urbestfriend Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 All those shedding fake tears for killing of Ishrat Jehan , why don't they shed their tear against killing of 8 innocent villagers by CRPF. Same CRPF killed 15 villagers last year and found them innocent later. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/chhattisgarh-encounter-leaves-8-villagers-dead-no-maoist-link-yet/1117765/0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 All those shedding fake tears for killing of Ishrat Jehan , why don't they shed their tear against killing of 8 innocent villagers by CRPF. Same CRPF killed 15 villagers last year and found them innocent later. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/chhattisgarh-encounter-leaves-8-villagers-dead-no-maoist-link-yet/1117765/0 Just because there is lesser discussion on other extra judicial killings does not mean people are fine with them, at least I am not. Some cases get more attention and discussion in the media and the population - that's a fact. It's like saying people were shedding fake tears for the Delhi rape case victim and are not shedding tears for the thousands of other rapes that happen in the country. Makes absolutely zero sense and is nothing but a red herring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Now tell me one regime in India under which extra judicial killing didn't happen? Routinely police use encounter to kill local rowdies let alone a terrorist..Are you too dumb to understand that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Now tell me one regime in India under which extra judicial killing didn't happen? Routinely police use encounter to kill local rowdies let alone a terrorist..Are you too dumb to understand that? Now tell me one regime under which rapes did not happen? Routinely girls get raped in India, but poor Delhi police and administration and poor Sheila Dixit and poor Sonia Gandhi and poor Manmohan Singh were targeted unfairly by media and public for the Delhi rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi B Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Now tell me one regime under which rapes did not happen? Routinely girls get raped in India' date=' but poor Delhi police and administration and poor Sheila Dixit and poor Sonia Gandhi and poor Manmohan Singh were targeted unfairly by media and public for the Delhi rape.[/quote'] :facepalm: unneccsessary just to prove ur point is valid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 :facepalm: unneccsessary just to prove ur point is valid Care to elaborate what's unnecessary? Right from the onset, Modi fanboyzzz have taken the stance that extra judicial killings are commonplace and the only reason for such hype around the Ishrat Jahan case is that the media is using it to target Modi. Well rapes are also commonplace, so was the media targeting Sheila Dixit and Sonia Gandhi in the Delhi rape case? No. Some issues receive more prominence that others. The Delhi rape case received such prominence because of it's gruesome nature, and served as a trigger. Similarly, the Ishrat Jahan case is receiving more prominence because: 1. The level of involvement from the police is not some chindi sub inspector, but all the way up to the Director of the IB. 2. The DIG accused of carrying it out has already been convicted in another fake encounter case. 3. Modi's right hand man is an accused in the other fake encounter case in which the DIG was convicted. 4. The IB chief was in constant touch with the CMO the day of the encounter. 5. Ishrat's guilt is far from proven. This isn't your average extra judicial killing because of the level of involvement of real bigwigs, and points to fascist way of functioning of the Gujarat government, not some two bit sub inspector unloading bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi B Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Care to elaborate what's unnecessary? Right from the onset, Modi fanboyzzz have taken the stance that extra judicial killings are commonplace and the only reason for such hype around the Ishrat Jahan case is that the media is using it to target Modi. Well rapes are also commonplace, so was the media targeting Sheila Dixit and Sonia Gandhi in the Delhi rape case? No. Some issues receive more prominence that others. The Delhi rape case received such prominence because of it's gruesome nature, and served as a trigger. Similarly, the Ishrat Jahan case is receiving more prominence because: 1. The level of involvement from the police is not some chindi sub inspector, but all the way up to the Director of the IB. 2. The DIG accused of carrying it out has already been convicted in another fake encounter case. 3. Modi's right hand man is an accused in the other fake encounter case in which the DIG was convicted. 4. The IB chief was in constant touch with the CMO the day of the encounter. 5. Ishrat's guilt is far from proven. This isn't your average extra judicial killing because of the level of involvement of real bigwigs, and points to fascist way of functioning of the Gujarat government, not some two bit sub inspector unloading bullets. i understand what u wanted to say but no need to bring a different topic(like rapes ,which is a sensitive issue) to derive an analogy,rather dont answer him else the discussion will go longer and get deflected off the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Now tell me one regime in India under which extra judicial killing didn't happen? Routinely police use encounter to kill local rowdies let alone a terrorist..Are you too dumb to understand that? While its true that police routinely used to 'encounter' gangsters in Mumbai in the 90s and early 2000s, it is unheard that the director of the IB calls the Chief Minister's Office umpteen number of time on the day (on which the Gujarat police claims) the encounter took place. Why should they be in touch with the CMO? What do you have to say on that? Besides, just because extra judicial killings have happened in the past, it doesn't excuse this one. There are two distinct issues here 1) Whether or not Ishrat was a terrorist/ complicit in a plot to attack India. The evidence presented by the various Government bodies, Headley and her accomplices surely paints her guilty. 2) Whether or not the encounter was genuine. Lets not mix the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Now tell me one regime under which rapes did not happen? Routinely girls get raped in India' date=' but poor Delhi police and administration and poor Sheila Dixit and poor Sonia Gandhi and poor Manmohan Singh were targeted unfairly by media and public for the Delhi rape.[/quote']Wasn't really the media, but the people of Delhi who came out to protest. I don't see the people of Gujarat coming out to protest in droves like in Delhi against the Gujarat govt. So this is comparing apples and oranges. I think the concern is more about how the investigation is being handled. One of the officers investigating the case has been nominated by the family of Ishrat Jahan and is already himself under investigation for false encounters. The NIA and CBI also misled the court about the testimony of David Headley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 While its true that police routinely used to 'encounter' gangsters in Mumbai in the 90s and early 2000s, it is unheard that the director of the IB calls the Chief Minister's Office umpteen number of time on the day (on which the Gujarat police claims) the encounter took place. Why should they be in touch with the CMO? What do you have to say on that? Besides, just because extra judicial killings have happened in the past, it doesn't excuse this one. There are two distinct issues here 1) Whether or not Ishrat was a terrorist/ complicit in a plot to attack India. The evidence presented by the various Government bodies, Headley and her accomplices surely paints her guilty. 2) Whether or not the encounter was genuine. Lets not mix the two.The IB official had intelligence about the CM's life being in threat.The intercepted tapes show that the terrorists had decided to target the Chief Minister. I think it is natural for the IB official to be in touch with the CMO given that the intelligence was about a threat to his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The option was simple and harsh' date=' no negotiations with terrorists. It was on a similar ground I voted for them but when it came down to actions they were as big as hijdaas you can find.[/quote'] Just 1 question, if your family would have been on IC 814 would you have said same thing .Be harsh and no negotiations with terrorists even if my all near and dear ones get killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 For others, the it's equally important whether the state machinery was used to carry out extra judicial killings and whether the chief minister was aware of them or involved in them. The two issues are not linked and extra judicial killings are a cornerstone of every fascist regime in history. Today they might be used against terrorists (even assuming Ishrat was one), tomorrow they will be used against political opponents, and then against the common man. You love the word fascist, everything is fascist for you? Surely, you can leave your opinion to yourself and not mix that in this thread. Don't try to make this case exclusive as there are tons of cases which you can worry about as well and also thus mention their "facist" regime. Ishrat being innocent or terrorist is the first issue as security, intelligence, institutions can never be compromised for politics gain. Huge implications there and as mentioned earlier, the new evidence suggests a great cover up and misuse led by the central "facist" government as you would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Wasn't really the media, but the people of Delhi who came out to protest. I don't see the people of Gujarat coming out to protest in droves like in Delhi against the Gujarat govt. So this is comparing apples and oranges. Wasn't the media? Everything is available on the net - a quick search can reveal the number of articles on it before the first protest. Here is the ICF thread created way before any protests which has many hundred posts and many media articles in it before the protests: http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=291587 And what's your point about people coming out in droves? Should only those injustices be discussed for which people come out in droves? I think the concern is more about how the investigation is being handled. One of the officers investigating the case has been nominated by the family of Ishrat Jahan and is already himself under investigation for false encounters. The NIA and CBI also misled the court about the testimony of David Headley. Yeah, 17 years after the alleged incident the Gujarat government investigates him when he has been rubbing the government the wrong way - and you are concerned about how the investigation is being handled. Hats off! Misled the court? Just because IB says so and are the ones under the pump you take them at face value? You are concerned about the investigation, but are not concerned about the fact that Kodnani and Kumar were making dozens of calls to Modi's office the day of the crimes? Not concerned about the fact that a DIG has already been convicted for a fake encounter? Not concerned that he was linked with Modi's right hand man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Just 1 question' date=' if your family would have been on IC 814 would you have said same thing .Be harsh and no negotiations with terrorists even if my all near and dear ones get killed[/quote'] And that is why justice and such decisions are not left to the ones effected by events personally. If that were the case even thefts, assault, and robbery would lead to capital punishment. That is the reason justice is carried out by the state and not effected individuals who would be emotionally swayed by the situation. And now to flip it around, what would these people who got their family members released in lieu of terrorists say to the families of the hundreds or thousands of family members of people who were killed by these terrorists after they were released. That my blood is greater than yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 You love the word fascist, everything is fascist for you? Surely, you can leave your opinion to yourself and not mix that in this thread. Don't try to make this case exclusive as there are tons of cases which you can worry about as well and also thus mention their "facist" regime. Ishrat being innocent or terrorist is the first issue as security, intelligence, institutions can never be compromised for politics gain. Huge implications there and as mentioned earlier, the new evidence suggests a great cover up and misuse led by the central "facist" government as you would say. The court says it's a non issue. The court says to feck the fact whether she was a terrorist or not and get on with investigating the extra judicial killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 The court says it's a non issue. The court says to feck the fact whether she was a terrorist or not and get on with investigating the extra judicial killing. Nope. the court and even the CBI has said everything will need and have to reexamined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The IB official had intelligence about the CM's life being in threat.The intercepted tapes show that the terrorists had decided to target the Chief Minister. I think it is natural for the IB official to be in touch with the CMO given that the intelligence was about a threat to his life. That is a fair explanation. Did the IB uncover the plot just before the encounter was going on? When did they get wind of the entire operation? Just playing the devils advocate: Given that the 4 had driven from Mumbai, why wasn't the information shared with Maharashtra Police and why didn't they intercept the vehicle before it crossed over into Gujarat? Cars from Maharashtra are routinely checked on entering Gujarat. Mainly because Gujarat has prohibition, and alcohol is confiscated before one enters the state. The police claim one of the 4 was carrying an AK 56. It would be strange if 4 of them managed to enter the state unchecked (apparently, after an IB intel input) and not raise any eyebrows and get as far as Ahmedabad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Why only THIS so called fake encounter is being investigated so earnestly by CBI and also the Gujju High Court? For example, UP tops the list in fake encounters...followed by Bihar... http://twocircles.net/2010mar26/uttar_pradesh_top_fake_encounter_specialist_india.html Will the Central Angency investigate all the controversial Fake Encounters now? I hope so... PS: Don't shoot me for posting a random link. I've no idea if the data is true or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Given that the 4 had driven from Mumbai, why wasn't the information shared with Maharashtra Police and why didn't they intercept the vehicle before it crossed over into Gujarat? The entire thing is a pack of lies. Initially, the Gujarat police had claimed that they got the information about them from Bombay police, but when Bombay police denied sharing or having any such information they went completely silent on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Nope. the court and even the CBI has said everything will need and have to reexamined. Tell me what you make of it: Last week, the judges said to the CBI, "The court is not concerned whether they were terrorists or normal human beings." They also said, "You (CBI) have been assigned the responsibility to ascertain whether they were killed in a genuine encounter or a fake one, and whether they were in prior custody of Gujarat police or not." http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/ishrat-jahan-case-cbi-told-to-file-chargesheet-by-july-4-381142 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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