Ponting vs Dhoni-Who is the better captain

[adi B]

ponting won the test series in saf 2--1 2009 with a new,young team..he won 2009 CT in saf with a new team as well..his biggest failure was no test won in india,3 ashes lost..though even dhoni has not won a test match in eng,aus

[Clarke]

Not denying Dhoni's limited overs achievements, but if you bring up a captaincy debate which has Dhoni, I'm simply gonna ask you: would the other captain have suffered an 8-0 thrashing ?

[Crookbond]

ponting won the test series in saf 2--1 2009 with a new' date='young team..he won 2009 CT in saf with a new team as well..his biggest failure was no test won in india,3 ashes lost..though even dhoni has not won a test match in eng,aus[/quote'] That was the peak of Ponting the "captain" and then in 2010 he went ... phusssss!

[rkt.india]

ponting won the test series in saf 2--1 2009 with a new' date='young team..he won 2009 CT in saf with a new team as well..his biggest failure was no test won in india,3 ashes lost..though even dhoni has not won a test match in eng,aus[/quote'] Even young inexperienced Aussie pacers will be better than most experienced Indian fast bowlers.

[adi B]

That was the peak of Ponting the "captain" and then in 2010 he went ... phusssss!

yup but msd has lost 8-0 which ponting never did..ponting`s sell by date was over by 2010 even after the greats departed australia under ponting were very competitive outside home in both tests and odis..2-1win in saf,1-2 defeat in eng ashes,2-0 win in windies 08,1-1 draw vs pak 2010,2-0 defeat in india 2010(though they could have won in mohali,were competitive),2-0 win in nzl.. in odis ,4-2 win in india 09,6-1 win in eng 09,3-2 win in nzl,2-3 defeat in saf 09,5-0 win in windies 08, and of course CT 09 these are some pretty good record after the greats left

[adi B]

Even young inexperienced Aussie pacers will be better than most experienced Indian fast bowlers.

so what? india had better batsmen,better spinner,beat other teams with ur strengths and by the way i have heard dhoni won us the wc,#1 in tests,CT,Wt20 so he should have alone led us to those abroad tests win no?now u blame the bowlers but when we won those trophies,msd won them.....lame excuse mate

[Crookbond]

yup but msd has lost 8-0 which ponting never did..ponting`s sell by date was over by 2010 even after the greats departed australia under ponting were very competitive outside home in both tests and odis..2-1win in saf,1-2 defeat in eng ashes,2-0 win in windies 08,1-1 draw vs pak 2010,2-0 defeat in india 2010(though they could have won in mohali,were competitive),2-0 win in nzl.. in odis ,4-2 win in india 09,6-1 win in eng 09,3-2 win in nzl,2-3 defeat in saf 09,5-0 win in windies 08, and of course CT 09 these are some pretty good record after the greats left

MSD lost 7-0 abroad and had a test series win at home. Ponting has lost 2 consecutive Ashes (3 in total I guess) including one at home which no great captain of Australia ever did. If you want to find loop holes, I can find them in any player in the world.

[adi B]

MSD lost 7-0 abroad and had a test series win at home. Ponting has lost 2 consecutive Ashes (3 in total I guess) including one at home which no great captain of Australia ever did. If you want to find loop holes' date=' I can find them in any player in the world.[/quote'] wait..i mentioned ponting`s loopholes in my previous posts.. this thread is dhoni vs ponting,why are u comparing ponting with previous aus captains? fact is ponting lost 2-1 twice in england which is far more better result than dhoni`s 4-0 in england,he lost 3-1 at home,yes,but dhoni also lost 2-1 to the brits at home.. fact is no captain would/should have ever survived a 7-0 loss record at abroad like dhoni did,ponting`s team never lost like that,they were far more competitive abroad than what india is under dhoni..my previous post stating pontings records outside australia is a testament to it

[rkt.india]

so what? india had better batsmen' date='better spinner,beat other teams with ur strengths and by the way i have heard dhoni won us the wc,#1 in tests,CT,Wt20 so he should have alone led us to those abroad tests win no?now u blame the bowlers but when we won those trophies,msd won them.....lame excuse mate[/quote'] I never said Dhoni won them. I always say captain is as good as the team. Ponting had a far better team than Dhoni whole his career.

[adi B]

I never said Dhoni won them. I always say captain is as good as the team. Ponting had a far better team than Dhoni whole his career.

yup,i was pointing at some dhonibhakts..anyway i have mentioned australia`s performance after the greats went and when india were in an uprise in my previous post..we can clearly say aus team did pretty well even after the greats went

[Crookbond]

wait..i mentioned ponting`s loopholes in my previous posts.. this thread is dhoni vs ponting,why are u comparing ponting with previous aus captains? fact is ponting lost 2-1 twice in england which is far more better result than dhoni`s 4-0 in england,he lost 3-1 at home,yes,but dhoni also lost 2-1 to the brits at home.. fact is no captain would/should have ever survived a 7-0 loss record at abroad like dhoni did,ponting`s team never lost like that,they were far more competitive abroad than what india is under dhoni..my previous post stating pontings records outside australia is a testament to it

The reason of comparison was because Ponting had similar teams to earlier Australian captains (read 1989 to 1997) and yet managed to lost consecutive Ashes not just in England but also at home. Also, Ponting never won a Test match in India as a captain in 8 tries. Btw, I have not even mentioned about Ponting losing two consecutive CB series (best of 3 finals) to a pi$$ poor England team and a touch above average Indian team. He still had decent bowlers/batsmen and disposal and yet he managed to lose the series. Not to forget a loss to Sri Lanka ODI series at home which is a unique instance in Australia's cricket history. And NO, Australia just won 1 series of note after the greats retired (in SA i.e.) - so they did not fare well in Test matches after their greats retired. In ODIs, they still had their hiccups but were competitive.

[adi B]

And NO, Australia just won 1 series of note after the greats retired (in SA i.e.) - so they did not fare well in Test matches after their greats retired. In ODIs, they still had their hiccups but were competitive.

aus were far more competitive than india abroad under ponting even without the greats in test matches,but yes not good by their standards

[Crookbond]

aus were far more competitive than india abroad under ponting even without the greats in test matches' date='but yes not good by their standards[/quote'] What competitive? They could not win a single Test match in India post 2008. I wouldn't call that being competitive. The abroad equivalent for Australia is the SC and not NZ, England and SA.

[rkt.india]

What competitive? They could not win a single Test match in India post 2008. I wouldn't call that being competitive. The abroad equivalent for Australia is the SC and not NZ' date=' England and SA.[/quote'] Agree.

[adi B]

What competitive? They could not win a single Test match in India post 2008. I wouldn't call that being competitive. The abroad equivalent for Australia is the SC and not NZ' date=' England and SA.[/quote'] lets check ind vs aus performance outside home under ponting(without greats) and dhoni test in nzl -- aus won 2-0,ind 1-0 test in saf - aus won 2-1,ind drew 1-1 test in wi - aus won 2-0,ind won 1-0 test in eng -aus lost 2-1,ind lost 4-0 test in ind- aus lost 2-0 test in aus- aus won 2-1(although the hayden,gilly played) though dhoni was not the captain so its pretty clear aus have much better record .. now u say ponting could not win a test in india,true but neither did dhoni in aus abroad equivalent for aus is just SC?whoa!! that means only india(heavyweights),pak(aus have not played there since ages) and sh1ty lungans are the benchmark?lol mind u aus won test series in lanka (04 i think) and have not played much in pak,lanka under ponting..

[saneindian]

Watson and Johnson weren't exactly in the same league as Paine' date=' Hopes etc. He still had Hussey and Lee with him as you mentioned. With Dhoni, second most experienced was Raina who is just 26 having played 160 odd ODIs.[/quote'] Watson and Jhonson wee not exactly legends in 2009 (will never be either). Watson had played 87 ODIs (Same as Rohit Sharma), Jhonson had played 52 ODIs (less than Ishant Sharma had in CT). Raina had played 160 ODIs, Lee had *183* ODIs, Hussey had played 103 ODIs (Kohli had 99 before CT). :two_thumbs_up:

[Sidhoni]

Watson and Jhonson wee not exactly legends in 2009 (will never be either). Watson had played 87 ODIs (Same as Rohit Sharma), Jhonson had played 52 ODIs (less than Ishant Sharma had in CT). Raina had played 160 ODIs, Lee had *183* ODIs, Hussey had played 103 ODIs (Kohli had 99 before CT). :two_thumbs_up:

What I meant was quality over quantity. India probably plays more ODIs than anyone else. But you can easily tell Watson and Johnson are better than the Sharmas.

[bulbul]

Ponting.

[Crookbond]

lets check ind vs aus performance outside home under ponting(without greats) and dhoni test in nzl -- aus won 2-0,ind 1-0 test in saf - aus won 2-1,ind drew 1-1 test in wi - aus won 2-0,ind won 1-0 test in eng -aus lost 2-1,ind lost 4-0 test in ind- aus lost 2-0 test in aus- aus won 2-1(although the hayden,gilly played) though dhoni was not the captain so its pretty clear aus have much better record .. now u say ponting could not win a test in india,true but neither did dhoni in aus abroad equivalent for aus is just SC?whoa!! that means only india(heavyweights),pak(aus have not played there since ages) and sh1ty lungans are the benchmark?lol mind u aus won test series in lanka (04 i think) and have not played much in pak,lanka under ponting..

You are clutching straws here. On one hand you keep on harping over that 8-0 (when in fact it is 7-0) over 6 months so I am well within my rights to use 8 Test matches (1 - 2004, 4 - 2008 and 2 - 2010) for Ponting's barrier over 7 years. "Abroad" has a logical meaning while you are taking a pedagogical sense to it. Abroad does not mean outside India; abroad means abroad conditions. So yes, for Australia abroad means SC. I don't schedule games for Australia so it is not my problem that they haven't played much in SL or Pakistan. And if you don't like the India benchmark, you should probably not use 2 tours as a benchmark for Dhoni as well. :winky:

[Crookbond]

Watson and Jhonson wee not exactly legends in 2009 (will never be either). Watson had played 87 ODIs (Same as Rohit Sharma), Jhonson had played 52 ODIs (less than Ishant Sharma had in CT). Raina had played 160 ODIs, Lee had *183* ODIs, Hussey had played 103 ODIs (Kohli had 99 before CT). :two_thumbs_up:

Watson was not a LEGEND but was arguably the best player in the world back then.