up game in England.But in the test series in England he was worse than MSD. Similar case for Laxman. In bowling Ishant who did well in WI was poor in England.
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rkt.india Grand Master

rkt.india

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No. With better side we would have won those tests comfortably even with rain. India had time to chase the total. But timidity was the reason why we lost. Sehwag/Gambhir < Abhinav/VIjay? Seriuosly? India had enough overs to win both tests. India would have completely outbatted them. There is no way full strength Indian side would have come out with the same result.They would have gone to England with better momentum. Pretty bad preparation for a big tour like England tour in the end. But for one bad session Srilanka could have very well drawn the series against England. England sure beat everyone at home. SL' date=' Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Australia. But none lost worse than India. There are some intangible factors that you cannot prove. Real fun begins once all our seniors retire.[/quote'] How long would have Sehwag lasted? How many have Sehwag scored overseas in last 4 years? when you have more than 100 overs wasted due to rain, you cant win matches even if you have strongest of the batting. It is bowling which wins you rain shortened games, not batting and out bowling apart from Ishant was toothless. We could have won last match, but we could not get Edwards out last day. While in the 2nd test, only 300 overs were bowled. How many times India have won in 300 overs with full strength team even against weakest of the team. We struggled to win against NZ at home. How about that? Preparation makes a difference, but just marginal, it does not yield you 4-0 drubbing. Even last Aus and England tour, our preparation was nothing special, still we had done quite well. We were all talking about trying youngsters in WI series and now people are crying over that after 8-0 like it is because that tour we came across 8-0. scorecards: http://www.cricketworld4u.com/scoreboard.php?match_Id=984 http://www.cricketworld4u.com/scoreboard.php?match_Id=983
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putrevus Grand Master

putrevus

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IN the last decade or so Indian batting rarely sucked in England or Australia. Just because England failed against Ajmal and co with preparation' date=' we should go without preparation and justify it based on that. If only IPL had been held just before WOrld cup, i bet my bottom dollar india would have not even reached semi final much like world T20. Didn't Viru play well in the last tour of Australia against better attack? India should have sent a full strength side to Windies and whitewashed them . India would have gone to England with much better preparation. Yes we can always choose the easy excuse of "we lost because we sucked" . Any team can get away with that excuse. But why did we suck? You cannot possibly say Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman always sucked in Australia, England. Heck even bangladesh put up a total of 382 in one of the match in England. We barely crossed 300. Do you seriously think we are worse than Bangladesh? If you say yes i will buy your argument we always suck there.[/quote'] This group of Indians have never done well in Australia and Their stats are over hyped to some extent. in 1999 with the same big three in middle order they got smoked 3-0 with Mcgrath in line up. The one series they did well in 2003-04 series but Mcgrath was missing from their bowling line up then.That was weakest bowling attack this group of Indians faced during their careers Fricking Andy Bichel and (hit me for four every over) Macgill were bowlers for Aussies and Brett Lee was too raw.Tendulkar made merry in last test after failing to show up for first three tests.This was one series which Dravid did well in Australia. This was the when Dravid was at his best and carried Indian batting, we got the major wins in Australia ,England and Pakistan. Laxman always does well there but may be he is too old now. In the same series look at how Aussies over came their weak bowling attack with their batting they were facing 705 and still did not wilt under pressure like Indians did last time. The same thing happened with England in last ashes in first test in Brisbane both Strauss and Cook stone walled the same bowling attack minus Johnson to save the test. In England they have always performed well but they never faced a strong England team before which was oozing with confidence after their Ashes win. The truth of the matter is our famed batting line up rarely performed well as unit overseas.This Indian batting line with their stats are comparable to any batting line up in history of the game and yet they have crumbled under pressure more times than they have succeeded. Even in last series down under I put more blame on batting than bowling for 3 losses.Our batting never showed up and yet it was bowling which got blamed more.
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vvvslaxman Grand Master

vvvslaxman

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How long would have Sehwag lasted? How many have Sehwag scored overseas in last 4 years? when you have more than 100 overs wasted due to rain, you cant win matches even if you have strongest of the batting. It is bowling which wins you rain shortened games, not batting and out bowling apart from Ishant was toothless. We could have won last match, but we could not get Edwards out last day. While in the 2nd test, only 300 overs were bowled. How many times India have won in 300 overs with full strength team even against weakest of the team. We struggled to win against NZ at home. How about that? Preparation makes a difference, but just marginal, it does not yield you 4-0 drubbing. Even last Aus and England tour, our preparation was nothing special, still we had done quite well. We were all talking about trying youngsters in WI series and now people are crying over that after 8-0 like it is because that tour we came across 8-0. scorecards: http://www.cricketworld4u.com/scoreboard.php?match_Id=984 http://www.cricketworld4u.com/scoreboard.php?match_Id=983
Indian test team performed well as a unit until Windies tour. They distrubed the combination big time. Indian batting unit never flunked until that tour. They started failing only after that tour. What did our team do. World cup, IPL ------ directly England tour (most of them) so there is no test match preparation as a UNIT. This is not the same old England side where Dinesh karthik made feast of their bowling. Even Anil Kumble got a 100 then. This is the England side who demolished Australia in Australia and England. This ist he side that won 3-1 against pakistan bowling them out for under 100 total 3 times. Far superior bowling unit atleast formwise. So you cannot use other failed tours as an example and justify lack of preparation. This was billed as a contest for no.1 spot. Yes.. we failed because our batting failed bowling failed.. Why did our bowling fail batting fail? Can you tell why they failed instead of telling me why we lost?
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ganeshran Explorer

ganeshran

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^ All these are hindsight arguments which can be twisted to basically support any viewpoint. The decline in our test team is not because of IPL, its because the batting is fading and bowling is crap. If IPL will cause any decline it will be in test players who just now in the stage of learning their basics. If they ignore the fundamentals in order to concentrate on more lucrative T20 cricket, only then IPL would have harmed our test cricket propsects. All these players (seniors and the ones in the A-team) are not products of a system of which IPL is a part of. They happened to be in their prime when IPL was introduced and went on to make a ton of money out of it. IPL wasnt around when the coach was teaching them footwork, or how to maintain balance while playing the shot. These basics can neither be learnt after an age , nor can it be unlearnt in order to suit a particular format.

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jairamesh Newbie

jairamesh

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True to form C_T: From the same thread.
I'm not as confident as some of the others on the forum.
and response:
Maybe it has to do with your age? Whether realistic or not I find the younger fans have way more confidence and way less fear than some of us 30 pluses....and here I was thinking I am the more "bold" Indian fan in another cricket forum. But I do see lot of guys here older than me too...anyway youth makes the most noise (in a positive way)...lol!
Another gem:
Pretty Good if (Zaheer and Ishanth) or(Zaheer and Sreesanth) bowl well. Our batting is the best in the business out there.
:hysterical::hysterical: Hindsight is a wonderful, if only, if only....:giggle: Those were some painful months, but it least I can take solace is some of those replies:hysterical:
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Chandan Newbie

Chandan

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IPL has not eaten anything in our domestic schedule. It is an addition to the schedule as It happens in May by that time our domestic season used to be finished. What eaten that time is T20 domestic tournament and CL T20 in October.
Yes it has. And IPL doesn't only happen in May. It starts in April. Maybe you don't read captains' columns where they've been complaining of the crammed domestic schedule because id IPL and CL and they getting very little breaks between the matches during which they have to travel as well. One of the captain was complaining that this was the reason why he did not want to risk his strike bowlers during the league phase of Ranji trophy and was satisfied with 1st inning lead. I think you study in detail about these things, before saying it. We've had a detailed discussion over this topic in the thread "Is IPL hurting Indian cricket"?. If you want, you can go and see what we discussed there.
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Crookbond Newbie

Crookbond

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Hindsight is always 20/20. How many of those blaming IPL for 8-0 had predicted before the England series that we will be whitewashed? Don't remember anyone saying that. The general consensus was we would , as always, start slowly but go onto do well, it being a 4 match series and would either draw the series or win it. Wonder why no references to IPL ruining our cricket were made back then. Also, wasn't it always well known that our test side will struggle for some years once the big 4 fade away and ultimately retire? Not sure if IPL was used as the excuse for all such assertions prior to the England tour. Yes IPL has eaten away into our domestic schedule, made the BCCI (and perhaps some players as well) immune to how we perform in tests but to blame it for all the ills of our cricket is taking a very simplistic view.
Hindsight be abhi T20 ho gaya. Shya, no one wants to watch Test cricket. :headshake:
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rkt.india Grand Master

rkt.india

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Yes it has. And IPL doesn't only happen in May. It starts in April. Maybe you don't read captains' columns where they've been complaining of the crammed domestic schedule because id IPL and CL and they getting very little breaks between the matches during which they have to travel as well. One of the captain was complaining that this was the reason why he did not want to risk his strike bowlers during the league phase of Ranji trophy and was satisfied with 1st inning lead. I think you study in detail about these things, before saying it. We've had a detailed discussion over this topic in the thread "Is IPL hurting Indian cricket"?. If you want, you can go and see what we discussed there.
The time is shortened because of CL and Mushtaq ali trophy not because of IPL. By the time IPL starts, our domestic season used to end anyway even when IPL was not there. Our domestic set up is crowded with too many useless tournaments.
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saneindian Enthusiast

saneindian

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RKT I distinctly remember Ranji finals being played towards the end of April and sometimes even in May in the 90s and early 2000s. IPL starts from first week of April and now the season ends by 3rd or 4th week of March. Obviously IPL has eaten into our domestic schedule by a minimum of 3-4 weeks. CL too eats into the schedule.

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rkt.india Grand Master

rkt.india

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RKT I distinctly remember Ranji finals being played towards the end of April and sometimes even in May in the 90s and early 2000s. IPL starts from first week of April and now the season ends by 3rd or 4th week of March. Obviously IPL has eaten into our domestic schedule by a minimum of 3-4 weeks. CL too eats into the schedule.
But that was when, we did not have Elite and Plate groups, so teams used to play a lot of matches. Teams do not play many 4 day matches now. If you see county cricket, they play lot of matches. They also have play one day matches simultaneously in between those FC matches. Even at that time, it mostly used to end at the third week of April. http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Seasons/IND/2000-01_IND_Ranji_Trophy_2000-01.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Seasons/IND/1999-00_IND_Ranji_Trophy_1999-00.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Seasons/IND/1998-99_IND_Ranji_Trophy_1998-99.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Seasons/IND/1997-98_IND_Ranji_Trophy_1997-98.html and look at these three schedules of 2000s just before IPL, 2005, 2006, 2007. Ranji trophy ended even before April. http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Seasons/IND/2004-05_IND_Ranji_Trophy_2004-05.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Seasons/IND/2005-06_IND_Ranji_Trophy_2005-06.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Seasons/IND/2006-07_IND_Ranji_Trophy_2006-07.html
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Chandan Newbie

Chandan

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Posted
The time is shortened because of CL and Mushtaq ali trophy not because of IPL. By the time IPL starts' date=' our domestic season used to end anyway even when IPL was not there. Our domestic set up is crowded with too many useless tournaments.[/quote'] Isn't CL there because of IPL and is an extension of IPL? MA trophy HAS to be played as the domestic t20. Otherwise we won't get the players for that format. And we do need breaks in between the matches and for that we need the CL period and more than half of April free. It is not happening because of IPL and CL and it is obvious. None of the other tournaments are useless. We've been having them since decades!
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putrevus Grand Master

putrevus

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No. With better side we would have won those tests comfortably even with rain. India had time to chase the total. But timidity was the reason why we lost. Sehwag/Gambhir < Abhinav/VIjay? Seriuosly? India had enough overs to win both tests. India would have completely outbatted them. There is no way full strength Indian side would have come out with the same result.They would have gone to England with better momentum. Pretty bad preparation for a big tour like England tour in the end. But for one bad session Srilanka could have very well drawn the series against England. England sure beat everyone at home. SL' date=' Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Australia. But none lost worse than India. There are some intangible factors that you cannot prove.[b'] Real fun begins once all our seniors retire.
Show me one series in which our seniors dominated overseas outside Asia against a strong bowling attack. Each of them had their moments but as unit they never dominated any good to great bowling attacks.These guys had more shambolic performances than good ones. Honestly I don't think our young brigade can do much worse.If given that many chances they will be fine. Regarding WI series Dhoni never has been attacking or imaginative captain which I thought he would be when he began his captaincy. Dhoni had full strength team in New Zealand where he opted to bat on for ever to set that ridiculous target during last test knowing fully well about the weather pattern there.he did not want to take any chances. Unless Sehwag went nuts in WI which is no guarantee given his own debacles outside sub continent. Dhoni would have opted to rest on series lead rather than risking chance to lose the test and draw the series if Sehwag got out early. Same case with Dravid in Oval in 2007 not enforcing follow on and batted as if he was saving the the team from follow on. In contrast Aussies in WI recently Clarke declared giving away 40 runs lead first innings and went for win rather than a draw.
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vvvslaxman Grand Master

vvvslaxman

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Show me one series in which our seniors dominated overseas outside Asia against a strong bowling attack. Each of them had their moments but as unit they never dominated any good to great bowling attacks.These guys had more shambolic performances than good ones. Honestly I don't think our young brigade can do much worse.If given that many chances they will be fine. Regarding WI series Dhoni never has been attacking or imaginative captain which I thought he would be when he began his captaincy. Dhoni had full strength team in New Zealand where he opted to bat on for ever to set that ridiculous target during last test knowing fully well about the weather pattern there.he did not want to take any chances. Unless Sehwag went nuts in WI which is no guarantee given his own debacles outside sub continent. Dhoni would have opted to rest on series lead rather than risking chance to lose the test and draw the series if Sehwag got out early. Same case with Dravid in Oval in 2007 not enforcing follow on and batted as if he was saving the the team from follow on. In contrast Aussies in WI recently Clarke declared giving away 40 runs lead first innings and went for win rather than a draw.
It is pretty subjective. Last tour to Australia Brett Lee was at peak of his powers. Just go visit perth match thread about how fans feared getting demolished against Tait, Lee, Johnson, Clark. Do you seriously think Hilfenhaus, Siddle, Starc are a greater bowling unit compared to that one? This English attack was good. But are our batting worse than Srilankas batting? For fu** sake Srilankan wicket keeper got a century against the same bowling attack before our tour. You are asking me to show a series where Indians collectively dominated.. show me a series before this Australian tour where Indian batting collectively failed outside Asia apart from that one series they used drop in pitches in NZ.
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