Brainfade Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Like I've postd many times on this board, the only way to stop gun violence is to confiscate all guns. Just making them illegal (like in Conn. or California) or requiring background checks is not going to work because criminals and crazies will find a way to bring guns in and use them for violent acts. That said, when I see stuff like this, it sways me a bit to the other side. If this woman had a gun, the thug would have stood no chance. http://www.courierpostonline.com/viewart/20130625/NEWS02/306250043/VIDEO-N-J-home-invasion-attack-caught-nanny-camera The video is pretty graphic. I am not sure how to embed it directly.
CSK Fan Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Surely regulating sales of bullets will also make illegal guns obsolete?
Brainfade Posted June 26, 2013 Author Posted June 26, 2013 Surely regulating sales of bullets will also make illegal guns obsolete? Would it have stopped Adam Lanza?
CSK Fan Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Would it have stopped Adam Lanza? Might not. But it will stop many other incidents in a country obsessed with a killing machine
Brainfade Posted June 26, 2013 Author Posted June 26, 2013 Might not. But it will stop many other incidents in a country obsessed with a killing machine So, do you think the woman in the video should've been allowed to own a gun? And given a limited number of bullets?
coffee_rules Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 How will a gun help in this case? I f somebody jumps into the house like that, she will not have time to reach for the gun. If she keeps the gun so accessibly, then it can be reached by kids and that is how kids are dying in tragic accidents these days. How does a gun help unless one wears it on them like cops do. This is a BS argument.
Brainfade Posted June 26, 2013 Author Posted June 26, 2013 How will a gun help in this case? I f somebody jumps into the house like that' date=' she will not have time to reach for the gun. If she keeps the gun so accessibly, then it can be reached by kids and [b']that is how kids are dying in tragic accidents these days. How does a gun help unless one wears it on them like cops do. This is a BS argument. Would you elaborate on the bold-faced part? Maybe a link to some data? As for this particular case, I see your point. Unless she had it in a holster, there was no point. Even so, it may have been too late.
Brainfade Posted June 26, 2013 Author Posted June 26, 2013 coffee, Let me ask you then - what do you think the solution is? Would you agree with my stance that all guns must be confiscated? Obviously, banning them some states does not stop mass killings (e.g., Conn. and CA have some of the toughest gun control laws and this where the latest mass killings happened). People can buy a gun in one state (where it's legal) and bring it to another because there is no enforcement.
Brainfade Posted June 26, 2013 Author Posted June 26, 2013 Interesting npr article on gun crime http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/05/07/181998015/rate-of-u-s-gun-violence-has-fallen-since-1993-study-says Rate Of U.S. Gun Violence Has Fallen Since 1993, Study Says by May 07, 2013 5:06 PM The U.S. rate of gun homicides and other crimes fell after 1993, according to two studies released Tuesday. But a survey showed that only 12 percent of Americans said they felt gun homicides had fallen. The U.S. rate of gun homicides and other crimes fell after 1993, according to two studies released Tuesday. But a survey showed that only 12 percent of Americans said they felt gun homicides had fallen. Scott Olson/Getty Images Since 1993, the United States has seen a drop in the rate of homicides and other violence involving guns, according to two new studies released Tuesday. Using government data, analysts saw a steep drop for violence in the 1990s, they saw more modest drops in crime rates since 2000. "Firearm-related homicides dropped from 18,253 homicides in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011," according to a report by the federal , "and nonfatal firearm crimes dropped from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 in 2011. There were seven gun homicides per 100,000 people in 1993, the says, which dropped to 3.6 gun deaths in 2010. The study relied in part on data from the . "Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49 percent lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation's population grew," according to the Pew study. "The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75 percent lower in 2011 than in 1993." All of that is good news — but many Americans don't seem to be aware of it. In a survey, the Pew Research Center found that only 12 percent of Americans believe the gun crime rate is lower today than it was in 1993; 56 percent believe it's higher. In an effort to explain that finding, the Pew researchers noted that while mass shootings are rare, they capture public interest and are often viewed as touchstone events that help define they year in which the crimes occur. As examples, they cite three shootings in the past two years, in Tucson, Ariz.; Aurora, Colo.; and in Newtown, Conn. The U.S. gun crime rate peaked in the late 1980s and early 1990s, the Pew study says, ending years of growth in gun violence that began in the 1960s. But the rate of suicides committed using a firearm hasn't fallen as fast, they add, noting that 6 out of every 10 gun deaths in America stems from suicide. "Looking at the larger topic of firearm deaths, there were 31,672 deaths from guns in the U.S. in 2010," according to the Pew Center study. "Most (19,392) were suicides; the gun suicide rate has been higher than the gun homicide rate since at least 1981, and the gap is wider than it was in 1981." The study also analyzed the people who've lost their lives to gun violence. In 2010, 84 percent of those killed were male; 69 percent were between the ages of 18 and 40. And 55 percent of gun homicides that year were black, the researchers found — far higher than their share of the population (13 percent). The study also notes that while the number of gun homicides has dropped, the number of guns in America hasn't. Noting that it isn't clear how many Americans have guns in their households, that the "2009 per capita rate of one person per gun in the U.S. had roughly doubled since 1968." The federal report included data about where criminals had acquired their weapons. "In 2004 (the most recent year of data available), among state prison inmates who possessed a gun at the time of the offense, fewer than two percent bought their firearm at a flea market or gun show," according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics. "About 10 percent of state prison inmates said they purchased it from a retail store or pawnshop, 37 percent obtained it from family or friends, and another 40 percent obtained it from an illegal source."
Ram Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Yes, lets give everyone a gun. While we are at it, people should have Rocket propelled grenades as well. Heck, ever family should be able to hire a private army who roam around their house 24/7, with dark suits, black glasses, microphones and Uzis in hand. After that, obviously everyone is going to feel perfectly safe. :phehehe: And, you are too intelligent to make this argument - Just making them illegal (like in Conn. or California) or requiring background checks is not going to work because criminals and crazies will find a way to bring guns in and use them for violent acts. There are a million laws to prevent drunk driving. Despite that, people are pulled for DUI charges by the 100s every day. So now what? We simply do away with the law?
Muloghonto Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 As I said, gun-violence is a matter of easy access and inherent violence in American society. Canadians own guns, yet we hardly ever kill anyone with a gun. 90% of the time someone dies from a gunshot, its an illegal gun bought by gang members, not legit guns being sold at stores. The issue with gun-crimes is solvable by looking at Canada, Switzerland, France, etc. as examples- all these nations own large quantities of guns in the common populace, yet have very little gun-related crimes. Most of us use guns for entertainment (go to the local range and pretend to be Rambo shooting at targets) and the problem is not guns, its the culture and the people involved with guns.
Brainfade Posted June 26, 2013 Author Posted June 26, 2013 Yes, lets give everyone a gun. While we are at it, people should have Rocket propelled grenades as well. Heck, ever family should be able to hire a private army who roam around their house 24/7, with dark suits, black glasses, microphones and Uzis in hand. After that, obviously everyone is going to feel perfectly safe. :phehehe: And, you are too intelligent to make this argument - There are a million laws to prevent drunk driving. Despite that, people are pulled for DUI charges by the 100s every day. So now what? We simply do away with the law? I am sorry, but I don't get you. I am advocating strengthening the laws to their ultimate extent - confiscating all guns as the only way to solve the problem. Do you actually bother to read my posts or does the ridiculous rhetoric button come on automatically as soon as you see a post from me? IMO, Every other gun-ban law is a half-assed measure - as proven by Sandy Hook and the Bay area shootings. Tell me, in your opinion, how could we have stopped Sandy Hook and the Bay area shootings? Also, I made it a point to look hard at the cold data shown in the NPR article. Dispassionately. It helps.
Muloghonto Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 I am sorry' date=' but I don't get you. [b']I am advocating strengthening the laws to their ultimate extent - confiscating all guns as the only way to solve the problem. Do you actually bother to read my posts or does the ridiculous rhetoric button come on automatically as soon as you see a post from me? IMO, Every other gun-ban law is a half-assed measure - as proven by Sandy Hook and the Bay area shootings. Tell me, in your opinion, how could we have stopped Sandy Hook and the Bay area shootings? Also, I made it a point to look hard at the cold data shown in the NPR article. Dispassionately. It helps. 1. Confiscating guns is not solving the problem. Confiscate all guns = 100% of the guns are illegally possessed by gang members and the underworld. Proven fact: gun laws do not make ANY impact on the # of guns in circulation amongst the criminals. It only affects the legal ownership of guns. 2. If Sandy Hook had to submit to psychological evaluation, had to prove competency with the gun and had her license revoked when someone ratted on her for being unstable, chances are it wouldn't have happened. All of the above are mandatory in gun ownership for Canadians. You don't just walk in, buy an Uzi and walk out. You have to prove you are competent in using the gun (which involves a written AND a practical test- the latter if you fail, you are automatically blackballed for 2 years to try again), you are psychologically stable to own a gun ( Gun control board invokes the authority to peek into your medical records at the point of application) and all it takes for your license to be revoked is someone calling the gun registry up and saying 'xyz threatened me with a gun!' and having a police case registered against you. Guns are hazardous material. The onus is on the government to treat it as such and not give it out as candy to children. At the same time, 99% of guns are sold for two purposes only: a) hunting b) entertainment. Less than 1% of the guns sold worldwide are sold for personal protection. Heck, in countries like Canada or Switzerland, you are *NOT* allowed to own guns for personal protection. You can only own it for hunting or for entertainment. As such, the idea of banning guns because of a few bad apples is unfair to the vast majority of gun users.
FischerTal Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 ^:phehehe: Do you know who "Sandy hook" is ? captain hook's estranged lover:two_thumbs_up:
bulbul Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 ^:phehehe: Do you know who "Sandy hook" is ? I think he went deep inside discussion :winky:
CSK Fan Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 1. Confiscating guns is not solving the problem. Confiscate all guns = 100% of the guns are illegally possessed by gang members and the underworld. Proven fact: gun laws do not make ANY impact on the # of guns in circulation amongst the criminals. It only affects the legal ownership of guns. Wrong. Gun ownership among small time criminals do come down with stricter gun control. That's how it works in the UK where even the policemen don't carry gun. If a criminal finds that carrying illegal gun is worth more trouble they will stop doing so. The number of small time petty criminals carrying guns decrease drastically when such laws are strictly enforced. As for big time mafia and gangs, do you really thing common people carrying guns are going to stand up against them?
CSK Fan Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 @OP For the US, guns seem to be the magical solution for everything. There are a 100 things which could prevent the crime you quoted. Gun is no magical solution when it provides chances for more harm than good. For some reason, US citizens are obsessed with guns and it's nothing to do with the 2nd amendment or with safety.
CSK Fan Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 Would you elaborate on the bold-faced part? Maybe a link to some data? This http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/01/us/kentucky-accidential-shooting and this http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/09/us/tennessee-gun-death and this http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/09/us/new-jersey-child-shooting and this http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/14/justice/new-jersey-child-shooting-arrest Just in the past couple of weeks. Of course the chances of these happening is still very low, but so are the chances of a gun actually being used in self defense
FischerTal Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 @OP For the US, guns seem to be the magical solution for everything. There are a 100 things which could prevent the crime you quoted. Gun is no magical solution when it provides chances for more harm than good. For some reason, US citizens are obsessed with guns and it's nothing to do with the 2nd amendment or with safety. :agree: its got to do with the American Revolutionary War and the founders of America. Also, in the South aka "Bible Belt" (not meant to be disrespectful towards Christians, thats just what it is called), its basically like a rite of passage for young kids to get a gun to be considered adults.
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