The Outsider Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Even if you can see homosexual behavior in animals' date=' [b']does animals practice complete homosexuality? I dont think so..At the best it can termed as sexual aspect beyond that of reproduction. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Yet another chaddi thekedaar. Because only gay people can argue for equal rights for homosexuals, and children can fight for children's rights. Congress against Section 377 as its leaders are homosexuals: Ramdev New Delhi: Baba Ramdev once again made a scathing attack on the Congress on Tuesday and called most of the party members are homosexual. While objecting to the Congress's soft stance on homosexuality and Section 377, Ramdev said that seems most of the Congress member homosexual and so they are supporting homosexuality. When asked about the Aam Aadmi Party (AAP), Ramdev took a dig at the party's election symbol, the broom, and said Parliament also requires two or three sweepers. Earlier, the Supreme Court overruled a 2009 Delhi High Court judgement on Section 377 and declared homosexuality illegal. Several leaders including Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi have expressed their disappointment with the SC judgement. But the BJP has come out in support of Section 377 and called homosexuality unnatural and against Indian tradition. http://ibnlive.in.com/news/congress-against-section-377-as-its-leaders-are-homosexuals-ramdev/440094-37-64.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precambrian Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Ignorance is not an excuse for bigotry. If the majority opposes/doesn't care about homosexuality' date=' it does not make it OK for the state to discriminate. Plus, if this really was such a hot button issue for the majority, we would have seen more opposition in the last 4 years when consensual homosexuality was decriminalized. It is only a big issue for a small group of numbnuts who are the self-anointed [i']thekedars of their religions and culture. Equal rights for the gay community are not some privilege to be bequeathed to them by the larger hetero population, just like rights for Scheduled castes are not given to them by the upper castes. They are guaranteed equality by the constitution and it is the responsibility of the courts/legislature to enforce this guarantee Decriminalization of consensual sex is such a basic step that it shouldn't be even part of a debate. It is simply a way to pave way for discussions for which laws would be required - marriage equality and adoption rights for the gay community. Replace gay with public nudity, and try to see it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 What is your definition of natural? Since every human is different from one another, I dont see varied sexual preferences as unnatural . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Replace gay with public nudity' date=' and try to see it again.[/quote'] Yes a biological predisposition to sexual preference is exactly the same as taking off your clothes in public. :idea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precambrian Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 +1. Every one should have the right to love someone and declare them as their partners and set up home with them...plan a future together. Sigh... They still can continue to love, stay in the same house etc.. And adopt a baby if they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Sigh... They still can continue to love' date=' stay in the same house etc.. [b']And adopt a baby if they want. Gay couples can adopt? Since when? I don't see how that's possible unless they hide their relationship status and adopt as a single parent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Since every human is different from one another' date=' I dont see varied sexual preferences as unnatural .[/quote'] So Homosexuality is natural or unnatural? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhunaeh Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Some of the arguments here are a carbon copy of arguments put forth against idol worship and hinduism by radicalized pakistanis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detonator Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 BJP are evil. congs are saints. yaaayy pls write a petition to SC to legalize gay sex and move on peeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Question : Who will overrule SC judgement if required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precambrian Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Gay couples can adopt? Since when? I don't see how that's possible unless they hide their relationship status and adopt as a single parent. Exactly, how does it matter how the kid is adopted? If the end motive is to adopt one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Exactly' date=' how does it matter how the kid is adopted? If the end motive is to adopt one?[/quote'] So gay people can have sex as long as they don't tell anyone they are in a relationship. They can adopt kids by lying about their relationship status. In short, they have to break laws to lead a perfectly normal life that heterosexuals are allowed to in the country. Your "gay friend" might be fine with this sort of unfair way of life, but most people in the LGBT community are not. Your avatar makes much more sense now. kthxbye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 @Ganesh, a) I guess my definition of 'natural' is different from yours..I guess you are implying natural means biological, a gay is born gay. My point is even sexual preferences are acquired because of social, cultural , psychological or hormonal influences , it doesn't look unnatural to me. Just like our emotions are product of social evolution, sexual preferences can be product of any number of various factors. Hence I am arguing for decriminalization of so called "unnatural sex" between two consented adults. b) I gave the schizophrenia example because so called scientific reports in psychological fields are highly subjective, and prone to change quickly unlike your physics and biological research. For ex: When you say homosexuality is biological , how can one prove this? It is not quite possible. Can we "fix" this if it is supposed to be biological. we dont know. Yet since it is called scientific research , we tend to believe this without questioning. c) One of the purpose of life is to reproduce and every being on the earth are hardwired for trying to reproduce...Some succeed and some will not. Just like animals who may show homosexual behavior when they are not reproducing, it is possible that every man will have an ability to become heterosexual for the purpose of reproduction . But such scientific studies or allowing gay marriages might convince one not to discover his hetero sexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precambrian Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 So gay people can have sex as long as they don't tell anyone they are in a relationship. They can adopt kids by lying about their relationship status. In short, they have to break laws to lead a perfectly normal life that heterosexuals are allowed to in the country. Your "gay friend" might be fine with this sort of unfair way of life, but most people in the LGBT community are not. Your avatar makes much more sense now. kthxbye Huh, I'd want to discount that "normal way of life" remark. Normal? A sexual relationship that isn't governed by basic instinct of reproduce isn't really normal in the first place mate. Anyways, lets leave that for the time being. Unnatural sex includes masturbation, so haven't we all, at some point in time, broken that as well? I don't see a movement "justice for masturbators" anywhere, do I? :cantstop: As I said before, majority of society don't accept homosexuals in our society. Its odd you make tall claims about majority of LGBT guys' opinion but pretend not to consider majority of society's. double standards much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Huh, I'd want to discount that "normal way of life" remark. Normal? A sexual relationship that isn't governed by basic instinct of reproduce isn't really normal in the first place mate. Anyways, lets leave that for the time being. Unnatural sex includes masturbation, so haven't we all, at some point in time, broken that as well? I don't see a movement "justice for masturbators" anywhere, do I? :cantstop: As I said before, majority of society don't accept homosexuals in our society. Its odd you make tall claims about majority of LGBT guys' opinion but pretend not to consider majority of society's. double standards much? So sex with contraception is un natural?So that would render most part of a person's sexually active life ,unnatural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Huh, Normal? A sexual relationship that isn't governed by basic instinct of reproduce isn't really normal in the first place mate. Have you seen stray dogs (of the male variety) doing it on the street? There is nothing 'unnatural' about sex among animals. BTW, Wiki on IPC 377 says: The ambit of Section 377, which was devised to criminalize and prevent homosexual sex[citation needed] extends to any sexual union involving penile insertion. Thus, even consensual heterosexual acts such as fellatio and **** penetration may be punishable under this law. But, do we need courts to amend the law? We need a vote/bill passed in legislature to amend this law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precambrian Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 So sex with contraception is un natural?So that would render most part of a person's sexually active life ' date='unnatural.[/quote'] nope, the act is driven by the primal need to procreate, man doing what he can to avoid the consequences. The urge, the act all is perfectly normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precambrian Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Have you seen stray dogs (of the male variety) doing it on the street? There is nothing 'unnatural' about sex among animals. BTW, Wiki on IPC 377 says: But, do we need courts to amend the law? We need a vote/bill passed in legislature to amend this law. :cantstop: I've seen dogs eating their own poop. So man following suit is ok and natural as well?:facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 @Ganesh, a) I guess my definition of 'natural' is different from yours..I guess you are implying natural means biological, a gay is born gay. My point is even sexual preferences are acquired because of social, cultural , psychological or hormonal influences , it doesn't look unnatural to me. Just like our emotions are product of social evolution, sexual preferences can be product of any number of various factors. Hence I am arguing for decriminalization of so called "unnatural sex" between two consented adults. There are two alternatives here- either homosexuality is natural and biological (genetic or epigenetic) and is born gay , or it is a matter of nurture - environment, culture and a person can change his or her own sexual orientation . You are arguing for the latter and I am going for the former b) I gave the schizophrenia example because so called scientific reports in psychological fields are highly subjective, and prone to change quickly unlike your physics and biological research. For ex: When you say homosexuality is biological , how can one prove this? It is not quite possible. Can we "fix" this if it is supposed to be biological. we dont know. Yet since it is called scientific research , we tend to believe this without questioning. You are mistaking biological with psychological research. Both are very different. Schizophrenia is very much biological and not subjective, it is caused by imbalance of neurotransmitters in our brain. We might not know everything about the biological basis of the disorder, but you cannot use the gaps in our understanding of one subject to extrapolate this to argue that anything and everything that science has produced is wrong. It is the classic god of the gaps argument The way to prove that homosexuality has a biological basis is study teh genetic markers, horomonal levels during pregnancy, family trees of homosexual people and their DNA and plenty of other research has been done along these lines. This is not something that people "just believe without questioning". Till now a single gene has not been isolated which could switch on and off homosexual preference but scientists are of the opinion that there are a group of multiple factors which govern sexual preference. If you think that sexual preference could indeed change or is a matter of choice, please provide relevant papers for that research. There is not a single creditable study that has been done which proves that homosexuality is a conscious choice. c) One of the purpose of life is to reproduce and every being on the earth are hardwired for trying to reproduce...Some succeed and some will not. Just like animals who may show homosexual behavior when they are not reproducing, it is possible that every man will have an ability to become heterosexual for the purpose of reproduction . But such scientific studies or allowing gay marriages might convince one not to discover his hetero sexuality. Homosexuality is seen in animals. Exclusive homosexuality is also observed. So I don't get what your point here is. Every gay man might turn heterosexual (citation required) but is prevented from doing so because a law allowing gay marriages? I don't get this at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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