Congrats Ashwin for maiden 10 wicket haul

[Magneto]

Both of you please go on Rukna mat, I need to stay awake till 5.

[The Outsider]

Oh and since you asked for better pace bowlers than Ishant, Kapil, Srinath, Zaheer are the obvious choices followed by Ghavri. And since you are talking of impact I'll include Chetan Sharma for winning a series in England and Prabhakar for his performance in Pakistan. Sreesanth would also rank above Ishant for winning an overseas test and if I am in a generous mood even Aaag.

[The Outsider]

Does not Perth 07 mean anything to you? What about Kanpur 08? or Galle 08? Or B'lore 08? or Mohali '10? or maybe (Kingston+Bridgetown) '11? Do you think that but for Ishant's spells in all of those series' date=' there's very good chance that we may have lost all of 'em?. Thats 6 test series in the last 4 years dude![/quote'] So of he is such a lethal bowler why does he average 40?

[Ram]

You are completely delusional if you think Ishant was instrumental in winning the Perth test. It was RP Singh and Pathan followed by Kumble. Yeah he's had a few good series. He's not a bad bowler and is bound to have a few good series. But at the end of his career he will not be among the top 5 Indian pacers.

If that spell to Ponting on the morning of day 5 did not happen, we would not be sitting here today talking what a wonderful victory it was. His spell set the stage for the entire bowling unit that day. And Irfan Pathan? Gimme me a break - Yes, he did take out both the openers near the end of day 4, but it was Ishant's spell that completely turned the momentum for us. If anything, I'd say it was VVS+Dhoni's p'ship on day 4 that really even gave us a fighting chance in that test match.

[Ram]

So of he is such a lethal bowler why does he average 40?

Growing pains (Injuries, that subsequently led to a drop in pace) + loss of confidence from being hammered around in IPL on some unbelievable flat-tracks (IPL 08 and 09 were the biggest mistakes of Ishant's life) + lack a genuine reverse swing weapon in his arsenal (that, more than anything else, hurts him in India) + whole hose of other factors. I am not going to sit here and say Ishant is in the league of Anderson and Steyn. But that boy has done a lot for Indian cricket. He may not have the numbers to show for it, but who gives a sh!t for numbers anyway, its the effort and (or) the outcome that matters.

[vvvslaxman]

Ashwin jinxed noe :hitler:

[The Outsider]

If that spell to Ponting on the morning of day 5 did not happen, we would not be sitting here today talking what a wonderful victory it was. His spell set the stage for the entire bowling unit that day. And Irfan Pathan? Gimme me a break - Yes, he did take out both the openers near the end of day 4, but it was Ishant's spell that completely turned the momentum for us. If anything, I'd say it was VVS+Dhoni's p'ship on day 4 that really even gave us a fighting chance in that test match.

Yeah the Man of the Match did jack and Ishant won us the test. Keep going. I am enjoying this. Ishant's spell to Ponting was really great fast bowling, but his over all contribution was way behind Pathan and RP Singh.

[Ram]

Oh and since you asked for better pace bowlers than Ishant' date=' Kapil, Srinath, Zaheer are the obvious choices followed by Ghavri. And since you are talking of impact I'll include Chetan Sharma for winning a series in England and Prabhakar for his performance in Pakistan. Sreesanth would also rank above Ishant for winning an overseas test and if I am in a generous mood even Aaag.[/quote'] Rating Prabhakar/Chetan Sharma/Agarkar above Ishant. :hysterical:

[Trichromatic]

I am not stupid enough to judge our pacers by their numbers (Case in point - Zak's performance in the first test against NZ. He bowled 24 overs without no wicket). I dont expect our pacers to by ripping thru opposition batsmen for figures of 5-60 at home. Their job is to take the occasional wicket with the new ball (preferably), but more than anything else, come to the party when the old ball starts reversing. In those circumstances, your ultimate numbers are not going to look flattering, but you would have had a very vital role to play in our team's success.

Don't you expect more than 17 wickets from your best available pacer in 10 tests (7 played in helpful conditions?)? I haven't seen such poor performance from any pacer in favorable conditions in my life.

[The Outsider]

Growing pains (Injuries, that subsequently led to a drop in pace) + loss of confidence from being hammered around in IPL on some unbelievable flat-tracks (IPL 08 and 09 were the biggest mistakes of Ishant's life) + lack a genuine reverse swing weapon in his arsenal (that, more than anything else, hurts him in India) + whole hose of other factors. I am not going to sit here and say Ishant is in the league of Anderson and Steyn. But that boy has done a lot for Indian cricket. He may not have the numbers to show for it, but who gives a sh!t for numbers anyway, its the effort and (or) the outcome that matters.

Your first paragraph exemplifies why he is crap.

[The Outsider]

Rating Prabhakar/Chetan Sharma/Agarkar above Ishant. :hysterical:

Why not? If you are judging on one off performances all of them have done better than Ishant.

[Trichromatic]

Ashwin jinxed noe :hitler:

I'm requesting again to mods. Please change the title to the one I originally gave.

[Magneto]

I'm requesting again to mods. Please change the title to the one I originally gave.

He cannot be jinxed against sides like NZ and Eng. I guess the Aussie series will be the beginning of the jinx :giggle:

[Ram]

Your first paragraph exemplifies why he is crap.

If Ishant is 'C-R-A-P', your benchmark for what is good must be really high.

[Trichromatic]

If Ishant is 'C-R-A-P'' date=' your benchmark for what is good must be really high.[/quote'] Ripping opposition at home and taking 5-60 might not be the benchmark, but expecting half decent performance from a pacer is away matches in certainly a benchmark. If anything Ishant has actually done way better at home than he did in away matches.

[Ram]

Don't you expect more than 17 wickets from your best available pacer in 10 tests (7 played in helpful conditions?)? I haven't seen such poor performance from any pacer in favorable conditions in my life.

Yea he was disappointing in Australia and England, but so were most of our players anyway. Again, I am not here to make excuses for his mediocrity in the recent past. All I am saying is that he does not remotely get the credit he deserves for what he has already done for us. And I say that as an Indian fan who has watched a parade absolutely useless Indian seamers (Dodda Ganesh, Thriru Kumaran, David Johnson, Paras Mhambrey, Abey Kuruvilla, Iqbal Siqqiqui etc) come and go by right in front of my eyes.

[The Outsider]

If Ishant is 'C-R-A-P'' date=' your benchmark for what is good must be really high.[/quote'] It's certainly better than singing choirs for someone averaging 40 after 45 tests!

[Trichromatic]

Yea he was disappointing in Australia and England, but so were most of our players anyway. Again, I am not here to make excuses for his mediocrity in the recent past. All I am saying is that he does not remotely get the credit he deserves for what he has already done for us. And I say that as an Indian fan who has watched a parade absolutely useless Indian seamers (Dodda Ganesh, Thriru Kumaran, David Johnson, Paras Mhambrey, Abey Kuruvilla, Iqbal Siqqiqui etc) come and go by right in front of my eyes.

He has played 45 matches at the age of 23. I don't think there can be bigger credit for a bowler who fails consistently. He actually gets more credit than he should get. Yes, we have useless seamers in past, but that doesn't make him good or even useful for Indian bowling line-up either.

[deathmonger]

ishant will recover and become world's best fast bowler. ashwin will become better than murali. harmeet singh is next bishen bedi. aparajith will become ashwin 2.0 which in turn is muralitharan 3.0. kohli,rahane,pujara will all avg 50+. umesh yadav will become world class fast bowler and become steyn duplicate. zaheer khan will play another 6 years avging 22 for those 6 yrs. shami ahmed is also next steyn and will become atg. nohit will rediscover form and become srt v2.0. india will field two parallel teams and beat england and oz overseas at the same time. :finger:

[Trichromatic]

^ where is wicketkeeper?