Horrifying tale of 'rape' makes girl kill baby after secretly giving birth to baby in school

[beetle]

Disagree! You are expecting an behavior of an adult in a minor discounting the trauma she must have gone through that made her throw her own baby! Her survival in the society has taken precedence than of her child which I see is clearly wrong' date=' but I wont jail her because society cant expect children to do right thing when they are in trauma. She needs psychological and medical assistance to overcome this, and live a better life.[/quote'] A new born deserves maximum protection from society and no one should be excused for hurting much less killing one. But I wouldn't judge this girl. Child birth by itself is a traumatic experience ....a poor 15 year old having to go through it without any help is a horrifying nightmare. On top of the fear and horror of it happening in a narrow minded and hypocritical and judgemental society like ours is enough to drive anyone insane.Wish she had left the baby and fled instead.

[Muloghonto]

A new born deserves maximum protection from society and no one should be excused for hurting much less killing one. But I wouldn't judge this girl. Child birth by itself is a traumatic experience ....a poor 15 year old having to go through it without any help is a horrifying nightmare. On top of the fear and horror of it happening in a narrow minded and hypocritical and judgemental society like ours is enough to drive anyone insane.Wish she had left the baby and fled instead.

I am surprised that you would excuse this girl's behaviour mildly. I would like to know your reasons why you would consider her emotional reaction to kill her child as something you wouldn't judge.

[bsriharsha]

Cant have unprotected sex with a minor. It amounts to statutory rape.

remove the word "unprotected" from there. Having sex with minors is "rape" , consent doesn't play a role.

[beetle]

I am surprised that you would excuse this girl's behaviour mildly. I would like to know your reasons why you would consider her emotional reaction to kill her child as something you wouldn't judge.

It's difficult to explain...let me try.You may disagree .... Let me compare it to went I had my child. I was a grown woman almost 10 years older to her. knew exactly what was happening...had read many books ,had the doctor explain to me. When I went into labor ...I had my caring husband with me,loving parents waiting at home,a team of doctors,Friends for support.a labor room and operation threat re ready for any emergency. I had a difficult labor....lasted 48 hrs out of which I spent 24 hers screaming my guts out ,biting my husbands hand and even kicking the doctor a few times. Finally I was taken to the OT for a C section. Inspite of all the loving and caring people andthe best of facilities around...it was the most terrifying experience. Never felt so helpless and so out of control ,in so much pain.I was in no condition to be called mentally or emotionally stable at that point .This when I didn't have to worry about myself or the baby once the baby was born Then I Compare it to the horrifying experience this poor child had to go through.Having to hide the pregnancy(I wonder if she even know...there are enough cases where the person didn't even know)....To go though that experience without any one to help her...without even having a chance of anyone helping ,not being able to scream or tell anyone about her pain and to have to actually physically give birth to that child all alone and the panic that must have set in about what would happen once people knew.Was this poor child in a mentally fit state to take care of even herself leave aside the poor helpless child who was even more helpless than herself.I doubt it.If she had done this one week later ...I would call her a murderer....but immediately after giving birth in such horrifying conditions ,I would not . Even thinking about what she went through makes my mind numb and sends a chill down my spine. Poor child and poor girl.Wish she had panicked and ran instead...called for some help.The very fact that she threw out the baby from the window(instead of hiding it) suggests it was an absolute panic reaction of a girl not in any state to think straight. You may disagree and I would understand that too.

[Muloghonto]

Well i suppose i get where you are coming from, beetle. You are using your experinece of childbirth as a guage to understand/empathize with the girl. It is something we all do. We process the world through our tinted lenses of personal experiences. This is why, in my opinion, the older you are, the more intractable and 'set in ways' people get: old people have tons and tons of experience to draw from and they view anything in the world through their closest case of experience. Young people tend to lack experience and as such, tend to process things purely based on their sense of 'right and wrong' and logical/emotional abilities. For example, all my experience with childbirth were very quick & easy. When my first was born, missus spent a grand total of 3 minutes in labor. I am not kidding, I actually almost missed the birth of my first child because when the doctor said 'she is going to go into labor soon', i went out to grab a coffee from the vending machine 10 feet from her room. In the 2 minutes it took me to deposit my money and get the world's blandest coffee and return to the room, my kid's head was already out and in another minute or so, the umbilical was cut. My wife would probably not like to hear this but she's spent longer on the toilet after some bad food than she did in labor. To me, it seems like a mother going through horrifying pains of childbirth would be too spent to move or do anything except maybe breast feed, much less walk up and toss a baby out of the window. On the other hand, my wife, 2 hour after childbirth and the hubdub had died down, was perched on her bed, reading her novel like just another night in bed before sleep. Its not just my wife, both my cousins when they gave birth, i had the good fortune of being in India and both of them were done inside of 1 hour of labor. You imagine childbirth, you see the excruciating pain and suffering. I imagine childbirth and i instinctively think of being just a little worse than normal constipated and on the crapper. I will say this- it is possible that this girl was desensetized by the sheer volume of pain she received through childbirth. But it is also possible that she simply tossed her baby out as a day old tampon with cold, calculated efficiency. Either which way, i find her actions to be extremely odd. Difficult birth or not, I would imagine that you, like every mother I've ever talked to or every mammal I've ever seen, would display a strong sense of protectiveness over their spawn. That much, is basic instinct. Just like men getting a hard-on being talked to by a seductive sexy naked lady. Whether we want to have sex with them ( or are going to), is immaterial, we will be tumescent ( assuming ofcourse, hetero behaviour). Or the instinctive sense of hostility we felt as a child whenever anyone was being confrontational with our parents. Those are base instincts. To be able to override them speaks of one of two things: extreme emotional breakdown or extreme sociopathic behaviour. Trouble is, sociopaths are good at manipulating emotions and can easily fake a half-baked 'boo hoo, poor me, i was in nutcase mode' story. Which is why, I think she should be tried for murder as default and IF AND ONLY IF she can prove extreme mental breakdown through the most rigorous of medical evaluations, should she be exempted from hanging or life in jail- in which case i feel she should spend years in a mental prison ( ie, insane assylum for the criminally insane).

[beetle]

Oh shut up man!!!...just because you have women with high threshold of pain doesn't mean you make labor seem like a bad case of constipation. I would love to see you you shoot out a baby from your stuff and then talk. Just be grateful to the women in your life for their high threshold of pain and nature being kind to them.Three minutes labor indeed!!!:bike:Most women do experience tough labor.Specially if it is the first one. I think there will be enough doctors who will say she in her state was in no condition to think properly.Why should she send her life in a mental asylum? It is a temporary state induced by the physical and emotional effect of labor and child birth under traumatic conditions. I still don't believe you described child birth the way you did. You are one insensitive guy....you guys make a big deal out of shooting out one stone from your stuff and child birth is like a visit to the crapper!!! :roll:No wonder you can't sympathize with the poor girl.

[Muloghonto]

Oh shut up man!!!...just because you have women with high threshold of pain doesn't mean you make labor seem like a bad case of constipation. I would love to see you you shoot out a baby from your stuff and then talk. Just be grateful to the women in your life for their high threshold of pain and nature being kind to them.Three minutes labor indeed!!!:bike:Most women do experience tough labor.Specially if it is the first one. I think there will be enough doctors who will say she in her state was in no condition to think properly.Why should she send her life in a mental asylum? It is a temporary state induced by the physical and emotional effect of labor and child birth under traumatic conditions. I still don't believe you described child birth the way you did. You are one insensitive guy....you guys make a big deal out of shooting out one stone from your stuff and child birth is like a visit to the crapper!!! :roll:No wonder you can't sympathize with the poor girl.

Shut up ? Now you are being rude, which I did not think i warranted. But I am not kidding you, it was three minutes till my daughter popped out and labor started. Its not about high threshold of pain- i seriously doubt my wife was in any major amounts of pain for very long- she said it felt like a sharp stabbing pain from the inside, like some alien ripping out of her for a minute or two before the pain subsided. I don't think any doctor would say that childbirth is such a mentally unhinging condition that it overrides the basic instincts to eat, protect self or defenceless spawn of self by default. Yes, i suppose it can be said in extreme circumstances but I don't see why you are so callously saying 'she was giving birth- so anything is justified as it is the most traumatic experience ever'. You are simply assuming that she was in such a 'terrible shape' after birth as you were. Judging from your story, you probably did not have the energy to even move an inch and probably hurt like hell to even change which side you lay on. Yet this girl got up & threw her baby out of the window as if she is throwing a football. I find to believe that a girl who would bite through several hands, bleed herself to oblivion and cry at the top of her lungs till her vocal cords got stress nodules in them for hours would have the energy to get up and throw her baby out of the window. If you don't believe the story of my firstborn, it is disappointing but do ask some experienced OB/GYNs, they will tell you of the rare but not so-rare case of '5 minute childbirth'. Some women are far more adept at giving birth than others, which mostly have to do with bodytypes- width of hips, angle of uterus with vagina, levels of dialation achieved and many more medical things i am poorly qualified to explain. By the way, as far as shooting out the stone goes- the urethra is not designed to stretch to ten times its resting diameter. Ever. Your vagina and cervix are. Just because you are passing out a far bigger thing than us, does not imply the process is more painful or requires higher pain threshold. Lastly, why should she spend her life in a mental institution ? Because she displayed less basic instinct towards life than a mouse does and it cost a human being his/her life. At worst, it was clinical murder of 1st degree (where she planned it with hiding her pregnancy and engineering the secrecy of her birthing). At best, it was criminal negligence resulting from emotional distress- which still signifies a dangerous person who took a human being's life- her own child's to boot- when 'stressed'. Such individuals need to prove that they are fit to rejoin normal society before being let out. In no way should she go scot free by playing the 'oh pain. too much pain, so i killed my baby. You men dont know what pregnancy is like' type of feminist nonsense.

[beetle]

The" oh shut up " was more in jest. I apologize if you are offended. As for the rest....just because tiny fraction of a women have easy labor doesn't mean that the most painful experience in a woman's life can be described the way you did. My mom almost died giving birth to me. My sister had the toughest of time delivering her child .She was in so much of pain that it was difficult to even look at her. An un assisted delivery is a nightmare for any person let alone a poor child. As for shooting out the stone....apna dard sabhi ko lagta hai....doosron ka dard mazaak.

[urbestfriend]

Let me come from other point of view. What is the purpose of any punishment? Incapacitation or deterrence. Do you think punishing a child for what she has done in trauma will help other such cases ? Or Do you think she is an evil and she will continue to do the same in the future if left unpunished? I can only think she would not have done the same if someone would have recognized her pregnancy and counseled her or offered some help. As beetle said, delivery is not easy for women , it is worst of the trauma they go through and how can you expect her to be sane and think logical? You need to consider her upbringing,her social environment and her mindset at that point of time for what she has done although she has definitely wronged in what she had done.

[Muloghonto]

The" oh shut up " was more in jest. I apologize if you are offended. As for the rest....just because tiny fraction of a women have easy labor doesn't mean that the most painful experience in a woman's life can be described the way you did. My mom almost died giving birth to me. My sister had the toughest of time delivering her child .She was in so much of pain that it was difficult to even look at her. An un assisted delivery is a nightmare for any person let alone a poor child. As for shooting out the stone....apna dard sabhi ko lagta hai....doosron ka dard mazaak.

Don't worry, i am not offended easily. I thought you may be joking but rest of the post also looked hostile, so i thought you may be serious. No offence taken! Again, you are generalizing from your personal experience & those of your near and dear ones. Just as my wife & cousins are tiny fraction of womanhood, so too are the 'nearly dropping dead from the ordeal of childbirth' like you and your mother/sister. Most women fall somewhere in the middle, where it is strenuos, probably is the most painful & sustained period of physical stress most women undertake but nothing that a good night's sleep doesnt reduce to just a dull ache. I did acknowledge that what you describe could be possible in case of her and in such a case, she should get exemption from jail/phaansi. But that needs to be proven, no ? Otherwise any woman can kill anyone right after childbirth and say 'see, too much pain, i couldnt think straight'. She does need an extended stay at the mental institution at the very least- not as punishment, but as help, for any mother who can instantly kill her baby is committing an act so abnormal & against basic instinct that she needs lots and lots of therapy before trusting to be safe in the general public. For the stone- apne apne dard ki baat nahi hain, baat hai sirf dard ki. You think just because the stone is no bigger than a random piece of stone stuck to your shoe, its not that painful. Yet, you are forgetting that the urethra is not designed to stretch so much and i highly doubt women who've passed kidney stones would make light of the pain.

[Muloghonto]

Let me come from other point of view. What is the purpose of any punishment? Incapacitation or deterrence. Do you think punishing a child for what she has done in trauma will help other such cases ? Or Do you think she is an evil and she will continue to do the same in the future if left unpunished? I can only think she would not have done the same if someone would have recognized her pregnancy and counseled her or offered some help. As beetle said, delivery is not easy for women , it is worst of the trauma they go through and how can you expect her to be sane and think logical? You need to consider her upbringing,her social environment and her mindset at that point of time for what she has done although she has definitely wronged in what she had done.

1. That her actions were solely induced out of trauma and not pre-meditated needs to be established. As it stands, she is guilty of murder. How what and whys can be mitigating circumstances but incapacitation of a murderer on all but the most exhaustive amounts of evidence to extraordinary circumstances should be the basic idea of justice for murder. If i kill you in my house, it isnt automatically assigned to 'oh, he must've broken in, threatened to kill mulo and mulo defended himself'. So why should this be an 'automatic' case ? 2. I am not expecting sanity or logic. This is not logic. This is basic instinct. Just like if i want to slap your face, your hands instinctively come up to protect, so too is protecting one's child. To do so, requires no thought or logic. To counter it, requires either extreme amounts of stress or logic. She displayed less basic instinct of parenting than most animals do. There are plenty of raped women, raped girls, girls giving birth in dire situations etc. but the overwhelming majority of them dont just kill their young- implying that her reaction needs to be accounted for, due to its exceptional callousness. 3. I don't see why punishing her for murder would not deter other would-be-murdering moms from terminating their babies. On the other hand, excusing her behaviour as 'bachchi hai, galti ho gayee' type callousness can encourage every single unwanted pregnancy ending in baby murder.

[beetle]

>>>For the stone- apne apne dard ki baat nahi hain, baat hai sirf dard ki. You think just because the stone is no bigger than a random piece of stone stuck to your shoe, its not that painful. Yet, you are forgetting that the urethra is not designed to stretch so much and i highly doubt women who've passed kidney stones would make light of the pain. I am sure there are men who shoot out stones without much fuss...a small minority . I am pretty sure no woman who has given birth will compare it to a visit to the crapper. As for the girl...under Indian laws,she is a bachi ..the much dreaded juvenile law say she will go to a reformatory for maximum three years if found guilty.