Crookbond Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 The problem I have with Israel is that they are pretty much invaders. I think the vast majority of them are not native to the land and are from central and Eastern Europe from countries like Germany, Poland, Ukraine, Russia. It's no different to the British taking over India or the British in America. Most of the Israelis do not look middle eastern so what right do they to be there? Just because it was the centre of their religion thousands of years ago? I doubt that they are the same ethnicity as the jews who lived there in ancient times. That's like Buddhists from Thailand taking over North East India and Nepal because that is where Buddha and Asoka were from. The only solution to this now is to create a separate country for the Palestinians. :facepalm: You've got to draw the line somewhere. Israel is a sovereign nation in the modern world and it is better to respect it. Once people start to think like you do is when all the problems start - we occupied this land 1000 years ago, we came first- you came last, GOD has blessed us to go & get our land.
ravishingravi Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 :facepalm: You've got to draw the line somewhere. Israel is a sovereign nation in the modern world and it is better to respect it. Once people start to think like you do is when all the problems start - we occupied this land 1000 years ago, we came first- you came last, GOD has blessed us to go & get our land. So you draw the line on indigenous population living there and make them second rated citizens living in "open prisons" As Chomsky calls it in Gaza. Things are lot more complicated than make love not war.
Crookbond Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 So you draw the line on indigenous population living there and make them second rated citizens living in "open prisons" As Chomsky calls it in Gaza. Things are lot more complicated than make love not war. Sir, You have got to find an amicable solution by sitting across and making some compromises (stress on this word). IDK the exact solution to a complicated problem but if there's one thing which our 2000 year old civilization(s) have taught us is that - War does NOT lead to a solution. It only increases problem. I doubt there is a single instance in the history of the world where war has bought any peace or prosperity. On the contrary, war multiplies and soon we will have neighbors across apartments using rocket launchers to justify their "holy land".
Ranvir Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 :facepalm: You've got to draw the line somewhere. Israel is a sovereign nation in the modern world and it is better to respect it. Once people start to think like you do is when all the problems start - we occupied this land 1000 years ago, we came first- you came last, GOD has blessed us to go & get our land. Yes but the way it was formed is not right at all, putting people who have no connection to a land and letting them take it over from the native population is not on! Sure they could immigrate there and live alongside the Palestinians if they wanted to but not completely take it over with the help of America and Britain.
Crookbond Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 Yes but the way it was formed is not right at all' date=' putting people who have no connection to a land and letting them take it over from the native population is not on! Sure they could immigrate there and live alongside the Palestinians if they wanted to but not completely take it over with the help of America and Britain.[/quote'] I agree to your point - but how to solve it? The best way I see it is to make it no man's land.
ganeshran Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 The undisputed territories must be carved into a separate nation for Palestine and status quo being maintained in disputed territories with no additional settlements from both sides. The reason Israel doesn't want to compromise with Palestine is because it sees no strategic advantage in doing so.
Ranvir Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 I agree to your point - but how to solve it? The best way I see it is to make it no man's land. Well now that the Jewish people are there it should be split up. But split up properly, Jewish people only in Israel and Muslims only in Palestine. Just like India should have been partitioned. Muslims only in Pakistan and Bangladesh. Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists and Christians only in India. No one can live side by side peacefully with Muslims IMO.
bangladeshifan Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 Well now that the Jewish people are there it should be split up. But split up properly, Jewish people only in Israel and Muslims only in Palestine. Just like India should have been partitioned. Muslims only in Pakistan and Bangladesh. Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists and Christians only in India. No one can live side by side peacefully with Muslims IMO. muslims nd jews were living peacefully side by side in palestine before the creation of israel. jews ppl used to go to mosque nd pray if no sangayet was available in the area. they still do in african countries like morocco. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVEt-hOQytQ]Jews and Muslims pray together at SAFI - YouTube[/ame]
Ranvir Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 muslims nd jews were living peacefully side by side in palestine before the creation of israel. jews ppl used to go to mosque nd pray if no sangayet was available in the area. they still do in african countries like morocco. Yes they were living together peacefully, probably because the British who ruled the area kept things in order, just like in India before partition. Then when they left all hell broke loose.
bangladeshifan Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 Yes they were living together peacefully' date=' probably because the British who ruled the area kept things in order, just like in India before partition. Then when they left [b']all hell broke loose. yes it hpnd only bcs of those bloody muslims isnt it
Ranvir Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 yes it hpnd only bcs of those bloody muslims isnt it No if you read my earlier posts you will see that I said it was wrong for Israel to be created in the first place because the majority of the jewish people are not indigenous to that land, they are mostly of European descent so they shouldn't be there in the first place. Some cultures just can't live side by side.
bangladeshifan Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 No if you read my earlier posts you will see that I said it was wrong for Israel to be created in the first place because the majority of the jewish people are not indigenous to that land, they are mostly of European descent so they shouldn't be there in the first place. Some cultures just can't live side by side. No one can live side by side peacefully with Muslims IMO. two very different statements. i read ur earlier posts nd i have no comment against em. just cudnt agreee wiv this line
Sooda Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 I dont know how much Hamas are to blame for the recent shelling in Israel. They have largely stuck to the ceasefire and in fact the situation in Gaza has improved since a few years ago...employment has risen and contsruction industry improving... there are numerous little groups who fire rockets over and these guys are hard to control...Islamic Jihad etc...not to mention the fact that these groups are popular with palestinians and Hamas dont want to seem to be cracking down too hard, so their at fault on that score... but Hamas know firing missiles over is fraught with peril given Israels relative military might ..also on that note Ahmed al jaabri was a guy who role was to ensure the ceasefire was adhered to...
Sooda Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 Yes they were living together peacefully' date=' probably because the British who ruled the area kept things in order, just like in India before partition. Then when they left all hell broke loose.[/quote'] Actually towards the end when they knew they were leaving the Mandate with the Partition Plan agreed...a civil war erupted between Arabs and Jews in the late 1940's and the Brits did fakall, let them kill each other because it was not going to be a British problem for long
Lurker Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 Will this ever end. Perhaps never. Both sides don't trust each other and both sides have equal amounts of cheerleader to keep fueling this hatred. Funny thing, this Monday I was attending a seminar on Corporate Trust (basically about how Enron, WorldComm etc have screwed the trust notion), and the instructor brought out his issues during travel to Israel. Longer checks, more security restrictions, essentially doubling cost and effort. He was apolitical of course but his larger point was how lack of trust ends up making things costly for everyone. It is weird that some of us tend to use that as success of some sorts and even model for our nation.
Swing_n_Speed Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 but Hamas know firing missiles over is fraught with peril given Israels relative military might ..also on that note Ahmed al jaabri was a guy who role was to ensure the ceasefire was adhered to... I'm impressed Sooda, you are one of the few guys here who knows what they are talking about. The rest (namely De....) read two lines and bark out 5.
Swing_n_Speed Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 When 100's of rockets/missiles are firing at your towns, Israel had no other choice but to attack. I only hope that the civilian casualties on both sides are bare minimum. Post this conflict, Israel needs to realize that the status-quo will not work. Post conflict this is what Israel needs to do:- -Israel needs to stop expanding and stop building settlements. -Secondly Israel needs to come up with some sort of road-map for Gaza. You cannot keep them living like prisoners forever. This would be a great start for peace. A road-map is critical at this juncture. A roadmap, with stringent conditions both sides adhere to. Even with a road-map, I'm pretty sure the Palestinians would screw things up, but nonetheless, let there be a direction towards peace. -And most importantly, the world needs to stand up for Israel-Iran relations. Foreign policy in Western countries is dominated by retards, who are adept at making things worse. I wouldn't be surprised if Hamas is getting all these missiles from Libya. And who armed the Libyan rebels in the first place? -Israel-Iran are natural allies. I just cannot comprehend why the two are fighting. Maybe it's time for mediators from India, Scandinavia and some other saner countries to stand up for world peace. For this situation(the conflict in the whole region, from Syria, to Bahrain etc) to resolve it is absolutely imperative for Iran-Israel ties to improve.
Ranvir Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 No one can live side by side peacefully with Muslims IMO. two very different statements. i read ur earlier posts nd i have no comment against em. just cudnt agreee wiv this line Look at the demographics of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. The number of non Muslims in Pakistan and Bangladesh is always decreasing. You hardly ever hear stories about Muslims from India fleeing to Pakistan or Bangladesh.
Number Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 When 100's of rockets/missiles are firing at your towns, Israel had no other choice but to attack. As much I feel bad for innocents getting injured, killed in Gaza, if you fire 700+ rockets in a year towards Israel who has a lot many times bigger firepower than you, then it's stupidity.
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