yoda Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I don't understand why the pathetic strategy of torturing young kids needs to be quoted in reference to our own Olympic prep. There are more humane ways to prep for the Olympics and still be successful. Just because we suck, it doesn't mean we aren't entitled to comment on these chinese jokers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Pot, kettle, black. Says the guy who boasts abut doing his education in Europe/America. Lets just brush that inconvenient little detail under the carpet, shall we? :winky: I wasn't being sarcastic - I am genuinely appreciating the effort that middle and upper middle class Indian parents put in the education of their children. There are instances when they go overboard, which deserve criticism but I wasn't making that point but as usual you missed the point in your quest for ad hominems. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I don't understand why the pathetic strategy of torturing young kids needs to be quoted in reference to our own Olympic prep. There are more humane ways to prep for the Olympics and still be successful. Just because we suck, it doesn't mean we aren't entitled to comment on these chinese jokers. Exactly! Here are the two perspectives: 1. If a child shows inclination towards excelling in some sport, parents and government try to provide him the best possible environment to show that excellence. 2. The government randomly picks children with certain physical attributes and abilities and forces them to enhance them to get medals. Amazing how people can't see the difference. :wall: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Errr, I don't even know where to begin First of all, professional sport is cut throat. This is not about telling your kids 'try' their best and if they lose, than no big deal. Maybe it is in India, which explains its dismal performance in Olympics. Even if you disregard the participation of US/China/Russia, India don't get as many medals as they should in the Commonwealth Games. ROFL at 'our kids' ; North Korea currently has more medals than India, and by all accounts, North Korea is one of the most poorest, secluded and isolated counties in the world. Even Kazakhstan has more medals!! Still doesn't entitle sitting on kids and pulling their legs apart. How can you ****ing justify that? The spirit of the games is participation, goodwill, not about winning medals! If you win, celebrate, you lose, well tried better luck next time. We will not justify picking kids from the street and bend them to get better in Olympics for a dozen medals. Who the **** cares NKorea wins more medals. The populace has no rights, kids are starving and people are destitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 sree_North_Korea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 If the kid doesnt know anything else and is taught that there is only one thing he will do in his life then its not difficult to make them work hard. Also, many kids get trained only very few get to this level and then only some win. what about others ? If a coach slaps then yes its abuse , u disagree ? If parents force kids and they really do as I clearly mentioned in my earlier post then yes its abuse. If kids are playing and being looked after then its their choice - I would accept the same from Chinese too but they run it like a factory. Ofcourse parents are at fault too but from what i know, no one can really go against the govt of china. yea because thats what they do, they dont even allow their own citizens to make money by moving to another village unless the govt approves it in many cases and you are trying to explain that people have freedom in China. As for SRT example, there is a reason we dont have bowlers and have had only one SRT and RD. If 2-3 kids had won medals from China, do u think we would have reacted the same way for every successful sportsperson there are 100s who failed and 10s who sustain lifelong injury. there are two thing that you have pointed out- one whether the children are forced to play and second whether the training has to be so severe at that early age. regarding the first, neither you nor I have any proof. But I have no idea how a child can be picked at the age of three and people will know that he or she will excel in that sport. i looked up in the internet and there are 4000 such sports schools in china and in these schools a total of 400,000 students enrol. This is done voluntarily by the parents or the children. Based on their training (which includes education too btw), a handful are chosen for the elite Olympic training school. Now if you think back logically, if a child is uninterested and unwilling, his performance will suffer intentionally or unintentionally. You cant become an Olympian by coercion. Give me a break. What might happen is that these athletes are given superior nutrition and might be monetarily compensated, which can act as an incentive. I feel this is a much constructive endeavor for a child, having superior fitness (which can be used for jobs later on) rather than languishing as a child laborer in ram's roadside tea stall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Errr, I don't even know where to begin First of all, professional sport is cut throat. This is not about telling your kids 'try' their best and if they lose, than no big deal. Maybe it is in India, which explains its dismal performance in Olympics. Even if you disregard the participation of US/China/Russia, India don't get as many medals as they should in the Commonwealth Games. ROFL at 'our kids' ; North Korea currently has more medals than India, and by all accounts, North Korea is one of the most poorest, secluded and isolated counties in the world. Even Kazakhstan has more medals!! Genius! We never knew anything about pro. sport but your Australian passport makes you a natural athlete/expert and gives you the right to educate us :haha: Can't believe u ignore the brutality these innocent kids endure to take potshots at India. Feel free to criticize the poverty, condition of women and everything that's wrong with India but try and add to the discussion. BTW You reckon any of your Australian coaches wouldn't be thrown into prison if he/she tried any of those extreme antics ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Still doesn't entitle sitting on kids and pulling their legs apart. How can you ****ing justify that? The spirit of the games is participation, goodwill, not about winning medals! If you win, celebrate, you lose, well tried better luck next time. We will not justify picking kids from the street and bend them to get better in Olympics for a dozen medals. Who the **** cares NKorea wins more medals. The populace has no rights, kids are starving and people are destitute. that is part of the training. the person does not sit on the child on the very first day. It is called progressive loading and the human body adapts enabling a person to stretch. It's cut throat competition and yes sportsmen play to win, not to compete. Whoever said that participation matters, is gravely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I wasn't being sarcastic - I am genuinely appreciating the effort that middle and upper middle class Indian parents put in the education of their children. There are instances when they go overboard' date=' which deserve criticism but I wasn't making that point but as usual you missed the point in your quest for ad hominems. Carry on.[/quote'] Fair enough. Middle class parents do make a lot of sacrifices for the sake of their children's education in Engineering/Medicine etc but that dedication doesn't seem to translate when the child wishes to pursue a career in sports, say. I am not advocating India copying Soviet training methods but the fact that many are content with India not winning enough medals on the excuse that they don't want their athletes to undergo the rigorous training required of Olympic success is abysmal, at best. At present, New Zealand have won more medals in India. The whole country's population is less than half the population of Chennai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 :giggle: @ N Korean example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 LOL@Sree talking about US/China/Russia/North Korea all in the same vein. In the US child abuse is an arrestable crime. No sane US coach will dare who what is being done in the posted videos without risking several years behind bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Exactly! Here are the two perspectives: 1. If a child shows inclination towards excelling in some sport, parents and government try to provide him the best possible environment to show that excellence. 2. The government randomly picks children with certain physical attributes and abilities and forces them to enhance them to get medals. Amazing how people can't see the difference. :wall: And where exactly did you get the idea that Chineese do that to the people. The video only shows a excellent but tough training regime to build champions. Where is it written that random children are picked up and made to go through. What is the criterion for choosing a three year old and know ok this one is good for swimming and this one for gymnastics. Training , proper food and nutrition..alll these costs money . Do you think the Chineese goverment will go through all these for random kids. Have you spoken to any Chineese. I have and they say that most children vie for Olympic Gold and join these schools. these schools are tough and the weak are weeded out. That is how you prepare. Olympic gold is a matter of pride for countries. In India our parents (in general) arent very fond of cricket , leave alone running and gymanstics. bcos there is no money. the case is not so in more athletic oriented countries. Everybody here has just assumed that people are kidnapped from the streets and made to do this. A sickly 5 year old kid is assumed by the Govt to be a future Olympian and then trained and fed...and there are 400000 of these. Come on the Chineese are not that stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Still doesn't entitle sitting on kids and pulling their legs apart. How can you ****ing justify that? Errr, I am not saying India should duplicate that. Whatever gave you that idea? The spirit of the games is participation, goodwill, not about winning medals! If you win, celebrate, you lose, well tried better luck next time. We will not justify picking kids from the street and bend them to get better in Olympics for a dozen medals. Who the **** cares NKorea wins more medals. The populace has no rights, kids are starving and people are destitute. Brilliant! :hysterical: Tell that to the kid who starting training at 9/10 years of age, has to put in 45+ hrs of training of week, had to put things like high school/college on hold etc etc Their whole life's work is to succeed at the Olympics. If you are there just for kicks, stay home next time :winky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 LOL@Sree talking about US/China/Russia/North Korea all in the same vein. In the US child abuse is an arrestable crime. No sane US coach will dare who what is being done in the posted videos without risking several years behind bars. Here you go, a dose of reality. that is part of the training. the person does not sit on the child on the very first day. It is called progressive loading and the human body adapts enabling a person to stretch. It's cut throat competition and yes sportsmen play to win' date=' not to compete. Whoever said that participation matters, is gravely wrong.[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Fair enough. Middle class parents do make a lot of sacrifices for the sake of their children's education in Engineering/Medicine etc but that dedication doesn't seem to translate when the child wishes to pursue a career in sports, say. I am not advocating India copying Soviet training methods but the fact that many are content with India not winning enough medals on the excuse that they don't want their athletes to undergo the rigorous training required of Olympic success is abysmal, at best. At present, New Zealand have won more medals in India. The whole country's population is less than half the population of Chennai. Man, you are giving freaking North Korea as an example in your post! India has it's sporting drawbacks and we are welcome to discuss it in another thread, but as far as this topic is concerned - if given a choice for having my child go through the torture kids in communist countries endure for an Olympic medal and him being a fat lard watching TV and living off my earnings throughout my life I would still choose the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Actually' date=' it might look cruel, but it is not so cruel. When one gets to a point in splits, coaches do put considerable weight to further stretch the tendons. Do that to an adult and you will leave permanent damage, but children have very flexible tendons and ligaments and they can stretch to great lengths against pressure. If you go to martial arts classes in India, even they put pressure by sitting on you to get you the needed flexibility.[/quote'] thank god ..someone knows why it is being done. it is difficult to argue with people who are not aware of training strategies. Btw even as adult you can get into the stretch by a progressive technique...it is possible to do a split at any age.. if you train correctly.its easier as a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 And where exactly did you get the idea that Chineese do that to the people. The video only shows a excellent but tough training regime to build champions. Where is it written that random children are picked up and made to go through. What is the criterion for choosing a three year old and know ok this one is good for swimming and this one for gymnastics. Training , proper food and nutrition..alll these costs money . Do you think the Chineese goverment will go through all these for random kids. Have you spoken to any Chineese. I have and they say that most children vie for Olympic Gold and join these schools. these schools are tough and the weak are weeded out. That is how you prepare. Olympic gold is a matter of pride for countries. In India our parents (in general) arent very fond of cricket , leave alone running and gymanstics. bcos there is no money. the case is not so in more athletic oriented countries. Everybody here has just assumed that people are kidnapped from the streets and made to do this. A sickly 5 year old kid is assumed by the Govt to be a future Olympian and then trained and fed...and there are 400000 of these. Come on the Chineese are not that stupid. Look, you don't believe videos. You won't believe personal anecdotes and experiences I've had from my interaction with the Chinese. If you want to carry on believing the Chinese propaganda, there is nothing I can do to convince you. But I can only laugh at the notion of China being an athletically oriented country like Australia or even the US - their athletic orientation all of a sudden woke up from slumber 30 years back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Ok see this... people suffering from health issues in later stages of their lives, not allowed to see their near & dear ones, mandated to skip dinner for a year to remain thin to create smaller splash in diving...are they not basic human rights abuse? WOfU80Be5pE these are standard training methods followed every where in the world. question is whether the athletes are willing participants or not. If they are willing, they are ready to sacrifice to win a medal. If they are not, then you are right that this is abuse. And people here have just assumed that it is a torture camp where random children are picked up and made to do so. the video is biased western attempt to vilify a country which is kicking their ass. good for china and wish we train as hard as them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Man, you are giving freaking North Korea as an example in your post! India has it's sporting drawbacks and we are welcome to discuss it in another thread, but as far as this topic is concerned - if given a choice for having my child go through the torture kids in communist countries endure for an Olympic medal and him being a fat lard watching TV and living off my earnings throughout my life I would still choose the latter. Mis information at it's best. I said North Korea has more medals. That is factually correct, is it not? I also say India should not copy Soviet/Communist training regimes. Or did you miss that part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 one picture is enough lol..this picture is photoshopped...look at her knee...its another persons knee put into that pic of the crying girl...there is no humanly possible way for the knee to be rotated 180 degrees... just puts the intention of the article and the newspaper which published it into perspective... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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