Will India be a better test team overseas without MSD ?

[GautiMaan]

I am sure Dhoni would have done much worse in WI A tour than Saha where most of the batsmen with good domestic record failed. Please try to understand the point. A player with good proven record in domestic, who has shown potential needs to be given chances in place of someone who is a constant failure. If that can't be done then just select a squad of 15 and stop playing domestics, A tours altogether.

You are considering overseas and home matches separately when you say that but i dont think selections work that way.saneindian has made my point,the difference between Dhoni and Saha is not going to be that big and Saha is not going to play knocks like Dhoni at home.As of now Dhoni deserves his place as a keeper-bat.

[Ghost Buster]

Like Umesh would split the earth :giggle: . He is also an over-rated bowler like Ishant. Shami is the only one who has reasonable accuracy alongwith Bhuvan.

Umesh is a better bowler than ishant for,sure. Ishant has been in team for about 4yrs still couldnt lead the attack. Umesh whenever got chance outside india have been good. If umesh is given chance that of ishant he will be much more fruitful. He will not become steyn but can give us important breakthroughs.

[Number]

You are considering overseas and home matches separately when you say that but i dont think selections work that way.saneindian has made my point' date='the difference between Dhoni and Saha is not going to be that big and Saha is not going to play knocks like Dhoni at home.As of now Dhoni deserves his place as a keeper-bat.[/quote'] On that WI A tour, he was as good as Rohit, Tiwary and much better than Rahane. Pujara was way better than everyone else. Don't get fooled just by the averages. Even if Dhoni makes it as a WK-Bat, his captaincy is another big negative.

[ThePhenomenal1]

Dhoni is the reason why India fails abroad? Not the humongous failures of our batsmen who failed to post 300 total 8 abroad tests in a row? or the pie chucking fast bowlers against whom every tom dick and harry racked up 200' date=' 300 for fun? :cantstop:[/quote'] Dhoni has a say in who's selected. Why was vinay kumar selected for aus tests? He has picked Unadkat, vinay, ishant when he was horrendous, praveen kumar after injury, an unfit zaheer khan. He took no initiative to find some new pacers with PACE and skill that India does have but is never selected. Even now he isn't using yadav but he picks ashwin who got outbowled by Duminy. Then he has RAINA and Yuvraj in the test squad, when he knows raina can't face the short ball and there were much better batsmen before. Dhoni also makes little changes to the team's order when things aren't working. Aus defended under 200 runs against Pakistan and there have been other examples, e.g India bowling out Aus for under 100, was it in 2004? You don't always need high totals if you have a good crop of pacers and attack. Only now is he setting attacking fields for a whole innings. Batsmen and bowlers might fail but the captain also has a responsibility. He looked uninterested in the previous away tours. Hope it changes but I'd rather have a new young captain for tests. Maybe pujara or kohli

[Ghost Buster]

I would like dhoni to score atleast a 50 in these conditions with his experience otherwise our tail starts from no6. He has to be little proactive with his captaincy.

[GautiMaan]

On that WI A tour, he was as good as Rohit, Tiwary and much better than Rahane. Pujara was way better than everyone else. Don't get fooled just by the averages. Even if Dhoni makes it as a WK-Bat, his captaincy is another big negative.

Separate issues,this is how i see it.Over the next year Chepu and Kohli will find their feet in test cricket,if we keep losing like the last time,one of them must take over captaincy. Dhoni's fails consistently as a keeper batsman as well he loses his place in the side next and Saha/Kaul/Dk come in.I think Patil will have the guts to do this.

[CG]

Separate issues,this is how i see it.Over the next year Chepu and Kohli will find their feet in test cricket,if we keep losing like the last time,one of them must take over captaincy. Dhoni's fails consistently as a keeper batsman as well he loses his place in the side next and Saha/Kaul/Dk come in.I think Patil will have the guts to do this.

:giggle:Not if patil loves his job.Seriously if u are nto sacked for 8-0 u will never be sacked.India is a odi ,t20,ipl loving country the next odi series we win everything is forgotten.Dhoni will decide when it time to call quits and i think it might be 2014 wc.

[Number]

:giggle:Not if patil loves his job.Seriously if u are nto sacked for 8-0 u will never be sacked.India is a odi ' date='t20,ipl loving country the next odi series we win everything is forgotten.Dhoni will decide when it time to call quits and i think it might be 2014 wc.[/quote'] He might be after Srinivasan is gone in September. Before that Dhoni is don. Worst is behind him, if during 8-0 noone touched him, now our team will do much better despite his captaincy and batting, so nobody will question him till september.

[GautiMaan]

:giggle:Not if patil loves his job.Seriously if u are nto sacked for 8-0 u will never be sacked.India is a odi ' date='t20,ipl loving country the next odi series we win everything is forgotten.Dhoni will decide when it time to call quits and i think it might be 2014 wc.[/quote'] Last time there was no established player in the Test side,now we might have some options. I hope and pray that our team does well though and there wont be a mess:pray:

[maniac]

I think right time to get Sanju Samson in....Dhoni needs to retire from tests and ODI after 2015....This is opposite of most teams though,like Healy was still playing tests when Gilchrist was a ODI regular but as I have said Dhoni is MVP in ODI but a liability in tests with the bat,Captaincy and the gloves.

[maniac]

Dhoni's mediocrity at the test level was well masked when we had the strongest middle order in the world....Now with the young guns firing he may sneak in a few more years thanks to ODI performances especially on the S.C under the guise of bringing balance to the team

[vvvslaxman]

Geez why was Michael Clarke holding on to his spot despite losing 0-3 vs England, 0-4 against India? losing home series to SA, only drawing against NZ Why didn't they remove? It is very very easy to throw the captain under bus. Internet experts will come up with every brain farts as ideas. If you consider all of them he will go nuts. Indian senior batsmen first were not availble. when they were available they were not upto mark. Zaheer's absence from England tour was a huge set back. With both batting and bowling failing result was always going to be 4-0. England as team was superior to us on that tour regardless of who was missing who was not playing. Barring Dravid our senior players let us down. England is saying the same thing now. They are attributing their bowling failure to their batting failure. IF batsmen don't put up runs on decent batting surfaces, bowlers will be pushed on the defensive.

[vvvslaxman]

Dhoni's mediocrity at the test level was well masked when we had the strongest middle order in the world....Now with the young guns firing he may sneak in a few more years thanks to ODI performances especially on the S.C under the guise of bringing balance to the team

I know he is exactly a great captain. But the conspiracy theories you guys come up with :cantstop:

[maniac]

Geez why was Michael Clarke holding on to his spot despite losing 0-3 vs England' date=' 0-4 against India? losing home series to SA, only drawing against NZ Why didn't they remove? It is very very easy to throw the captain under bus. Internet experts will come up with every brain farts as ideas. If you consider all of them he will go nuts. Indian senior batsmen first were not availble. when they were available they were not upto mark. Zaheer's absence from England tour was a huge set back. With both batting and bowling failing result was always going to be 4-0. England as team was superior to us on that tour regardless of who was missing who was not playing. Barring Dravid our senior players let us down. England is saying the same thing now. They are attributing their bowling failure to their batting failure. IF batsmen don't put up runs on decent batting surfaces, bowlers will be pushed on the defensive.[/quote'] 8-0 followed by 2-1 against England....Clarke lost to S.A 1-0 but a series in which they were not the favorites......Drew in S.A,stood up and delivered as a captain with the bat....so dont put them in the same league as Dhoni,the only thing Dhoni has over Clarke is Clarke is a grade A douche and Dhoni is well liked by his team mates

[Ghost Buster]

I know he is exactly a great captain. But the conspiracy theories you guys come up with :cantstop:

Do you think any other indian captain would have survived 8-0 drubbing?

[CG]

Geez why was Michael Clarke holding on to his spot despite losing 0-3 vs England' date=' 0-4 against India? losing home series to SA, only drawing against NZ Why didn't they remove? It is very very easy to throw the captain under bus. Internet experts will come up with every brain farts as ideas. If you consider all of them he will go nuts. Indian senior batsmen first were not availble. when they were available they were not upto mark. Zaheer's absence from England tour was a huge set back. With both batting and bowling failing result was always going to be 4-0. England as team was superior to us on that tour regardless of who was missing who was not playing. Barring Dravid our senior players let us down. England is saying the same thing now. They are attributing their bowling failure to their batting failure. IF batsmen don't put up runs on decent batting surfaces, bowlers will be pushed on the defensive.[/quote'] Excuses Excuses.

[vvvslaxman]

8-0 followed by 2-1 against England....Clarke lost to S.A 1-0 but a series in which they were not the favorites......Drew in S.A' date='stood up and delivered as a captain with the bat....so dont put them in the same league as Dhoni,the only thing Dhoni has over Clarke is Clarke is a grade A douche and Dhoni is well liked by his team mates[/quote'] What about 0-7.. :giggle: Dude.. he is no better than Dhoni in terms of results. In addition to that he created lot of issues among the team. After seeing last few years of cricket white washes are going to be a routine thing these days when two imbalanced sides meet. Only SA test series has some draws. Most of the test series are white washes these days. Much more result oriented these days. Windies but for one freak innings by Bravo would have suffered white wash in NZ. This is the new order. I never imagined India would whitewash even bangladesh in a 4 match series. We whitewashed Australia.

[vvvslaxman]

Excuses Excuses.

shall i say "Witch hunting"

[CG]

shall i say "Witch hunting"

Excuses again.

[CG]

Do you think any other indian captain would have survived 8-0 drubbing?

Dhoni was sacked by selectors then,Clarke said he feared being sacked.Actually series in england was closer than stats show .While we were hammered by huge margins