MSD haters go and dive off in the indian ocean

[King Tendulkar]

Forget about players' date=' in fact Dhoni can pick selectors as he wishes.[/quote'] exactly

[velu]

Forget about players' date=' in fact Dhoni can pick selectors as he wishes.[/quote'] as a dhoni fan , i would be happy if he has got that sort of control :icflove:

[velu]

exactly

not exactly :giggle:

[velu]

1) Dhoni even got RP in the team when he wanted to from nowhere. This is a player who got the entire selection panel removed when they wanted to drop him and you think he cannot get whom he wants and someone like Yadav would be dropped without him wanting to 2) What team is that and how much say do you did Dhoni does or does not have? Why do promising bowlers lose their way AFTER they come to the international team? Surely the team's job is till they are selected in the international team, after that it is the captain's and senior players' job to mentor them and use them wisely? 3) Because those are the strategies which have worked at home for him. He prefers strangling the opposition and having them lose wicket to innocuous part-timers. This also has the added advantage of people calling him awesome captain for bowling people like Joginder Sharma on a hunch. He is not the one to compromise on runs for wickets which attacking captains do. However, this strategy has never worked overseas 4) Blaming Dhoni for NOTHING is much worse than the blind Sachin fans who used to defend him and you used to hate them for the same reason.

1) Wrong info . Mama vetoed and saved dhoni . Its novice to think that dhoni dismissed all the selectors. 2) If you blame dhoni for our bowlers poor performance , then praise him for the achievements of our youbg batsmen. According to MTC logic kohli and pujaras performance is ebcause of MSD. :two_thumbs_up: 3) When was our team did well in overseas. Still dhonis overseas is better than any other indian captains record. 4) You cheeky bugger. Many times in noticed in recent times that you are complimenting sachin fans indirectly . I would say they are as worse as imran khan fans . I am not going to fall for it. :--D Anywya if u blame dhoni for everything that goes wrong, u praise him for everything that doesnt go wrong .

But when the bowlers fall away AFTER joining the international team, then people do see a pattern. There are many who dazzled in their first appearance in the team when they were raw and did what they wanted. However, after a few matches under captain cool, they lost their way. BK has completely altered his length and line and become a run saving bowler. Just one example When a board and a team starts earning untold money, it attracts more and more talent which it never had. If despite that, you are telling me one form of the game is completely bare, I will say it is not physically possible and goes completely beyond all logic. The easiest way to get into the Indian team today is be a bowler. Yet, what is broken? Even if some show spark, what happens after a few matches under Dhoni?

How many pace bowlers did well under dada/ sachin for extended period of time ??? :hmmm:

[Austin 3:!6]

Jeez you guys still fighting...Dive dive:hitler: I want to see Velu and MTC getting wet together :hehe:

[velu]

like to remind our fellow ICFers about one old incident.. when india lost vs bangladesh in sachins 100th 100 match , MTC blamed our bowlers.. so not only dhoni who blames our bowlers , MTC too blame our bowlers ( to defend our bhagwan ) :hehe: i know this will hurt MTC bad .. real bad :phehehe: B->

[velu]

Jeez you guys still fighting...Dive dive:hitler: I want to see Velu and MTC getting wet together :hehe:

i would if MTC is a girl .. nothing better than screwing a sachista :phehehe: considering the content of MTCs posts , i thought MTC might be a girl/women/aunty/grandma but my sources like sabby n slicker confirmed that MTC is a guy :sherlock:

[express bowling]

as a dhoni fan ' date=' i would be happy if he has got that sort of control :icflove:[/quote'] If we take a more neutral view of Dhoni's captaincy, he is a much better captain to batsmen than to bowlers. His decisions regarding picking the right batsmen for the right format has been mostly spot on. Especially in recent times. The only decision I did not like was sending Yuvraj to bat at no.4 in ODIs. But, nobody likes every decision of another person. He has promoted and supported Rahane, Pujara, Dhawan etc. All correct choices. In a nutshell ... Dhoni understands what is required to have a good batting side, whether in tests or in ODIs. BUT When it comes to bowling Dhoni has continuously picked wrong bowlers. A poor Ishant Sharma. A " fit for ICU " Zaheer. He has used attacking bowlers as defensive options. Ashwin, BK, Umesh. He has ignored a genuine fast bowler with a strike rate of 46 in tests ... Umesh. We can go on .... Dhoni has stated during the recent NZ tour that he realizes ,after playing a few tests outside the subcontinent, that Indian seamers need to hit the deck hard when the ball is not swinging. Most people who know about cricket already knew this. But Dhoni learnt about this rudimentary aspect of pace bowling only after a long captaincy stint. In a nutshell .... Dhoni does not understand bowling or bowlers well enough when you compare him to other cricketers. Hence, his reliance on an unfit Zaheer to manage the pacers onfield. In test matches, bowling is very very important. This aspect of Dhoni has caused big problems for Dhoni , the test captain, in overseas tests.

[PBN]

like to remind our fellow ICFers about one old incident.. when india lost vs bangladesh in sachins 100th 100 match , MTC blamed our bowlers.. so not only dhoni who blames our bowlers , MTC too blame our bowlers ( to defend our bhagwan ) :hehe: i know this will hurt MTC bad .. real bad :phehehe: B->

:hysterical::hysterical:

[CSK Fan]

like to remind our fellow ICFers about one old incident.. when india lost vs bangladesh in sachins 100th 100 match , MTC blamed our bowlers.. so not only dhoni who blames our bowlers , MTC too blame our bowlers ( to defend our bhagwan ) :hehe: i know this will hurt MTC bad .. real bad :phehehe: B->

No sorry. Even ignoring the fact that that was not the same attack, I clearly blamed Dhoni for failing to defend and use our bowlers more. So my stance hasn't changed at all, it is the same, Dhoni is unable to use our bowlers. You have to try harder to 'hurt' me

[CSK Fan]

1) Wrong info . Mama vetoed and saved dhoni . Its novice to think that dhoni dismissed all the selectors.

Same thing isn't it. The new selectors will know Mama is always there to back Dhoni on any thing. The precedent has been set. Whether it is Dhoni or Mama, Dhoni has power and can chose whom he likes

2) If you blame dhoni for our bowlers poor performance ' date=' then praise him for the achievements of our youbg batsmen. According to MTC logic kohli and pujaras performance is ebcause of MSD. :two_thumbs_up:[/quote'] Of course. It also helped that we had great batsmen to mentor these guys when they came which we lack in bowling. Dhoni clearly knows how to use his batsmen. He has never intefered with a batsman, gives them good rope, lets them play in their style. Pujara can be defensive, Kohli can be aggressive and he is comfortable with both. However, it is while bowling where he clearly wants all his bowlers to bowl in one style only. That CSK team is filled with same kind of trundlers when there was an entire array of fast bowling resources to chose from in IPL, kind of proves my point Actually there was a good period when our team was on the upswing overseas. In fact, till about 2008, we had the best overseas record of any team touring Australia in 2000s, and we always gave good fight in Australia, all series were close, no whitewashes. We won a series in England. South Africa and New Zealand were our biggest challenge. No, I am just trying to show that the very same people who blamed Sachin fans for being blind followers have now become blind followers of Dhoni themselves. Sachin's team mainly did bad because of all the fixing going on. Which bowlers were even there? However, under Dada, pace bowling did show an upswing and we had some good matches in England and Australia. He knew how to make the best out of an average bowling attack. IMO, potential wise, we currently have the best bowlers than we ever had in history. Reasons for this is obvious, more money, IPL, better coaching. However, we have failed to utilize the same in internationals

[CSK Fan]

Leorahi follows SJ's advice

[velu]

in bold

Same thing isn't it. The new selectors will know Mama is always there to back Dhoni on any thing. The precedent has been set. Whether it is Dhoni or Mama, Dhoni has power and can chose whom he likes Its not dhonis fault if selectors are afraid of him. If our selectors are brave then sachin might have retired with over 55 average. Of course. It also helped that we had great batsmen to mentor these guys when they came which we lack in bowling. Dhoni clearly knows how to use his batsmen. He has never intefered with a batsman, gives them good rope, lets them play in their style. Pujara can be defensive, Kohli can be aggressive and he is comfortable with both. However, it is while bowling where he clearly wants all his bowlers to bowl in one style only. That CSK team is filled with same kind of trundlers when there was an entire array of fast bowling resources to chose from in IPL, kind of proves my point This is the first time you are giving credit to Dhoni. :--D Actually there was a good period when our team was on the upswing overseas. In fact, till about 2008, we had the best overseas record of any team touring Australia in 2000s, and we always gave good fight in Australia, all series were close, no whitewashes. We won a series in England. South Africa and New Zealand were our biggest challenge. Difference this time is , we played with so many passengers who were past their dates. Last 2 series in saffaland and NZ shows , dhoni is a worse test captain. No, I am just trying to show that the very same people who blamed Sachin fans for being blind followers have now become blind followers of Dhoni themselves. Dhoni fans are kewl and awesome . But sachin fans are not. Sachinstas are blind supporters of sachin and not indian cricket. Sachin's team mainly did bad because of all the fixing going on. Which bowlers were even there? However, under Dada, pace bowling did show an upswing and we had some good matches in England and Australia. He knew how to make the best out of an average bowling attack. IMO, potential wise, we currently have the best bowlers than we ever had in history. Reasons for this is obvious, more money, IPL, better coaching. However, we have failed to utilize the same in internationals So dhoni takes less blame now.

[velu]

No sorry. Even ignoring the fact that that was not the same attack, I clearly blamed Dhoni for failing to defend and use our bowlers more. So my stance hasn't changed at all, it is the same, Dhoni is unable to use our bowlers. You have to try harder to 'hurt' me

i know you wont show ur feelings even when u r hurt .. :--D i can hurt you real bad.. i know your achilles heel .. but i wont .. many of your well-wishers requested me not to irritate you beyond some point :winky:

[Fontaine]

No sorry. Even ignoring the fact that that was not the same attack, I clearly blamed Dhoni for failing to defend and use our bowlers more. So my stance hasn't changed at all, it is the same, Dhoni is unable to use our bowlers. You have to try harder to 'hurt' me

It's hard to tell what the captain can do when the bowling is so crap.

[achilles]

Thank God many of us know how to swim.

[kirisatha96]

Take out Dhoni as captain and put in Pujara for Tests.

[Sachin=GOD]

Take out Dhoni as captain and put in Pujara for Tests.

This.

[Vilander]

If we take a more neutral view of Dhoni's captaincy, he is a much better captain to batsmen than to bowlers. His decisions regarding picking the right batsmen for the right format has been mostly spot on. Especially in recent times. The only decision I did not like was sending Yuvraj to bat at no.4 in ODIs. But, nobody likes every decision of another person. He has promoted and supported Rahane, Pujara, Dhawan etc. All correct choices. In a nutshell ... Dhoni understands what is required to have a good batting side, whether in tests or in ODIs. BUT When it comes to bowling Dhoni has continuously picked wrong bowlers. A poor Ishant Sharma. A " fit for ICU " Zaheer. He has used attacking bowlers as defensive options. Ashwin, BK, Umesh. He has ignored a genuine fast bowler with a strike rate of 46 in tests ... Umesh. We can go on .... Dhoni has stated during the recent NZ tour that he realizes ,after playing a few tests outside the subcontinent, that Indian seamers need to hit the deck hard when the ball is not swinging. Most people who know about cricket already knew this. But Dhoni learnt about this rudimentary aspect of pace bowling only after a long captaincy stint. In a nutshell .... Dhoni does not understand bowling or bowlers well enough when you compare him to other cricketers. Hence, his reliance on an unfit Zaheer to manage the pacers onfield. In test matches, bowling is very very important. This aspect of Dhoni has caused big problems for Dhoni , the test captain, in overseas tests.

good one. Dhoni goes by gut insticnt, old boys network, commitment, loyalty etc. He strategizes only to survive as a captain, survive as a bowler for Ishant for example, stay captain etc not to win test matches abroad, he feels winning in India is sufficient its just beyond him. He is more operational than strategic, this is why he needs a strong strategist as coach to thrive for example Flemming,Gary etc.

[Vilander]

Take out Dhoni as captain and put in Pujara for Tests.

But first Pujara needs to stay fit and bat overseas.