Was Federer lucky to have won 16 Grand slam ?

[Crookbond]

There is nothing could have/should have or would have kinda logic about the fact that Federer numbers benefited a lot from lack of depth in ATP circuit between 2003 to 2007. I had asked two questions in my earlier posts which none of Federer-ist chose to answer. 1. Who has been the second best player of the era in which Federer dominated? 2. I had asked how many think that Federer's number of GS would have been even higher if Nadal and Djoko had not emerged. I can understand why Federer's fan avoiding an answer to this question. Yoda-E, I am not trolling here. I just honestly believe so.

This has always and certainly been my gripe with Federer winning x number of GS. I don't think Federer may have won IF there were better players. I wouldn't say he was "lucky" either. Also, I believe there is a mental issue with Federer which most champions don't (one reason I don't include Borg as an ATG) too.

[Yoda-esque]

This has always and certainly been my gripe with Federer winning x number of GS. I don't think Federer may have won IF there were better players. I wouldn't say he was "lucky" either. Also' date=' I believe there is a mental issue with Federer which most champions don't (one reason I don't include Borg as an ATG) too.[/quote'] Lol keep going..:two_thumbs_up:

[akshayxyz]

This has always and certainly been my gripe with Federer winning x number of GS. I don't think Federer may have won IF there were better players. I wouldn't say he was "lucky" either. Also' date=' I believe there is a mental issue with Federer which most champions don't (one reason I don't include Borg as an ATG) too.[/quote'] replace Federer with Bradman. :phehehe: :two_thumbs_up:

[maniac]

This has always and certainly been my gripe with Federer winning x number of GS. I don't think Federer may have won IF there were better players. I wouldn't say he was "lucky" either. Also' date=' I believe[/size'] there is a mental issue with Federer which most champions don't (one reason I don't include Borg as an ATG) too.

:winky: Would love to know who 'you beleive'in Federer's era was mentally stronger and a complete player Djokovic? Nadal?

[Yoda-esque]

Some pearls in this thread gleaned from some of the tennis experts who know more about tennis than Laver,Mcenroe and Borg combined. -Borg is not an ATG - Federer won 17 slams, 6 Tennis Masters Cups, a zillion masters titles,almost 300 weeks at #1 being mentally fragile and by getting lucky -Wimby 2012 is the only slam Federer deserves - Safin,Hewitt,Nalbandian,Roddick,Gonzalez,Ferrero,Davydenko were absolute mugs; all Federer had to do was to show up and he would win the slam. - Federer is a mental midget;during his peak years (2004-2007) he went to 5 sets 7 whole times (yes 7 times in 3 years;how dare he!) winning 4 of them.He had no business losing the remaining three (BTW he won more points in two of those and had a foot injury in the third) - H2H is the only determining factor in determining who the better player is; nevermind the surface and also discounting the fact that a player needs to succeed against the remaining 99% of the field. There are a countless more of these but I am sure everybody remotely having some knowledge of tennis can see what I am getting at. Remind me again;who is the number 1 player in the world today?

[Crookbond]

Lol keep going..:two_thumbs_up:

Must I say perfect reactions from Fed fanatics! I just said - Federer is the most complete player I have seen, Federer is one of the All Time Greats and then said I "personally" feel that he isn't mentally stronger than some of his peers. It doesn't mean he is poor, it means there are players who are mentally stronger than him. And this is your reply? I know about the others but frankly didn't expect this from you. Will keep in mind next time.

replace Federer with Bradman.

Good knowledge on comparing team sport to individual sport. Your DP probably shows where your mind is. :good:

:winky: Would love to know who 'you beleive'in Federer's era was mentally stronger and a complete player Djokovic? Nadal?

Abbe - Listen or read what I said earlier. :facepalm: Roger Federer and Steffi Graf are the most "complete" players I have ever seen! Nadal and Sampras are the most mentally tough players I have ever seen. It would be stupid to rate Federer over Djokovic or Nadal in terms of pure skill. But running away with Federer pants and having orgasms because he won 16 slams and treating him the BEST player ever is even more ridiculous.

[maniac]

Some pearls in this thread gleaned from some of the tennis experts who know more about tennis than Laver,Mcenroe and Borg combined. -Borg is not an ATG - Federer won 17 slams, 6 Tennis Masters Cups, a zillion masters titles,almost 300 weeks at #1 being mentally fragile and by getting lucky -Wimby 2012 is the only slam Federer deserves - Safin,Hewitt,Nalbandian,Roddick,Gonzalez,Ferrero,Davydenko were absolute mugs; all Federer had to do was to show up and he would win the slam. - Federer is a mental midget;during his peak years (2004-2007) he went to 5 sets 7 whole times (yes 7 times in 3 years;how dare he!) winning 4 of them.He had no business losing the remaining three (BTW he won more points in two of those and had a foot injury in the third) - H2H is the only determining factor in determining who the better player is; nevermind the surface and also discounting the fact that a player needs to succeed against the remaining 99% of the field. There are a countless more of these but I am sure everybody remotely having some knowledge of tennis can see what I am getting at. Remind me again;who is the number 1 player in the world today?

Yoda-esqe Ji you have given relevant ponts at the same time you may have unwittingly provided some ammunition. Some of the points you raised will be twisted to such an extent that Federer will be a hack and a con-man who conned his way into all those grandslams Keep watching this thread now

[vvvslaxman]

Some pearls in this thread gleaned from some of the tennis experts who know more about tennis than Laver,Mcenroe and Borg combined. -Borg is not an ATG - Federer won 17 slams, 6 Tennis Masters Cups, a zillion masters titles,almost 300 weeks at #1 being mentally fragile and by getting lucky -Wimby 2012 is the only slam Federer deserves - Safin,Hewitt,Nalbandian,Roddick,Gonzalez,Ferrero,Davydenko were absolute mugs; all Federer had to do was to show up and he would win the slam. - Federer is a mental midget;during his peak years (2004-2007) he went to 5 sets 7 whole times (yes 7 times in 3 years;how dare he!) winning 4 of them.He had no business losing the remaining three (BTW he won more points in two of those and had a foot injury in the third) - H2H is the only determining factor in determining who the better player is; nevermind the surface and also discounting the fact that a player needs to succeed against the remaining 99% of the field. There are a countless more of these but I am sure everybody remotely having some knowledge of tennis can see what I am getting at. Remind me again;who is the number 1 player in the world today?

Didn't Nadal win his first title in 2005? FO. Nadal reached world no.3 in 2005 itself. He was not absolute nobody. If anything Federer's worst period was before 2003. Not after 2007 where he won 5 titles.

[Yoda-esque]

Must I say perfect reactions from Fed fanatics! I just said - Federer is the most complete player I have seen, Federer is one of the All Time Greats and then said I "personally" feel that he isn't mentally stronger than some of his peers. It doesn't mean he is poor, it means there are players who are mentally stronger than him. And this is your reply? I know about the others but frankly didn't expect this from you. Will keep in mind next time.

I love watching tennis.If I see a better player than Federer, I'll gladly admit it. But as I mentioned,keep going.You are doing a great job.

[Crookbond]

This is what classic fanatics do -- take convenient sides in an argument. Discussion 1 Old players romanticize over their era, don't count their experiences Discussion 2 Old players know more than here on ICF, don't discard them Here is one gem from Federer fanatics which I will never forget - Hewitt, Nalbandian, Ferrero and Davydenko are equal to Becker, Pat Rafter et al Comparing Hewitt and Nalbandian (FFS!) with Boris Becker and Pat Rafter :cantstop:

[maniac]

Abbe - Listen or read what I said earlier. :facepalm: Roger Federer and Steffi Graf are the most "complete" players I have ever seen! Nadal and Sampras are the most mentally tough players I have ever seen. It would be stupid to rate Federer over Djokovic or Nadal in terms of pure skill. But running away with Federer pants and having orgasms because he won 16 slams and treating him the BEST player ever is even more ridiculous.

Sampras really :hysterical:....the guy has 'choked' in every French open he played in or should I say was not good enough on clay.....I am not disrespecting Sampras here but he is definetely a notch below Fed as far as Nadal goes..I have never seen him dominate the way federer did in his peak...oh wait for that you need to keep yourself fit and hungry...the guy has a mediocre record on hard-courts,so what makes him better than Federer? May be 10 years from now when Nadal dominates the tennis circuit I will buy your argument but for now he is near fed's league but still far away to over take him.

[Crookbond]

I love watching tennis.If I see a better player than Federer, I'll gladly admit it. But as I mentioned,keep going.You are doing a great job.

Do you even read what I wrote? Now, this is getting irritating. And I resonate that I HAVE NOT SEEN A MORE COMPLETE PLAYER THAN FEDERER. How many times do I have to mention that? I don't think he's GOAT, he's an ATG but not a GOAT. Also, if I'm not mistake Laver considers Federer to be ahead of Nadal "but not my much" but sure enjoy the Fed-orgams. Good job!

[Yoda-esque]

Didn't Nadal win his first title in 2005? FO. Nadal reached world no.3 in 2005 itself. He was not absolute nobody. If anything Federer's worst period was before 2003. Not after 2007 where he won 5 titles.

Yes,another fact lost on people trying diminish Fedz legacy. Nadal won his first slam in 2005 and was ranked number 2 in the world. He could have beaten mugs like Safin,Hewitt,Roddick and Federer and easily become number 1 in the world.He was 19 but already a great player. Yet he became number only after a full 3.5 years post wimbledon2008 beating a glandular fever affected Federer 9-7 in the final.Kudos to him for doing that but Federer's last great match was the Tennis Masters Cup final in 2007.Once he developed glandular fever,he was never the same.You could see it in the semi at the AO against djokovic.

[Crookbond]

Sampras really :hysterical:....the guy has 'choked' in every French open he played in or should I say was not good enough on clay.....I am not disrespecting Sampras here but he is definetely a notch below Fed as far as Nadal goes..I have never seen him dominate the way federer did in his peak...oh wait for that you need to keep yourself fit and hungry...the guy has a mediocre record on hard-courts,so what makes him better than Federer? May be 10 years from now when Nadal dominates the tennis circuit I will buy your argument but for now he is near fed's league but still far away to over take him.

Since - when are you watching tennis? Sampras is the MOST mentally tough player I have ever seen. I'm sure you aren't aware of many a Sampras encounters. I suggest you read up rather than throwing random statements. He didn't "choke" on clay courts. Losing is not equal to "choking" - he didn't have the skill to win on clay courts. Simple as that. And when did I say Nadal or Sampras is better than Federer? I said mentally they are better not in terms of tennis skill. You need to stop getting your panties in a twist everytime I write something even remotely close which is not good to Federer. Federer is A BETTER and MORE COMPLETE tennis players than I have ever seen. He's an ATG player but not a GOAT - I don't think there exists one. Probably, Steffi Graf (not an appropriate comparison but need to make to get the point across) is the closest complete tennis player I have seen. And hey, here's something for you to suck on - Laver thinks Rafael Nadal "is not far behind" Federer and is "very close". But sure, keep ignoring that! Because for people like you there is a counter and 1 more slam means he's gone 1 step further. That measure is imbecile because you are disrespecting people like Laver, Margaret Court, Emerson etc.

[Yoda-esque]

Do you even read what I wrote? Now' date=' this is getting irritating. And I resonate that I[b'] HAVE NOT SEEN A MORE COMPLETE PLAYER THAN FEDERER. How many times do I have to mention that? I don't think he's GOAT, he's an ATG but not a GOAT. Also, if I'm not mistake Laver considers Federer to be ahead of Nadal "but not my much" but sure enjoy the Fed-orgams. Good job!

Kindly tell me who the GOAT is then. Laver is the only one that could have made a case for it and he himself has anointed Federer as Goat. Case closed. Personally speaking,I do not believe in Goat discussions,but Federer is widely regarded by experts,commentators and fans alike as being the greatest ever to pick up the tennis racquet.

[vvvslaxman]

I am biased towards single handed backhand players. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDFd4q3CycU]Bjorn Borg and Vijay Amritraj - YouTube[/ame] Classic match between Vijay Amritraj vs Borg. Great vollying.

[Yoda-esque]

Yoda-esqe Ji you have given relevant ponts at the same time you may have unwittingly provided some ammunition. Some of the points you raised will be twisted to such an extent that Federer will be a hack and a con-man who conned his way into all those grandslams Keep watching this thread now

Arre Bhaisaab,The purpose of any debate is not to win it,but to state facts. This thread was based on an assumption so it was flawed enough to begin with. Uske upar ICF ke resident tennis experts us par apna mirch-masala daalne lage. Mere bolne ya na bolne se kucch nahi hoga.Jo sacch hai so sacch hain.

[Crookbond]

Kindly tell me who the GOAT is then. Laver is the only one that could have made a case for it and he himself has anointed Federer as Goat. Case closed.

I don't think there is a GOAT. IMHO - Roger Federer, Rod Laver, Pete Sampras, Roy Emerson, Steffi Graf, Martina Navratilova, Margaret Court are the GOATS. There is NO single one because each one of these have some fallacies. If you agree to every word which Laver you have to also agree on two more counts - Nadal is "not far behind" Federer - Whom does Laver consider to be the BEST on grass? Please dig that and find for me If you agree to all Laver statements unconditionally case closed.

[coffee_rules]

+1 The "Career Grand Slam" are just like some new terms to put more honor. I've never heard them earlier until Federer won a French Open - I swear!

I heard it when Agassi won it the first time, a lot of US experts where claiming his ATGness over Sampras because of that.

[Yoda-esque]

I don't think there is a GOAT. IMHO - Roger Federer, Rod Laver, Pete Sampras, Roy Emerson, Steffi Graf, Martina Navratilova, Margaret Court are the GOATS. There is NO single one because each one of these have some fallacies. If you agree to every word which Laver you have to also agree on two more counts - Nadal is "not far behind" Federer - Whom does Laver consider to be the BEST on grass? Please dig that and find for me If you agree to all Laver statements unconditionally case closed.

Of course Nadal is not far behind. But he is behind nonetheless. And if he is behind,Federer must be better no? As far the best grass court player goes,Sampras and Federer are on an even keel. But again we are speculating.