India's bowling attack for tests: ZAK,Shami and ...

[Clarke]

^Yea trying combinations in the remaining odis is all right. The point I was making and you picked up is that Yadav can go for runs as well, doesn't mean we're dropping him in tests. BK has shown good promise, lets give him a cap in the tests.

[rkt.india]

What's appalling is this translation of odd odi performances to test selections. Lets at least see what's what before we dump him. He was supposed to be our new hope on greener pastures and a single odi has changed all that ? If some of you believe Yadav needs extra support b'coz he's phaasstt, that's fine as long as it doesn't come at the expense of a worthwhile talent like BK. What we definitely need to avoid is creating another Pisshant in the long run. The idea is perform or perish, not piss all over the place.

BK can still be good for ODIs but I doubt his overall test prospects are that bright.

[peterparker]

why should bk's test career come at expenses of yadav who has done nothing wrong in that format ? just because he is slow ? this is why i hate this logic itsn ot fast vs slow its bowler who has has great srike rate and wicket taking ability in tests vs bowler who got into test team cos of odi performance to give you example in batting but itsn ot close its bit like raina being in test team ahead of pujara in 2010. now about bk he deserves a good run now but in odis its mohit vs yadav not bk vs yadav and i will pick yadav anyday over mohit and in tests if yadav is in form we should play him and these 2 odis will give us fair idea about rhythm

pace has nothing to do with being a great bowler. Even mohammed asif had no pace, but he used to pick up wickets, tons of them. Indian bowlers are not wicket takers, that's the real issue. Even if we have bowlers who can bowl 155 KMPH consistently, i am not sure, they will pick up wickets. Barring shami, everyone was clueluess on how to pick wickets yesterday. find wicket taking bowlers. This is where pakistan is good, there bowlers are wicket takers, fast or spinners, they pick wickets in piles.

[Clarke]

BK can still be good for ODIs but I doubt his overall test prospects are that bright.

I thought the same for PK and he was our standout bowler in Eng and did reasonably well in WI after which injury and bad form hit him. Lets just see if BK is worthwhile for these conditions.

[peterparker]

I thought the same for PK and he was our standout bowler in Eng and did reasonably well in WI after which injury and bad form hit him. Lets just see if BK is worthwhile for these conditions.

Praveen kumar used to pick up wickets, that's what is needed. You need wicket taking bowlers. Yes, fast bowler like dale steyn and morne morkel will make it hostile, but they pick wickets. West indies team still have pace battery, but they are not wicket takers, that's why they don't win. Steyn, morkel are consistent in picking up wicket.

[rkt.india]

I thought the same for PK and he was our standout bowler in Eng and did reasonably well in WI after which injury and bad form hit him. Lets just see if BK is worthwhile for these conditions.

Standout because others were poor. I dont remember he bowled any impact spell in England, was steady at best. Ishant was poor but he at least had one impact spell where he rattled England top order with quick strikes at Lords. PK averaged 30 at SR of 60 in England on those pitches. He was economical, picked wickets time to time but those wickets were never going to hurt England and PK is certainly a better bowler than BK.

[rkt.india]

Praveen kumar used to pick up wickets, that's what is needed. .

Pick wickets means he must have a great SR which he does not.

[Clarke]

Standout because others were poor. I dont remember he bowled any impact spell in England' date=' was steady at best. Ishant was poor but he at least had one impact spell where he rattled England top order with quick strikes at Lords. PK averaged 30 at SR of 60 in England on those pitches. He was economical, picked wickets time to time but those wickets were never going to hurt England and PK is certainly a better bowler than BK.[/quote'] What Pisshant manages is impact, while PK's 15 wickets in 3 tests never hurt the #1 side! I forgot who I'm talking to :wall:

[Old guy]

pace has nothing to do with being a great bowler. Even mohammed asif had no pace, but he used to pick up wickets, tons of them. Indian bowlers are not wicket takers, that's the real issue. Even if we have bowlers who can bowl 155 KMPH consistently, i am not sure, they will pick up wickets. Barring shami, everyone was clueluess on how to pick wickets yesterday. find wicket taking bowlers. This is where pakistan is good, there bowlers are wicket takers, fast or spinners, they pick wickets in piles.

dude its nothing about pace yadav is just better test bowler and please re read my comment

just because he is slow ? this is why i hate this logic its not fast vs slow its bowler who has has great srike rate and wicket taking ability in tests vs bowler who got into test team cos of odi performance

[rkt.india]

What Pisshant manages is impact' date=' while PK's 15 wickets in 3 tests never hurt the #1 side! I forgot who I'm talking to :wall:[/quote'] I criticize Ishant as much as you do and do not even want him in the squad but I do not see PK bowled a single spell like Ishant did at Lords before lunch. Can show me a single such spell by PK? Show me how many of those 15 wickets were picked when England were less than 50 or 100. I can show you how many of those were picked after 90 overs in an innings. Impact is always made early on in the innings not in 100th over. Ishant was poor and should be nowhere near Indian team, but for me the best spell of that tour from India was bowled by Ishant at Lords in 2nd innings where he reduced England to 55/4 and then we let them recovered from there on. We needed more such spells from all the bowlers which never happened after that.

[Clarke]

I criticize Ishant as much as you do and do not even want him in the squad but I do not see PK bowled a single spell like Ishant did at Lords before lunch. Can show me a single such spell by PK? Show me how many of those 15 wickets were picked when England were less than 50 or 100. I can show you how many of those were picked after 90 overs in an innings. Impact is always made early on in the innings not in 100th over. Ishant was poor and should be nowhere near Indian team' date=' but for me the best spell of that tour from India was bowled by Ishant at Lords in 2nd innings where he reduced England to 55/4 and then we let them recovered from there on. We needed more such spells from all the bowlers which never happened after that.[/quote'] One spell does not a series victory make! PK wasn't the Ambrose to run through the opposition, he was the consistent swing bowler and did a good enough job there. You might say he wasn't rattling their top order all the time but it doesn't help when you have lambu/sree going for 4+ runs an over in a frigging test match. Eng had the option to see him through since all the other bowlers were ineffective. All this in his second test series against the eventually #1 side and here we are, criticizing him of all people.

[rkt.india]

One spell does not a series victory make! PK wasn't the Ambrose to run through the opposition, he was the consistent swing bowler and did a good enough job there. You might say he wasn't rattling their top order all the time but it doesn't help when you have lambu/sree going for 4+ runs an over in a frigging test match. Eng had the option to see him through since all the other bowlers were ineffective. All this in his second test series and here we are, criticizing him of all people.

I am not criticizing him, neither praising Ishant. I am just giving an example what kind of bowlers we need who can deliver such spells on a consistent basis. Ishant is a lost cause and PK and BK kind of bowlers have limited abilities. They can at best be support bowler like BK was to Shami against WI. They cannot become strike bowlers. If Shami and Yadav can bowl at their best then BK can provide a good support but you cannot expect him to destroy a battling line up. For that, they need to groom Shami and Yadav and back them.

[Clarke]

I am not criticizing him, neither praising Ishant. I am just giving an example what kind of bowlers we need who can deliver such spells on a consistent basis. Ishant is a lost cause and PK and BK kind of bowlers have limited abilities. They can at best be support bowler like BK was to Shami against WI. They cannot become strike bowlers. If Shami and Yadav can bowl at their best then BK can provide a good support but you cannot expect him to destroy a battling line up. For that, they need to groom Shami and Yadav and back them.

Cool! So lets agree on something here. I guess we're picking Shami & Yadav for the first test, BK can complement them as a swing bowler who could also bowl longer spells, innit ?

[rkt.india]

Cool! So lets agree on something here. I guess we're picking Shami & Yadav for the first test' date=' BK can complement them as a swing bowler who could also bowl longer spells, innit ?[/quote'] We have Zak too. I want to see Umesh and BK play next 2 ODIs and only then can take any decision. Needs to see how Umesh bowls and if BK can improve after first match. Zak and Shami are certainties. Third spot will be taken by Yadav or BK.

[Clarke]

We have Zak too. I want to see Umesh and BK play next 2 ODIs and only then can take any decision. Needs to see how Umesh bowls and if BK can improve after first match. Zak and Shami are certainties. Third spot will be taken by Yadav or BK.

Yadav's test slot cannot be judged on odis. He's had a steady start in the former and a rubbish one in the latter. I'm also hoping we're extending the same courtesy to BK.

[Old guy]

Yadav's test slot cannot be judged on odis. He's had a steady start in the former and a rubbish one in the latter. I'm also hoping we're extending the same courtesy to BK.

then why was bk plying ahead of yadav against west indies ?

[youngindia]

I thought the same for PK and he was our standout bowler in Eng and did reasonably well in WI after which injury and bad form hit him. Lets just see if BK is worthwhile for these conditions.

look the likes of chetan sharma,vk Prasad,binny(highest wickettaker in the 83 WC) all had success in England.pk has done nothing more than what chetan or binny had done. this does not mean they are going to have great averages in any format.they are merely effective under one condition.

Praveen kumar used to pick up wickets, that's what is needed.

what are you smoking?... pk's one day average is 36 ,as worse as vinay and even less than the much maligned sreesanth. ishant is way superior in ODI average and strike rate for same amount of matches nit picking little samples here and there and coming to absurd erroneous conclusions.

[Clarke]

then why was bk plying ahead of yadav against west indies ?

I don't know, I'm not a selector. My point is its unfair to sideline BK/Yadav in tests based on odi performances. Different requirements, objectives, game plans, conditions and what not.

[rajmarie]

I will stick with Bhuvi in Test....He has bowled very good with red ball. Dont take ODI performace for Test matches.

[randomGuy]

I don't know' date=' I'm not a selector. My point is its unfair to sideline BK/Yadav in tests based on odi performances. Different requirements, objectives, game plans, conditions and what not.[/quote'] Good points you make. I'd have preferred Rahul Shukla from Rajasthan royals, Shami and Yadav. Dhawal Kulkarni and Varun aaron as back up. ofcourse Shukla Kulkarni and aaron arent even in the squad which makes this a pointless post.