Sachin lucky he didn't face West Indies pace greats: Imran Khan

[TheWall]

Pathetic to see this cheater n loser khan commenting on sachin

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Muloghonto]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with destructive due to pace theory. If one has to go by that, he has been not been more destructive than Akhtar, Steyn and Donald and their Strike rates says so. Sachin faced Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Saqlain, Afridi..all in their prime and still shone on the dangerous 5th day Chennai track.

Err Holding at his best is easily as good as Wasim and better than Waqar. Strike rates only make so much of a sense in comparing from eras where there are over quotas vs when there are no over quotas. It must be remembered that until the mid 90s, when the rules were changed, tests were far easier to draw. Bowling strike rates suffered due to this reason. Holding- and I've seen him live- was easily as good as Akram or McGrath on dead pitches and far more menacing on bouncy & seaming pitches. He was more in the Alan Donald mould, where he would absolutely destroy you with spells like 8-3-15-5 or he would go wicketless. t One must realise that the reason the west indies attack got rated as of the best ever is because it was one of the best ever, better than the current English/Aussie/Saffie attack by a considerable distance. The reason is not because they played 4 ATG bowlers together, it is because they played 2-3 ATG bowlers over a decade and usually the 4th bowler was good enough to walk into ANY side at that time or currently for that matter. At first, it was a duo of Roberts & Holding, backed up by Croft, Julien & Holder. Of them the top 3: Roberts, Holding & Croft were better than any 3 pace bowling combo going around today or in the heydeys of the 90s. Then it was a trio of Holding, Marshall, Garner, backed up by Walsh, Patterson, Clarke, Wayne Daniels and Winston Davis. Of those seven, six would've found starting role in virtually any side in the last 20 years. Then came Ambrose & Bishop, backed up by Walsh, Patterson. It wasnt till the early 90s when the WI bowling evolved to '2 ATG fast bowlers and 2 more to make up the numbers' type, which still made it a formidable attack. I hope you realize that till Gillespie emerged in the late 90s, WI had a top 3 attack, competing with RSA and PAK for the best attack tag and even till 2001, they were in the top 4 mix, all of which were better than all attacks today minus South Africa. One must also consider that to be an excellent attack, its not just about having 4 bowlers with the best stats around, its about the balance of the attack. Even though Ambrose & McGrath have better stats than Donald and Akram, the latter combo is better in real life due to how the bowlers complement each other. Ambrose and McGrath are virtually the same bowlers- Ambrose got more pace and bounce, McGrath shaped the ball out more but both were all about pin-point accuracy short of good length on 4th stump line, whereas Donald and Akram offer different skillsets to complement each other. This is a facet of the West Indies fast bowling that made them brutal. Their only weakness is they did not have a spinner but as Marshall & Holding proved through their careers, they were excellent at slow or crumbling wickets because both of them could cut the ball at dizzying speeds. When the West Indies bowling unit operated from 1975 to 1990, they always had one 'thunderbolt bowler who could target the batsmen or the stumps at will' : Holding, Clarke, Roberts, Marshall filled this role, one bowler who could hit the deck hard and make it extremely difficult to score while targetting the body of batsmen: Croft, Walsh, Patterson fulfilled this role and one bowler who could probe away outside offstump while making it impossible to score due to their accuracy and bounce: Ambrose, Garner & Bishop fulfilled this role. Together they comprised the most complete fast bowling unit to ever take the field. Now, on King Khan's comments- its difficult to see how a 16 year old is 'lucky' to've not faced the West Indies bowling. Thats like saying Nadal is lucky he didnt turn pro at 14 or Federer would've creamed him- DUH! an adult is supposed to get the sporting better of a kid! So say Tendy did play against the West Indies as a sixteen year old and got bested- what would it have proved, except that the world's best fast bowling attack was too much for a sixteen year old to handle ? If Imran thinks it would've affected him, he is on crack. Tendy was relentless and had supreme confidence as a youngster. Most people remember the Tendy of 2003 when he 'modified his game to overcome a hurdle', ala his 241 in Sydney. But that was a 14 year veteran Tendulkar making a concious choice to modify his game to suit his 'senior player' status in the lineup, sort of how Clive Lloyd did it in his later years. But Tendy of the 'solitary batting hope of India overseas and in all pressure situations' that prevailed before the late 90s was irrepressible. Tendy had a lean patch of form in 96 or 97 when he bacame the captain for the first time. He kept attacking and backed himself to succeed, it made no difference to him that he was going through a rough patch. I dont see why a sixteen year old with nothing to lose would be so concerned about failing in a series against West Indies or another side....

[Iconoclast]

Woah ... why so sensitive ? Calm down ladies :giggle: As someone else mentioned he was praising Gavaskar more than deriding Tendu.

[Chandan]

Woah ... why so sensitive ? Calm down ladies :giggle: As someone else mentioned he was praising Gavaskar more than deriding Tendu.

Well, Gavaskar has been has real great batsman for us! Here is an article on him :http://goo.gl/cxIpQA The gift of pride To a country starved of self-respect, Gavaskar was a godsend Harsha Bhogle September 20, 2010 Sunil Gavaskar on his way to 188, MCC v Rest of the World, Lord's, August 1987 Sunil Gavaskar: a landmark of Indian cricket © Getty Images More than his 34 centuries and 10,000 runs, more than his 96 in Bangalore or his 221 at The Oval, even more than the 774 runs on debut with which he strode into our impressionable minds, Sunil Gavaskar's greatest contribution was to instill pride in a generation brought up on low self-esteem. Till he came along, with a boyish mop of hair and a defiant attitude beneath, Indians had been told that they could not play fast bowling. India's batsmen, in spite of a legacy of Vijay Merchant, Vijay Hazare, Vinoo Mankad and Polly Umrigar, were the subject of much leg-pulling, especially in England, and young minds in the late sixties and early seventies were convinced by the gullible local media into thinking that anything British was better than everything Indian. In such an atmosphere, Gavaskar started to score runs and told us that an Indian could be the best in his profession. Ten years later, Kapil Dev showed that an Indian could bowl fast. That is why those two are great landmarks in the evolution of Indian cricket. Gavaskar didn't just stand for pride, he stood for hope too. As long as he was in, India could fight, and the words "Gavaskar out?" were uttered in fear every time the commentator's voice rose amid the crackle on the radio. He was the head and shoulders of India's batting, and unless Gundappa Viswanath produced a piece of artistry, he was often the only symbol of resistance. That is central to any understanding of the way he batted. Apres him, it was le deluge. Gavaskar's batting style, based on defence, constructed around the best defensive technique in India's cricket history, was a product of his times. If you were a wage-earner in the seventies, you saved every penny you could, you always put aside something for a rainy day. If you had a job you hung on to it for life. Safety and caution were the defining factors of India's middle class, and it was from such a background that Gavaskar emerged. He gave the first hour to the bowlers and fought to get the next four-and-a-half. He hit the ball along the ground and he built his innings on ones and twos, not fours. That would be extravagant and there would be stinging words if he got out in search of a boundary. It wasn't done. To a generation experiencing the benefits of liberalisation, used to seeing a Sachin Tendulkar symbolising a "spending regime", these might seem strange words. But when Gavaskar was 103 not out at the end of the first day of a Test match, it wasn't considered boring, it was invaluable. Gavaskar was still there and there was hope. If he was an investor, he would put his money in secure Government of India bonds, where a Tendulkar might play the equity markets. His style was built around an uncanny feel for the off stump. Anything outside was left alone with the patience of a sage, and when the bowler was compelled to move his line closer to the body, he was whipped through the on, or straight-driven in style. That straight drive was a hallmark, and even if the cult commercial of the era talked about Gavaskar perfecting his square drive, it was the straight drive everyone waited for. His powers of concentration were legendary. Mohinder Amarnath once told me that he thought his partner was in a trance. In a rare interview Gavaskar admitted that he never kept the ball out of sight, following it all the way from the slips to mid-off to the bowler's hand. And he swears it is true that he did not know what his score was when he was batting, for the mind was only focused on the ball, on the next ball. When Javed Miandad apologised for sledging him during the legendary 96 in Bangalore, he smiled back saying he had no idea what was being said. He hadn't heard it. That 96, his last Test innings, was a masterpiece played on a mass of rubble impersonating a pitch. The spinners were making the ball turn at right angles and jump past the nose. "I thought I would get 10," he later said, and much like Tendulkar's heroic 136 in Chennai 12 years later, the exit of the best batsman was the announcement of the end of the innings. Bishan Bedi, once a great friend of Gavaskar's and then, sadly, a bitter antagonist, admitted once that had Gavaskar been opening the batting in Barbados in 1997, India would have won. (They were bowled out for 81 chasing 120). Three times when Gavaskar was at the top of the order, India scored more than 400 runs in the fourth innings, and to my mind that will remain his most staggering batting contribution. The win in Port-of-Spain in 1976, where, led by an immaculate century from him, India made 406 for 4, is still India's finest moment in a Test match. He made a shaky middle order look better than it was, in much the manner today's openers make a good middle order look worse than it is. Don't forget either that through the mid-seventies and eighties the standard of bowling in world cricket was awesome. There will probably never be a greater collection of fast bowlers in Test cricket. West Indies could pick any of seven; Australia had Dennis Lillee, Jeff Thomson, Rodney Hogg and Len Pascoe; England had Bob Willis and Ian Botham; New Zealand had Richard Hadlee; and Pakistan had Imran Khan and Sarfraz Nawaz. Opening the batting wasn't the cleverest profession and maybe that is why nobody really stayed long enough with Gavaskar. He played many innings to remember, including a half-century in 1971 that he rates among his best. I have one, though, that occupies a very special place in my mind. Not the 221, not the 96, not the 101 at Old Trafford in 1974, not the 188 in the Bicentennial Test at Lord's (even though that should be compulsory viewing for anyone who wants to learn how to bat), not even the 236 in Madras. It is the century in Delhi in 1983 against a genuinely great West Indian fast bowling attack, when he pulled out the hook shot for only a day and got to the hundred from a mere 94 balls. That day was magic. There was no self-denial that day, the bowlers weren't given the first hour and it wasn't a middle-class man saving for his family. He loved his numbers, and in course of time, like everyone else, he will be remembered by those. But they won't tell you that Gavaskar made you proud to be Indian. Ravi Shastri talks about the one time SMG was hit on the head by Malcolm Marshall, and the aftermath nMiLRgF6sjo Video of Gavaskar's 100 (94) that @bhogleharsha referred to in that article with intro from SMG on straight driving wFhGOR1AH98

[bones]

Pathetic to see this cheater n loser khan commenting on sachin

Well I saw a video on youtube yesterday documenting on Sachin's career and in one clip he was clear as daylight picking at the seam of the ball. Such was the bling love of the Indian media, fans and the board they almost declared war because of it. So Sachin isn't as clean as people like to make out. As for Imran, he probably did cheat most of the time, heck I reckon everyone back then would have done it if they knew more about it. As for Imran being a loser, well the stats and history show he was a beast with bat and ball. Of course Pakistan dominated India during the time he was playing India, in fact there was a gulf between the sides even wider than the one between them now (India being better now of course). Why are Indians so sensitive about Tendulkar? Just not required.

[Sarkar]

Well I saw a video on youtube yesterday documenting on Sachin's career and in one clip he was clear as daylight picking at the seam of the ball. Such was the bling love of the Indian media, fans and the board they almost declared war because of it. So Sachin isn't as clean as people like to make out. As for Imran, he probably did cheat most of the time, heck I reckon everyone back then would have done it if they knew more about it. As for Imran being a loser, well the stats and history show he was a beast with bat and ball. Of course Pakistan dominated India during the time he was playing India, in fact there was a gulf between the sides even wider than the one between them now (India being better now of course). Why are Indians so sensitive about Tendulkar? Just not required.

Sachin was cleaning the ball where as bottle caps khan admitted he and his team were the kings of tampering take sharjah record and see how your team meekly got pawned time and time again history of drug addicts ball tamperers ball biters are talking dig at sachin who never had any controversy.

[putrevus]

Imran khan should be thanking his fricking lucky stars that he did not have to face Sehwag and Sachin. The reason I used Sehwag first, the battering Imran would have received from Sehwag would have left him half dead. Sachin battering half dead bowler would have been kind of unfair. As regards to Sachin facing WI bowlers he would have done just fine, Sachin is not a some product of coke bottle top. He had very good technique in addition to having all the shots in the book so Mr.Imran he would have done just fine.

[bones]

Sachin was cleaning the ball where as bottle caps khan admitted he and his team were the kings of tampering take sharjah record and see how your team meekly got pawned time and time again history of drug addicts ball tamperers ball biters are talking dig at sachin who never had any controversy.

Cleaning the ball? Lol, yep sure. The guy was deliberately digging his nails in, I don't think you'd be saying he was cleaning the ball if Sreesanth, Warner, Broad, Afridi or any other player hated by many Indian fans did the same. Take Sharjah out and Pakistan got meekly owned? It's funny because you didn't bother to research did you. Most people at least bother to do some research before they spew out rubbish like you have. Pak vs Ind in India is 19-11 in Pakistan's favour. Overall the record is 71-50 and taking out Sharjah the record is 52-43, Pakistan still comfortably ahead. The major blemish for Pakistan has always been in major events, which they have often been mental midgets. Even in the 2011 match the game was theres for the taking, but brain fart after brain fart handed the game to India on a plate. 52-43 outside of Sharjah and 19-11 in India. If Pakistan were getting "pawned time and again" it clearly wasn't out on the cricket field, maybe in your dreams?

[bones]

Imran khan should be thanking his fricking lucky stars that he did not have to face Sehwag and Sachin. The reason I used Sehwag first, the battering Imran would have received from Sehwag would have left him half dead. Sachin battering half dead bowler would have been kind of unfair. As regards to Sachin facing WI bowlers he would have done just fine, Sachin is not a some product of coke bottle top. He had very technique in addition of having all the shots in the book so Mr.Imran he would done just fine.

Imran's overall stats put him right up there with true elite players the game has seen. A batting average of 38 in tests and a bowling average of 23 is immense. Yep I'm sure Imran would have feared facing Sehwag and Tendulkar, I mean those stats mean he probably would have failed right? It's funny reading comments in threads like this.

[Yoda-esque]

Imran's overall stats put him right up there with true elite players the game has seen. A batting average of 38 in tests and a bowling average of 23 is immense. Yep I'm sure Imran would have feared facing Sehwag and Tendulkar' date=' I mean those stats mean he probably would have failed right? It's funny reading comments in threads like this.[/quote'] Good points, Pak did dominate us in the past but we have had their number in the past decade or so. Also Imran was a great all rounder though the bottle cap incident certainly did tarnish his reputation

[putrevus]

Imran's overall stats put him right up there with true elite players the game has seen. A batting average of 38 in tests and a bowling average of 23 is immense. Yep I'm sure Imran would have feared facing Sehwag and Tendulkar' date=' I mean those stats mean he probably would have failed right? It's funny reading comments in threads like this.[/quote'] What elite players are you talking about, He never was a batsmen when he was a bowler and when he was a bowler he was tail ender with bat. If Imran fricking Khan is elite is Sachin some chop lever. If Imran fricking Khan is termed Elite then forget Sachin Who is ( greatest of all time) Sehwag is more than elite.does any fricking pakistani batsmen averages 50 in test cricket with strike rate over 80. Show me one fricking batsmen in history of cricket who has stats of Sehwag since you are so big on stats of fricking Imran elite Khan.

[bones]

What elite players are you talking about, He never was a batsmen when he was a bowler and when he was a bowler he was tail ender with bat. If Imran fricking Khan is elite is Sachin some chop lever. If Imran fricking Khan is termed Elite then forget Sachin Who is ( greatest of all time) Sehwag is more than elite.does any fricking pakistani batsmen averages 50 in test cricket with strike rate over 80. Show me one fricking batsmen in history of cricket who has stats of Sehwag since you are so big on stats of fricking Imran elite Khan.

The fact that you're getting worked up is starting to show you're losing this argument and your cool. An average of 23 wit the ball over a 88 match career and 38 with the ball, only a person with exceptionally high standards would put a player of that calibre down. Chill dude, Imran Khan said Sachin had an easier ride than other great batsmen, he won't be losing sleep over it, nor will Sachin, are you?

[putrevus]

The fact that you're getting worked up is starting to show you're losing this argument and your cool. An average of 23 wit the ball over a 88 match career and 38 with the ball, only a person with exceptionally high standards would put a player of that calibre down. Chill dude, Imran Khan said Sachin had an easier ride than other great batsmen, he won't be losing sleep over it, nor will Sachin, are you?

Imran Khan had the easiest ride as cricketer ,took ages to come good but still was very average but still was lucky to be in team.Thats why it is hilarious coming from him. calling Imran Khan as Imran fricking Khan in your books is getting worked up then so be it.Did not want to use cheater so used that one. How has Sachin easier ride, this guy was 16 when he played test cricket, He has earned every bit of what he did unlike Imran Khan . In what moron's book player playing 200 tests and scoring 100 international tons is called having easier ride.

[CG]

Imran Khan had the easiest ride as cricketer ' date='took ages to come good [b']but still was very average but still was lucky to be in team.Thats why it is hilarious coming from him. calling Imran Khan as Imran fricking Khan in your books is getting worked up then so be it.Did not want to use cheater so used that one. How has Sachin easier ride, this guy was 16 when he played test cricket, He has earned every bit of what he did unlike Imran Khan . In what moron's book player playing 200 tests and scoring 100 international tons is called having easier ride.

Oh come on ,Yes he may make some unfair assumptions but u cannot deny his performances.

[putrevus]

Oh come on ' date='Yes he may make some unfair assumptions but u cannot deny his performances.[/quote'] I am not making any unfair comments about Imran fricking Khan.He averaged 23 with bat with no hundreds and 29 with ball for almost ten years when he played just 29 tests. How is that world class in any book can you tell me. so it safe to assume that what stats he ended up with eventually were not just due to his god given talent but due to various outside factors. You can look it up.

[bones]

I am not making any unfair comments about Imran fricking Khan.He averaged 23 with bat with no hundreds and 29 with ball for almost ten years when played 29 tests. How is that world class in any book can you tell me. so it safe to assume that what stats he ended up with eventually were not just due to his god given talent but due to various outside factors. You can look it up.

So basically Imran is crap because he was ordinary at the start of his career? By that logic, Sachin is crap too because he was ordinary the last couple of years he played. What are these outside factors that propelled Imran Khan from being an average cricketer to an absolute beast then? Did women start playing international cricket? Did he only play against Hong Kong and Malaysia for 10 years? You're really funny. To make your point about how Imran is not good, when the stats and cricket watchers know he was an exceptional cricket player, you choose to ignore an entire period of his career. Shall we judge all crickters based on their first 29 matches? Shall we judge Warne, Tendulkar, Ponting etc etc, on their first 29 matches and ignore the rest of their careers? I am actually laughing at your comments because I think you actually believe the rubbish you're coming out with.

[Sarkar]

Cleaning the ball? Lol, yep sure. The guy was deliberately digging his nails in, I don't think you'd be saying he was cleaning the ball if Sreesanth, Warner, Broad, Afridi or any other player hated by many Indian fans did the same. Take Sharjah out and Pakistan got meekly owned? It's funny because you didn't bother to research did you. Most people at least bother to do some research before they spew out rubbish like you have. Pak vs Ind in India is 19-11 in Pakistan's favour. Overall the record is 71-50 and taking out Sharjah the record is 52-43, Pakistan still comfortably ahead. The major blemish for Pakistan has always been in major events, which they have often been mental midgets. Even in the 2011 match the game was theres for the taking, but brain fart after brain fart handed the game to India on a plate. 52-43 outside of Sharjah and 19-11 in India. If Pakistan were getting "pawned time and again" it clearly wasn't out on the cricket field, maybe in your dreams?

What rubbish are you talking you Pakistanis are always jealous of tendulkar like your AKhtar and Afridi made up story that he was scared of pace he was not proven gulity where as Imran khan and his warriors admitted they did tamper stick your head to head where sun doesnt shine fact is your team gets pawned by India in every world cup and big games.Yes no one can defeat Pakistan according your lahori logic.

[bones]

What rubbish are you talking you Pakistanis are always jealous of tendulkar like your AKhtar and Afridi made up story that he was scared of pace he was not proven gulity where as Imran khan and his warriors admitted they did tamper stick your head to head where sun doesnt shine fact is your team gets pawned by India in every world cup and big games.Yes no one can defeat Pakistan according your lahori logic.

You haven't addressed any of the points I've made. Instead you have just blurted out 4 lines of drivel. Why would Pakistanis be jealous of Tendulkar? His records are awesome, but doesn't mean people are jealous. Heck if being jealous was a thing, then I'm sure they'd be jealous of Bradman, someone who's stats dwarf any other cricket player's. You said outside of Sharjah India own Pakistan, when the stats prove otherwise. We are discussing different things at the end of the day. The bottomline is, Indians love Tendulkar and won't stand for anyone saying anything but praise of him. Clearly then, it's best if your blood boils at such threads, not to get involved in them? It reminds of that guy a couple of years ago who wrote, Tendulkar has never scored a 100 at Lords. He's never scored a 100 in a world cup final. He's never scored a 100 against India, so it begs the questions, has Tendulkar scored a 100 anywhere? Many Indian fans saw the funny side, but many others so stupid, didn't see the humour.

[putrevus]

So basically Imran is crap because he was ordinary at the start of his career? By that logic, Sachin is crap too because he was ordinary the last couple of years he played. What are these outside factors that propelled Imran Khan from being an average cricketer to an absolute beast then? Did women start playing international cricket? Did he only play against Hong Kong and Malaysia for 10 years? You're really funny. To make your point about how Imran is not good, when the stats and cricket watchers know he was an exceptional cricket player, you choose to ignore an entire period of his career. Shall we judge all crickters based on their first 29 matches? Shall we judge Warne, Tendulkar, Ponting etc etc, on their first 29 matches and ignore the rest of their careers? I am actually laughing at your comments because I think you actually believe the rubbish you're coming out with.

Ask him , his coke bottle tops and his home cooked umpires which made him into a cricketer with great stats because I don't think they were just due to his god given talent. It took him ten years to just make a mark into his side forget him being world class.Anybody who saying Imran fricking Khan is world class needs to take a history lesson in cricket. It is not just 29 tests it is almost ten years which took those 29 tests. Sachin averaged more than 50 after 29 test with 7 hundreds and hundreds in Australia, SA and England what are you talking about, That my friend is real talent not a manufactured talent like your Imran fricking Khan. Shane Warne had highest score higher than your Imran Khan and had more wickets at lesser average. So you tell me how can a run of mill average cricketer which Imran Khan was for better part of a decade becomes world class. God given talent does not take one decade to emerge. I am not angry at you I just dont think Imran khan stats were legit, you can make him sher a pakistan or what ever but he was just mediocre cricketer to begin with ,who some how ended up with great stats.