Dhoni should be sacked as captain in all 3 formats!

[rkt.india]

So' date=' you agree that the Mohali pitch suited bowlers more than Kotla in that series - that was all the initial point being made was. For the purpose of this discussion I don't see how it's relevant whether the ground or pitch helps reverse swing. The only point being made was that in 2008 Mohali offered more to the bowlers than Kotla. And you just need to watch day 4 of each test to see the difference.[/quote'] Dont forget, pitch is same for both the teams and my argument was not just about Mohali. I had included Nagpur in it as well. Even in Bengalore, pitch had help for our bowlers, but we struggled big time there. Is it not just about help in the pitch, not how they used that help.

[Raghav_12]

So now a purist cares about T20 more than test matches! We won against NZ without so called budhaoos but you did not mentioned that. Losing 2 test series should be enough to remove the captain who led us to no.1 rankings? If you are blaming MS for the losses, fine but then he should also be given credit for the wins.

you have to bring India's is test win over mighty NZ on home pitches shows how bereft of any credible argument you are. Let me know how many instances are there when India lost a home test series to NZ , in entire cricketing history? Also can you say honestly that India would have lost this series without Dhoni or Dhoni capataincy. Stop making these stupid statements that Dhoni took India to no. 1 ranking. India was ranked no 3 when Dhoni took over and now he took us to situation that only test powerhouses like SL, WI, NZ and Bangladesh are behind us.

[ganeshran]

Tumne to dil pe le liya yaar. "Non Test calibre" players should be compared to the available benchmarks and in one of the threads, it had already been established by you that both Mongia and More were better than Dhoni, hence the comparison.

Maine kahan dil pe liya :dontknow: Can you quote the post where I said both Mongia and More are better test batsmen than Dhoni? Otherwise this is just a strawman that Dhoni bhakts have created to deflect any criticism of his batting. Like I said, its just like bringing up Akash Chopra and Wasim Jaffer when you criticize Sehwag :giggle:

[Crookbond]

We struggled to win the Test Series against NZ in 2010 and won just one game in the series (Tests + ODIs) previous to that at home - if anyone was watching those i.e.

[The Outsider]

Dont forget' date=' pitch is same for both the teams and my argument was not just about Mohali. I had included Nagpur in it as well. Even in Bengalore, pitch had help for our bowlers, but we struggled big time there. Is it not just about help in the pitch, not how they used that help.[/quote'] I don't believe you watched that series and are making such statements. Nagpur was turning from day one. Krejza was getting it to turn even before lunch on day 1 when he got Sehwag and Dravid. You are totally discounting the fact that the Indian batting line up was at the top of their game during that series and when guys of that caliber are playing well they are obviously going to score runs in any conditions. Yeah, Bangalore had help for the bowlers but we had a first innings collapse there and failed to get a par score. It just doesn't make sense to say Dhoni is a great captain because we won 2 tests and Kumble is not because we drew two tests. You have to look at the reasons behind the results. And Nagpur, I would agree that Dhoni played a big part in the win with his captaincy. But to say we would have won at Bangalore and Kotla as well doesn't make sense. Anyhow, that is from 4 years back. I would love to have Dhoni captain the way he did at Nagpur, but he is past it now. And that is the point of discussion. Not his past achievements but his future as captain of the side.

[Crookbond]

Common guys list down options to Dhoni for Test cricket. :cheer: Bob the builder karke ke dikhaaayenge! :diablo:

[Lord]

We struggled to win the Test Series against NZ in 2010 and won just one game in the series (Tests + ODIs) previous to that at home - if anyone was watching those i.e.

under the leadership of?:--D

[Lord]

Common guys list down options to Dhoni for Test cricket. :cheer: Bob the builder karke ke dikhaaayenge! :diablo:

Virat n Sehwag

[Crookbond]

under the leadership of?:--D

MS Dhoni - I am just mentioning the facts. Just like, he's not performing in T20s and should not be the captain and probably not be part of the team as well. But, at the same time let us not create 2 + 2 =5 situation. It's like one of those instances where you do not appreciate what you have and want to 'jump'. Some people are making it sound that home win against NZ is halwa. Come to think of it, even in the 1999 series against NZ we struggled to get past them in Test matches.

[rkt.india]

I don't believe you watched that series and are making such statements. Nagpur was turning from day one. Krejza was getting it to turn even before lunch on day 1 when he got Sehwag and Dravid. You are totally discounting the fact that the Indian batting line up was at the top of their game during that series and when guys of that caliber are playing well they are obviously going to score runs in any conditions. Yeah, Bangalore had help for the bowlers but we had a first innings collapse there and failed to get a par score. It just doesn't make sense to say Dhoni is a great captain because we won 2 tests and Kumble is not because we drew two tests. You have to look at the reasons behind the results. And Nagpur, I would agree that Dhoni played a big part in the win with his captaincy. But to say we would have won at Bangalore and Kotla as well doesn't make sense. Anyhow, that is from 4 years back. I would love to have Dhoni captain the way he did at Nagpur, but he is past it now. And that is the point of discussion. Not his past achievements but his future as captain of the side.

At one time, on a turning pitch, Aussie were 189/1 in 35 overs in their first innings when we got out of 355 in our first innings. and the bold part is what I wanted to see. So you agree that Indian batting was at the top at that time and Dhoni did not have to do much to win those tests. Now apply the same on 8-0 loss where our batting was at its worst and Dhoni had to everything.

[Crookbond]

Virat n Sehwag

As WK - pagla gaya hai kya? As captain too early for Virat and Sehwag is more OUT than IN

[Crookbond]

At one time, on a turning pitch, Aussie were 189/1 in 35 overs in their first innings when we got out of 355 in our first innings. and the bold part is what I wanted to see. So you agree that Indian batting was at the top at that time and Dhoni did not have to do much to win those tests. Now apply the same on 8-0 loss where our batting was at its worst and Dhoni had to everything.

Must say well played :hatsoff:

[Lord]

As WK - pagla gaya hai kya? As captain too early for Virat and Sehwag is more OUT than IN

I meant Virat for T20/ODIs n Sehwag for tests.I dont see Sehwag's position under threat,the most we can think of is dropping him down the order.have him for a couple of years before it is not too early for Virat. I think Virat is ready now,but lets leave it:--D

[The Outsider]

At one time, on a turning pitch, Aussie were 189/1 in 35 overs in their first innings when we got out of 355 in our first innings.

And I've credited Dhoni for it. However, that was 4 years back. Do you see that kind of captaincy from Dhoni today?

and the bold part is what I wanted to see. So you agree that Indian batting was at the top at that time and Dhoni did not have to do much to win those tests. Now apply the same on 8-0 loss where our batting was at its worst and Dhoni had to everything.

We've toured with worse batting and bowling attacks(form wise, not on paper) during my days of watching cricket and have never been hammered 0-8. The Lords' and Nottingham tests in England and the Melbourne and Perth tests in Australia could have had different results with a better captain, not all of them but it could have been 2-6 or 1-6 with a better captain.

[CG]

Its just damn shocking people have changed their tunes so much,The same guys where hammering dhoni .

[rkt.india]

And I've credited Dhoni for it. However, that was 4 years back. Do you see that kind of captaincy from Dhoni today? We've toured with worse batting and bowling attacks(form wise, not on paper) during my days of watching cricket and have never been hammered 0-8. The Lords' and Nottingham tests in England and the Melbourne and Perth tests in Australia could have had different results with a better captain, not all of them but it could have been 2-6 or 1-6 with a better captain.

I dont see that captaincy from Dhoni now and that is why I want a new captain but I dont see a better option. Thing is people are so quick to dismiss his achievements saying that was because he had great players in the team that is the only issue I have. He is not good enough right now because he takes unusual decisions, unusual tactics, have been stubborn sometimes, that are not paying off, but he was always like that, but those things paid off then. He has mostly been instinctive, less tactical. He has never been bowler's captain, especially, he rarely gave any advice or confidence to young fast bowlers. We can barely say we developed this fast bowler during his captaincy because he is least concerned about that. He is the kind of captain who will handle what he has at his disposal happily rather than developing anyone out of the scene. Regarding, 8-0, I think these 8 tests were our worst batting performance overseas in last 20 years.

[Crookbond]

I dont see that captaincy from Dhoni now and that is why I want a new captain but I dont see a better option. Thing is people are so quick to dismiss his achievements saying that was because he had great players in the team that is the only issue I have. He is not good enough right now because he takes unusual decisions, unusual tactics, have been stubborn sometimes, that are not paying off, but he was always like that, but those things paid off then. He has mostly been instinctive, less tactical. He has never been bowler's captain, especially, he rarely gave any advice or confidence to young fast bowlers. We can barely say we developed this fast bowler during his captaincy because he is least concerned about that. He is the kind of captain who will handle what he has at his disposal happily rather than developing anyone out of the scene. Regarding, 8-0, I think these 8 tests were our worst batting performance overseas in last 20 years.

Nothing explains Dhoni better than this. Good post! :two_thumbs_up:

[someone]

We have a situation here where many Indian fans just want the team to fail so they can say Dhoni needs to leave. We have a situation where whenever we win, it is seen as assumed and nothing worth to praise ( eg. posts on how Indian home performances should not matter). We have plenty of glory hunters then whom fail to see any progress and instead just want all the glory. With these kind of attitude, what the use of changing the captain? Suppose under a new captain, we can out in the Super 8s, will we need to change the captain again? That's Pakistan logic and really stupid indeed.

[Lord]

^I agree that those denying Dhoni's achievements prior to 2011 WC are idiots,but its been a fair time since then n we have gone down,hence the calls.why would we want team to lose?its not about Dhoni,its about wats best for Indian cricket,n no u cant think wat'll happen even if we lose under new captain,u dont stop walking on the road for the fear of accidents,have to take the chance,under Dhoni,there doesnt seem to be any chance of revival,its only gonna continue. lastly,Pakistan logic for T20s is not all that stupid,they've made to 4 consecutive semis with that.

[Yoda-esque]

We have a situation here where many Indian fans just want the team to fail so they can say Dhoni needs to leave. We have a situation where whenever we win' date= it is seen as assumed and nothing worth to praise ( eg. posts on how Indian home performances should not matter). We have plenty of glory hunters then whom fail to see any progress and instead just want all the glory. With these kind of attitude, what the use of changing the captain? Suppose under a new captain, we can out in the Super 8s, will we need to change the captain again? That's Pakistan logic and really stupid indeed.

Truer words have never been spoken :giggle: