someone Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Prima facie you are right but consider the other side of this argument - The maid was given lodging' date=' food, utilities etc. as well so that could over the min. wages per hour requirement. In Indian terms, think of 4500USD as CTC and salary + food + lodging + utilities adding up to it despite the salary being low. But, the problem is that the salary = 537 USD per month. This effectively means that the "perks" should come out to 4000USD. Add to that, if the plaintiff is able to prove that she was over worked - god bless Devyani Khobragade.[/quote'] Well, that the problem. Our official reaction, none have admitted any sort of sympathy nor mistakes on part of the underpayment of the maid. We have totally denied and instead made the maid as the part of the accuser. You will not win any case with such counter offense. If India needed to any sort of reciprocal, it should have made all personal staffs of US diplomats in India agree with our local laws and no Indian being able to be employed by them. That would have caused problems for them then, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Well, that the problem. Our official reaction, none have admitted any sort of sympathy nor mistakes on part of the underpayment of the maid. We have totally denied and instead made the maid as the part of the accuser. You will not win any case with such counter offense. If India needed to any sort of reciprocal, it should have made all personal staffs of US diplomats in India agree with our local laws and no Indian being able to be employed by them. That would have caused problems for them then, That is such a pittance that US will make it quite ease. However, the one question that's putting US in a soup is this - Since the US embassy is technically a US territory, the Indian staff employed at the US embassy should be paid according to US laws. That's a more fitting reciprocal statement than asking to pay Indian local wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 For the life of me I can't figure out why India is associating so much nationalistic pride behind this Devyan. We in India follow a two tier system. When a commoner, for instance a ship's captain who goes for reporting an attack on his ship and is then thrown in prison in some tinpot african republic for months, its business as usual. Heavens forbid some babu/mantri/actor etc has to deal with some problems, the VIP brigade wouldn't have any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South_Paw Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Seems today most of the regional media have released news in favor of the maid. Almost all the Tamil dailys and News channels have stopped favoring the Devyani. 'Dinamalar', the leading Tamil Daily, has reprinted the news that it released on 10-5-2010 about Devyani's fraud in attaining her current position. Even 'Vikatan', the leading Weekly Magazine, has a news on its cover stating "The fault is not only with US but also with our Diplomat". Also today I was able to see a lot of Anti-Devyani and Pro-Maid messages in Twitter and Fb. Not sure how things are taking a turn slowly. Also Salman Kurshid who was issuing punch dialogues beating even the ones of Rajnikanth until yesterday has abruptly reduced his steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhunaeh Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 The difference though is that US cares about ALL its citizens in the US as well despite their social status. I can't imagine India persuading US at this extent if the person in question wasn't a diplomat. US will 9/10 times pursue it even it's not a diplomat and not just from India from almost anyone in the world. Read about a certain 18-year old Michael Fay from US who was accused of car vandalism in Singapore in 1994. According to Singapore's law, Fay was to be caned but the US strongly objected it considering it to be a human rights violation. Two dozen US senators wrote a letter to Singapore appealing for clemency. Even Clinton got involved in it. Singapore didn't budge but US managed to reduce the caning counts from 6 to 4. It almost created a diplomatic problem between the two countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay India does zilch to the dozens of Indian expats in the middle east who are treated like sh!t. US thinks every citizen of its country is above that of anyone else and its system of justice over rides everyone else's. If it was any other citizen then the indian govt has to treat him or her as an individual and bow to local laws and has no right to act the way US does as in the example you have given. It is bullying and lack of respect for local laws when US acts the way it does. In case of diplomats, it is expected of the prosecuting country to treat the diplomat with more respect and send her out of the country and not make a public spectacle of her crimes and embarrass her country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South_Paw Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 So now everyone have come to a point of argument stating, "US citizens are committing crimes and are not being prosecuted in other countries and so the same should be applied to Devyani too." How could US be responsible for the incapability of spineless governments? If you want justice, serve it to US citizens in your countries rather than crying a foul play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 US thinks every citizen of its country is above that of anyone else and its system of justice over rides everyone else's. If it was any other citizen then the indian govt has to treat him or her as an individual and bow to local laws and has no right to act the way US does as in the example you have given. It is bullying and lack of respect for local laws when US acts the way it does. In case of diplomats' date=' it is expected of the prosecuting country to treat the diplomat with more respect and send her out of the country and not make a public spectacle of her crimes and embarrass her country.[/quote'] You are missing the point. India acts according to social status, US doesn't - there's consistency in US 'bullying'. India simply throws tantrums when VIPs are held under scanner. Oh and as far as representation of the country is concerned, Captain Sunil James would be a much better representative than Devyani Khobgrade. If anything, India should've acted switftly and much earlier for Sunil James than a corrupt diplomat who tried to use her muscle to pressure the maid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 There have been previous cases of maids being treated badly. Wasn't there a case not long ago about a 45 year old domestic maid that was tortured and killed by the wife of a prominent MLA? A lot of fuss about how DK was allegedly treated but very little about the gravity of her crimes. She probably thought she could get away with it based on her social status. Maybe in India but definitely not in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 From Twitter: Sometimes, you land with more baggage than when you took off :hysterical::hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSK Fan Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 There have been previous cases of maids being treated badly. Wasn't there a case not long ago about a 45 year old domestic maid that was tortured and killed by the wife of a prominent MLA? A lot of fuss about how DK was allegedly treated but very little about the gravity of her crimes. She probably thought she could get away with it based on her social status. Maybe in India but definitely not in the US. Missing the point again and again and again. When US diplomats get away with even MURDER,m why should any self respecting country allow US to prosecute their diplomats? The case was sue moto in Indian high court and US government was informed well in advance But keep trying, you might get the point one day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSK Fan Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 So now everyone have come to a point of argument stating' date=' "US citizens are committing crimes and are not being prosecuted in other countries and so the same should be applied to Devyani too." How could US be responsible for the incapability of spineless governments? If you want justice, serve it to US citizens in your countries rather than crying a foul play.[/quote'] That goes against everything in diplomatic laws and relationship Also ignores the fact that US government also acts equally spineless when it comes to other countries like Russia and Brazil for even worse crimes. Medicad fraud of over $1.5 million were committed by Russian consul members and this same guy wanted to arrest them., The US government immediately stopped the state from arresting them. India is considered a weakling to be pushed http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/12/05/medicaid-fraud-russia-diplomats/3878619/ Forget the diplomats, even their spouses, who wouldn't be covered under immunity, weren't touched. Now talk about US spine and adhering to laws please. The guy quoted is the same guy in this case. The reason India is so p!ssed off, is that these things are understood in diplomatic circles and this just shows India's standing in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Seems you are the one not getting it. She is basically accused of visa fraud, exploitation and human trafficking. She is being held accountable for the crimes she committed. Simple law enforcement issue, do the crime, do the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Seems you are the one not getting it. She is basically accused of visa fraud, exploitation and human trafficking. She is being held accountable for the crimes she committed. Simple law enforcement issue, do the crime, do the time. Does that apply to Indians only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSK Fan Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Seems you are the one not getting it. She is basically accused of visa fraud, exploitation and human trafficking. She is being held accountable for the crimes she committed. Simple law enforcement issue, do the crime, do the time. Nope, diplomatic laws supersede local laws any and every time. please check my post above and see how Russians committed $1.5 million dollar fraud and ever their spouses and families weren't even touched when they committed every healthcare fraud in the book and even the FBI were involved. The US just watched them with their tails between their legs You can keep on yapping about the law when the fact is, diplomatic laws will always supersede local laws. That's how international relations work no matter how much you wish it didn't. Wait and watch while US lets her go without charge. You have also not commented about US diplomats getting away with murder under diplomatic immunity Sorry, you might be ignorant of diplomatic laws, but ignorance of laws is no excuse. Particularly when you keep on stating the same wrong thing again and again despite being corrected multiple times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSK Fan Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Does that apply to Indians only? Dude, it is clear he is just trolling now. He does not reply to the point about US national s getting away with murder under diplomatic immunity. He does not reply to the point about US letting other nationality people like the Russians get away with bigger crimes. He is completely ignorant (or pretending to be ignorant) of how diplomatic laws work and what does immunity mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Umm, she does not have diplomatic immunity, she only had a limited form of consular immunity. Dexter Morgan posted many articles pointing out this distinction. Seems to me you are the one who is doing the yapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 One can blame the US of applying the law selectively but I don't get the line of reasoning - You left the Russians, you leave us too. Rather it should be - Prosecute the Russians, if you prosecute us. Subtle difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 She did not have diplomatic immunity, hence she was arrested. Simple binary logic that MTC fails to comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 One can blame the US of applying the law selectively but I don't get the line of reasoning - You left the Russians' date=' you leave us too. Rather it should be - Prosecute the Russians, if you prosecute us. Subtle difference.[/quote'] Agreed. Add the fact that she is an Indian. She didn't not have diplomatic immunity and she was Indian, hence she was arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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