Dil Dil India Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 If you're an Indian fan chances are you've had the 72-50(or some version of it) thrown at you at some point or the other. While it is true that Pakistan have had the better HTH record, does it offset what India have achieved? Take ODIs for example. Pakistan have won 72 and India have won 50 in their HTH battles. India though have won 2 World Cups and 2 Champions Trophies whereas Pakistan have won only one World Cup. That is a massive advantage that I don't think a better HTH record negates or even comes close to negating. The WC 5-0 is just the icing on the cake. India won a WC almost a decade before Pakistan did(without rain intervention after getting all out for 72) and now have double the number of WCs Pakistan have. The CT is a trophy that Pakistan have never won and India have won twice; one whilst being undefeated and that came away from the subcontinent too. In T20s - both India and Pak have won 1 major trophy each; but India were the first to win it and beat Pakistan to win it. Pakistani fans may not admit it but they would readily swap their 2009 triumph over Sri Lanka for the 2007 one. The HTH here is 5-1 in favour of India and India also have a better overall W/L ratio if you exclude minnows(not that W/L ratio matters at all in the format but it is often brought up by Pak fans). In tests - yes, Pakistan have the better overall record and also a 12-9 HTH advantage. But: India have won 3 test series in West Indies, Pakistan have not won any. In SA and Aus and against these two sides, India have a better W/L ratio. India also won a series in England before Pakistan managed to. This does not necessarily make them better but it is a far cry from what some fans would have you believe. In short: Pakistan lead the HTH 85-64 across formats but India have 5 ICC Trophies to Pakistan's 2 (including an additional World Cup) and test series wins in more countries.
Asim Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Talking overall: Pakistan till 2003 (at least since I started to watch) India since 2003
Dil Dil India Posted April 1, 2014 Author Posted April 1, 2014 That's interesting. It is a view that is all too common on a certain other forum. It is a bit of a low blow to be honest (not singling you out) but from 1947-2014 I would take what India have achieved and the additional major trophies in a heartbeat over Pakistan's bare trophy cabinet. India really have pulled away with the last World Cup and Champions Trophy. Easily. I would still probably take Pakistan's test record though.
Midfielder Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Lot of it was a result of home cooked umpiring and seam lifting. I would take pakistan record with a grain of salt because of home cooked umpiring.
Sarkar Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 India won more trophies achieved most trophies with average bowling attack was no.1 test team for over two years take sharjah out of Pakistan record they aren't really good side.
jonas10 Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Comparing overall record is so lame. I live in calgary and the big sport here is hockey. I have no idea the overall record between Calgary and Edmonton... All I know is who always wins in playoffs. Same with Germany and England in football. England actually has a better friendlies record but germans only lost to England 1 time (1966 when the brits stole the cup) in the world cup. Let pak win all the Asia Cup matches where Dhoni yuvi rania don't play and they give it 100% and India is scared of the "beast". We all know best vs best matches India dominates. :beer: Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
undisputed chap Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Overall Pakistan has been better because of better phasst bowlers.
Utalk Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Lot of it was a result of home cooked umpiring and seam lifting. I would take pakistan record with a grain of salt because of home cooked umpiring. Were pakistani umpires umpiring 87 series in India? Were there pakistani umpires in 99 Madras and Eden Gardens? Were there pakistani umpires in Banglore 05? Fact is we won the series in Ind 87. Won two tests in 99 and drew in 05. As for our ODI H2H our best came on Indian soil with Indian umpires. Coming to the OP. We were both rubbish till 70s. Both had their moments in 80s. We were better in 90s. Winning 3 back to back series in Eng won few times in NZ and drew in SA whilst you had that embarrassing record of one win overseas in something like 15 years. In 2000s you were clearly better in both forms. As of now you are slightly better in tests and way ahead in ODIs. Sharamnaak signature.
Asim Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 India won more trophies achieved most trophies with average bowling attack was no.1 test team for over two years take sharjah out of Pakistan record they aren't really good side. How are you?
vijay50 Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 India started doing well after Jan 1,2001. Even though they were slightly better than Pak in this period(2001-2014). Till then it was all catching up for all the defeats in 80's and 90's against Pakistan, the culprit being Sharjah ones. Multinational tournaments India has a better record. I think once money started pouring in, self belief became better with players like Ganguly, Dravid etc, . Also not playing in Sharjah helped.
Asim Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 India started doing well after Jan 1,2001. Even though they were slightly better than Pak in this period(2001-2014). Till then it was all catching up for all the defeats in 80's and 90's against Pakistan, the culprit being Sharjah ones. Multinational tournaments India has a better record. I think once money started pouring in, self belief became better with players like Ganguly, Dravid etc, . Also not playing in Sharjah helped. :giggle::cantstop: uknow what I mean
Dil Dil India Posted April 2, 2014 Author Posted April 2, 2014 Typical cop out by citing a period. No one said India were better in the 1990s nor am I talking about just the present. If we're talking currently Pakistan's last away series win was before India's last away series win (excluding Bangladesh and Zimbabwe) and Pakistan have not won a test series since early 2012; let's not go down that road or have the folks at pakaupassion tell you otherwise. Don't give a cop out by citing periods where India sucked or pretending as if we are talking about the present. We're talking overall 1947-2014. India have won 5 major trophies to 2 with Pakistan taking a decade more than India to win the biggest one, being second to India to another and never having won the third. That is dominance. Tests are a different story though.
Gollum Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Don't forget B&H 1985. Was as big as a WC that time and guess who we beat in the finals:winky:
Dil Dil India Posted April 2, 2014 Author Posted April 2, 2014 Yes I didn't bring that up. Thought it best to stick to ICC Trophies only. Otherwise could have brought up Asia Cups too (India 5, Pak 2) and what not; but the parosis will bring out Kitply and Miranda Cup. I acknowledge it was a big trophy Benson and Hodges, one which every member nation played; but felt it prudent not to mention it.
velu Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Were pakistani umpires umpiring 87 series in India? Were there pakistani umpires in 99 Madras and Eden Gardens? Were there pakistani umpires in Banglore 05? Fact is we won the series in Ind 87. Won two tests in 99 and drew in 05. Sharamnaak signature. you guys mastered the art of using bottle caps and cheated us on many games till early 90s :hitler: sanity returned to normal level once bottle caps are banned
Soorma_Bhopali Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 OVERALL INDIA HAS BEEN MUCH BETTER AS THEY ALWAYS WON THE HIGH STAKES /TESTS OF SUBSTANCE..The much higher number of ICC Trophies tell that ..Head to Head record is in favour of Pak only because of those fixed contests in Sharjah which used to happen dime a dozen till mid-90s and where organizers, entire environment and other stuff was hostile enough ..I think there must have been atleast 25-30 matches there in mid-80s and early mid-90s and varring couple of them , Pakistan always won ..now we know why it used to be that way ..If I can point out an instance , from the 1996 World Cup Qtr Final Victory ; India have always had the edge over Pakistan.
Soorma_Bhopali Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 MEri taraf se Pakistan ke Word T20 se out hone par ek vishesh sandesh MEri taraf se Pakistan ke Word T20 se out hone par ek vishesh sandesh
Iconoclast Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 India have been better in ICC events because of flat pitches ... take those out and Pakistan edges India ... not by a whole lot but enough.
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