Graeme Swann vs Saeed Ajmal - Who is the best spinner in the world?

[kumar713]

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[deathmonger]

Ajmal is over-rated where as Swann is relatively under-rated because one is the leader of his attack and part of a mediocre team and the other is a part of a good bowling unit in a very strong team. As I said,Keeping all chucking debate apart they are the top 2 Test Spinners in the world today but Swann for me. as he has more variations than AJmal who keeps going to the doosra when he is out of plans

This. Pakistan bowling unit as good as they are in ODIs are pretty mediocre in tests. Umar Gul, Wahab Riaz are pretty mediocre while Junaid, Irfan etc are unproven (Irfan I don't think will have a good career anyways due to his body). In fact they are very similar to the Indian test bowling attack (although better) in the fact that they have good spinners who take loads of wickets in home conditions but struggle away and mediocre pacers.

[jalebi_bhai]

Swann by a fair margin......Ajmal is biscuit against left-handers.......From Hussey and Yuvi......to Narine......they've all neutered his bowling.....:giggle:......

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

herath is first choice

[carnish]

Best Spinner today: Herath Swann Ashwin Ajmal.

[div]

Swann Herath Ashwin TTB Ajmal

[Sajid_Rana]

Should have, would have, could have. Endorsements mean zilch. Ishant Sharma constantly gets endorsed by Wasim/Waqar. Doesn't really mean anything, does it? :giggle: Since you are comparing bowling against lineups, in similar conditions against similar lineups Swann has comfortably outbowled Ajmal. These are the cases: Swann bowled well in the Ashes against a lineup of Hussey, Clarke, Ponting etc in 2010-11. A year earlier Ajmal averaged 100 against them. Similar lineup, similar conditions. In SL on 2012 Swann bowled amazingly well against a lineup of Jaya,Sanga,Dilshan etc in SC conditions. A few months later Ajmal gave a far less impressive performance (though decent in it's own right) than Swann. Even the series in UAE a few months earlier in similar conditions which Pak had won 1-0, Ajmal wasn't as effective. Similar lineup, similar conditions. In SA in 2013, Ajmal was horrible in the first and third tests where there was no help for spinners. In the second match, in SC conditions he took a 10-for (Shafik-YK also helped themselves to centuries on a more familiar pitch). Swann was consistently good in the 2008 series and was MoS. None of those pitches assisted turn and were typical SA pitches. So against teams who play spin well (SL) and conditions not conductive for spin (SA,Oz,NZ) Ajmal is pretty poor compared to Swann. The one time both prerequisites have been satisfied (Team weak against spin, Helpful bowling conditions) Ajmal has outbowled Swann (This is WI in WI). So Ajmal in the end is the spin bowling equivalent of a FTB while Swann is a truly great bowler.

Endorsements do mean something if you take closer look at them. A lot of ordinary Indian players get great status these days by retired players only for one reason IPL contract. Praising Pakistan players will get you nothing unless it is a fact or he has great ability like Ajmal. Ajmal was poor in Aus in 2009 series compare to Swann but let's analyze the performance. Ajmal was playing just his 4th test match and only played one match in that series. Ajmal had to bowl on day 1 of a test match in Aus which doesn't help spinners. Swann had experience of 25 test matches when he first played in Aus. In his first test, Swann had better bowling conditions by bowling in 2nd innings and averaged 80 in that match. Swann played all 5 matches and averaged 40 in the series and flopped in spin friendly Sydney ground averaging 55. Had Swann taken a 10 fer in SA you would used that performance to hype him but the fact is Ajmal took a 10 fer in his first tour to SA so deal with it. The final nail in coffin is that Ajmal won Pakistan a test match in Swann own backyard in his first tour in 2010 while Swann failed in UAE despite having loads of experience and good batting line up to support his ordinary offices. I don't care what he does against other teams but unless he wins a test match for Eng against Pakistan outside his den Pakistan & neutral fans won't rate him higher than Ajmal.

[deathmonger]

Endorsements do mean something if you take closer look at them. A lot of ordinary Indian players get great status these days by retired players only for one reason IPL contract. Praising Pakistan players will get you nothing unless it is a fact or he has great ability like Ajmal. Ajmal was poor in Aus in 2009 series compare to Swann but let's analyze the performance. Ajmal was playing just his 4th test match and only played one match in that series. Ajmal had to bowl on day 1 of a test match in Aus which doesn't help spinners. Swann had experience of 25 test matches when he first played in Aus. In his first test, Swann had better bowling conditions by bowling in 2nd innings and averaged 80 in that match. Swann played all 5 matches and averaged 40 in the series and flopped in spin friendly Sydney ground averaging 55. Had Swann taken a 10 fer in SA you would used that performance to hype him but the fact is Ajmal took a 10 fer in his first tour to SA so deal with it. The final nail in coffin is that Ajmal won Pakistan a test match in Swann own backyard in his first tour in 2010 while Swann failed in UAE despite having loads of experience and good batting line up to support his ordinary offices. I don't care what he does against other teams but unless he wins a test match for Eng against Pakistan outside his den Pakistan & neutral fans won't rate him higher than Ajmal.

I'll reply point by point. First the endorsement part, anyone can endorse anyone - doesn't mean he is great. Maybe Murali endorsed Ajmal because they both are similar bowlers and he sees himself in Ajmal. I mean people endorsed Umar Akmal. No financial incentives there, right and we know how good Umar is. Australia - Doesn't matter that Swann averaged 40 or 55 in Sydney. Ajmal averaged over 100. :giggle: You can't use excuse like first match, fourth match etc. That stat is against Ajmal now. Unless Ajmal goes to Oz again and rectifies it, you cannot assume he'll do better if he goes there with 25 match experience or if he bowls 5th day etc etc. What is a fact is a fact and the fact is Ajmal averages over 100 in Oz and Swann averages 39.50. SA - Even with that 10 for Ajmal has a worse average than Swann in SA. Even that 10 for came in very SC like conditions, not typical SA conditions. Ajmal failed badly in 1st test match and 3rd test match when conditions were SA like. Swann played all his matches in typical SA conditions. As for final nail - You just can't pick and choose. Let me rephrase your very biased paragraph for you. The final nail in coffin is that Swann won England a test match in SL in his first tour in 2012 while Ajmal failed to do so despite having loads of experience (and having played there before) and a good spin playing batting line up to support his ordinary chuckies. Feels familar? :giggle: or how about this The final nail in coffin is that Swann won England a test match in SA in his first tour in 2008 while Ajmal failed to do so despite having loads of experience (and having played there before) and getting a good turning wicket in one of the matches to support his ordinary chuckies. I don't care what he does against other teams but unless he wins a test match for Eng against Pakistan outside his den Pakistan & neutral fans won't rate him higher than Ajmal. Ab aaya na ooth pahar ke niche. I don't care - You are letting your own personal opinion cloud who is better. That's like saying "I don't care what Wasim Akram does against other teams but unless he wins a WC match against India Ishant Sharma is a better ODI bowler". Your logic making sense now? :giggle: As for Pakistan and neutral - Neutral fans do rate him higher than Ajmal. Mostly because they've seen him causing havoc against their own teams, something that cannot be said for Ajmal. As for neutral fans having their opinion on Swann being coloured due to his performances against Pakistan outside his own den - that was the most laughable part of your post. No one cares. You are seriously overestimating Pakistan's influence in the cricket world. Check out the FTP or the composition of the ICC cricket committee to know what it is. Heck, WI of all teams (one of the weakest teams/boards) cancelled a test series with Pak so they could play a tri series with India. :hysterical: