G_B_ Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Let's put things into perspective here. The Delhi BJP unit were in opposition for 15 years. They had 15 years to plan on how to get back into power. Had they spent that time strategizing, rather than bickering amongst themselves and mismanaging MCD, the need for Kiran Bedi would never have arisen. Today, they stand utterly humiliated by a party that has not even been in existence for 3 years. They can cry all they want about Bedi being parachuted, ultimately, they have themselves to blame. Had they rallied together and won this election, they would've at least been in a position to have their grievances heard. What leverage do they have now? +1 As you said before I thought making Bedi CM candidate sent a bad signal. But you also have to take into account why Shah was forced to go for Bedi. These BJP supporters in Delhi who are happy at the loss. Maybe they needed to be more vocal and involved in their local BJP units. Quite frankly an underperfoming bunch of wimps. 15 years and they cant shake things up? The same can be said about a lot of units within the BJP Orissa comes to mind
Sachin=GOD Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Let's put things into perspective here. The Delhi BJP unit were in opposition for 15 years. They had 15 years to plan on how to get back into power. Had they spent that time strategizing, rather than bickering amongst themselves and mismanaging MCD, the need for Kiran Bedi would never have arisen. Today, they stand utterly humiliated by a party that has not even been in existence for 3 years. They can cry all they want about Bedi being parachuted, ultimately, they have themselves to blame. Had they rallied together and won this election, they would've at least been in a position to have their grievances heard. What leverage do they have now? People who have worked for the party all their life don't want to be manhandled or insulted by the top leadership, especially when they know that the once the party wins, they will be ignored by the same leadership which is now forcing them to work for an outsider. When I said during/after Lok Sabha elections that Modi/Shah should not insult the seniors so much I was laughed at. The likes of LK Advani/Dr. Joshi/Yashwant Sinha etc may be sitting quietly now but BJP leaders/workers all over the country saw how badly these seniors were treated so when their own turn came, they realized that they would be treated in the same manner (basically totally ignored) so they also didn't work.
Sachin=GOD Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 BTW with this massive win AAP also got 3 Rajya Sabha seats - thats 3 more no-votes for BJP probably.
Malcolm Merlyn Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 BTW with this massive win AAP also got 3 Rajya Sabha seats - thats 3 more no-votes for BJP probably. Which is why when Modi meets Pawar on 15th Feb he may support him for the Bcci post in return of support of his MPs.Win-Win for them both.
G_B_ Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 People who have worked for the party all their life don't want to be manhandled or insulted by the top leadership, especially when they know that the once the party wins, they will be ignored by the same leadership which is now forcing them to work for an outsider. When I said during/after Lok Sabha elections that Modi/Shah should not insult the seniors so much I was laughed at. The likes of LK Advani/Dr. Joshi/Yashwant Sinha etc may be sitting quietly now but BJP leaders/workers all over the country saw how badly these seniors were treated so when their own turn came, they realized that they would be treated in the same manner (basically totally ignored) so they also didn't work. BTW with this massive win AAP also got 3 Rajya Sabha seats - thats 3 more no-votes for BJP probably. I think AAP will be flexible on the economic issues. Such as say insurance bill etc I will be disappointed if they are not. Kejriwal has promised cheap electricity so they need to get the coal bill off the ground. (assuming it comes to 2018)
RedFever Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 BTW with this massive win AAP also got 3 Rajya Sabha seats - thats 3 more no-votes for BJP probably. not until Jan 2018.
bulbul Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 When I said during/after Lok Sabha elections that Modi/Shah should not insult the seniors so much I was laughed at. The likes of LK Advani/Dr. Joshi/Yashwant Sinha etc may be sitting quietly now but BJP leaders/workers all over the country saw how badly these seniors were treated so when their own turn came, they realized that they would be treated in the same manner (basically totally ignored) so they also didn't work. Yashwant Sinha retired and allowed his son to grow , now Jayanth sinha is minister in central Government. Advani - Don't you think he should own the responsibility for debacle of BJP in last 10 years? we are laughing at Rahul baba,but Advani was in similar state for last 10 years without taking any responsibility,no one even questioned him till Modi raised to top. Did Advani started any initiative to grow party? why did BJP Delhi unit became so pathetic in last 15 years during thsi time Advani is in Delhi only? Don't let your blind following of Advani to fool you from reality.
Texan Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 I think we are over analysis these Delhi elections. The Delhi voter tends to be very fickle. I mean the same voter that gave Congress 7/7 LS seats in 2009 reduced them to 0 in 2014 and vice versa for BJP. I had read an article before these election results were out (I can't seem to find it now) analyzing Delhi election results since the 1990s across all election types (MCD, Assembly, LS). One observation that the article made was when all these elections across different types are taken sequentially, then the winner of the previous election almost always lost the next.
Sachin=GOD Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Yashwant Sinha retired and allowed his son to grow , now Jayanth sinha is minister in central Government. Advani - Don't you think he should own the responsibility for debacle of BJP in last 10 years? we are laughing at Rahul baba,but Advani was in similar state for last 10 years without taking any responsibility,no one even questioned him till Modi raised to top. Did Advani started any initiative to grow party? why did BJP Delhi unit became so pathetic in last 15 years during thsi time Advani is in Delhi only? Don't let your blind following of Advani to fool you from reality. 2004 election was under the leadership of AtalJi and the campaign strategy was made primarily by Pramod Mahajan/Jaitley etc. 2009 BJP was lost under LKA but it was nowhere near the humiliation brought upon the Congress by 44 seats in Lok Sabha. Also, I'm not asking for him (or other seniors) to be given big posts etc - just asking for them to be given the respect they deserve and for them to be kept in the decision making process. In their hubris, Modi/Shah has totally ignored and sidelined every senior leader at the national level - if you think that message doesn't go to senior leaders at the state level you are just asking to be fooled. When Delhi unit leaders see that even the founders of the party have been ignored when Modi/Shah felt they were not needed, why would they work for an outsider like Bedi - they already know that win or lose, they will be ignored and insulted so why the hell would they work? Show them some respect for their 30-40 years of work for the party and they will continue to work. I'm not a blind follower of anyone in politics. Though its quite ironic that a Modi Bhakt like you is calling someone else a "blind follower".
G_B_ Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 2004 election was under the leadership of AtalJi and the campaign strategy was made primarily by Pramod Mahajan/Jaitley etc. 2009 BJP was lost under LKA but it was nowhere near the humiliation brought upon the Congress by 44 seats in Lok Sabha. Also, I'm not asking for him (or other seniors) to be given big posts etc - just asking for them to be given the respect they deserve and for them to be kept in the decision making process. In their hubris, Modi/Shah has totally ignored and sidelined every senior leader at the national level - if you think that message doesn't go to senior leaders at the state level you are just asking to be fooled. When Delhi unit leaders see that even the founders of the party have been ignored when Modi/Shah felt they were not needed, why would they work for an outsider like Bedi - they already know that win or lose, they will be ignored and insulted so why the hell would they work? Show them some respect for their 30-40 years of work for the party and they will continue to work. I'm not a blind follower of anyone in politics. Though its quite ironic that a Modi Bhakt like you is calling someone else a "blind follower". Thats not a fair analysis lets look at Modi's track record. Became CM candidate when Rajnath was President (1) Fully backed Vasundara Raje against the remnants of the Shekhawat faction as CM candidate. (2) Backed sitting CM's Shivraj Chouhan and Raman Singh (have continued to back Raman Singh despite recent rebellions) After General Elections (1) Maharashtra: Death of Gopinath Munde left a big hole in Maharashtra BJP. Tier 2 leaders were Khadse Twade and Phadnavis with Gadkari in the cabinet in an important portfolio. I disagree with the choice of CM as Phadnavis. But you can blame him for that choice because Gadkari and Munde were the two poles of Mahrashtra BJP, one is dead the other moved to Delhi. What remained was tier 2 leadership. Phadnavis was more of an RSS choice. You would have a point if Munde was alive and he was overlooked. (2) Haryana: BJP did not have any leadership or cadre base. Captain Abhimanyu was a novice. Chose Khattar. It was a blank slate for the BJP. (3) Jharkhand. With Arjun Munda defeated chose 5 time MLA and former deputy CM Das. AKA state leadership. (4) JnK, it was like a blank slate but but by all accounts by the looks of it state leadership to get key posts. I think its time to admit that Delhi was an incredibly faction driven state unit. Its not as if these guys made any progress with or without Modi. If BJP wins Bihar and he does not make sumo CM then yes you have a legitimate point
bulbul Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 @S!=G, People are sidelined because they are refused to go with dignity. After 10 years of mismanagement heads should role. After 2004, its Advani who was face of BJP..what he did to improve BJP's position? he even opposed Modi.Why should anyone tolerate some one who is not interested in development of party? You are a Advani bhakt as much as i am Modi bhakt. :icflove:
Precambrian Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 BJP will only gain from here. Media will start tracking Kejri - he's got such a huge mandate on such huge programs that he is bound to fail. And then it will start!
Precambrian Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Let's put things into perspective here. The Delhi BJP unit were in opposition for 15 years. They had 15 years to plan on how to get back into power. Had they spent that time strategizing, rather than bickering amongst themselves and mismanaging MCD, the need for Kiran Bedi would never have arisen. Today, they stand utterly humiliated by a party that has not even been in existence for 3 years. They can cry all they want about Bedi being parachuted, ultimately, they have themselves to blame. Had they rallied together and won this election, they would've at least been in a position to have their grievances heard. What leverage do they have now? They're so terrible that in 2013, when Congress was reeling from anti incumbency - they actually managed to lose their vote share by 3% - When congress went down from 40% to 25%! Even in 2008, before AAP came into fore, Congress lost 8% vote share which was gobbled up by "Others" - the BSPs and the types. Its that bad .
HippoSucks Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 BJP will only gain from here. Media will start tracking Kejri - he's got such a huge mandate on such huge programs that he is bound to fail. And then it will start! http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/BJP4India/new-new-election-manifesto-07042014/10 The media aren't going to let go BJP of their promises either. I read this somewhere else: if AAP fail to meet their promises, 90 lakh people will be angry. If BJP fail, 1.2 billion.
G_B_ Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/BJP4India/new-new-election-manifesto-07042014/10 The media aren't going to let go BJP of their promises either. I read this somewhere else: if AAP fail to meet their promises, 90 lakh people will be angry. If BJP fail, 1.2 billion. and what makes you think the BJP will let the media highlight such stuff? Expect more access and interviews. Phadnavis in maharashtra for example has given so many interviews to local marathi channels and they are certainly on board with him. Similarly i expect AK to give a lot of interviews and access than any previous Delhi CM.
Precambrian Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/BJP4India/new-new-election-manifesto-07042014/10 The media aren't going to let go BJP of their promises either. I read this somewhere else: if AAP fail to meet their promises, 90 lakh people will be angry. If BJP fail, 1.2 billion. India isn't (just) Delhi
ravishingravi Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 I honestly think this is best medicine BJP could have got. They were getting pompous and casual. Fringe elements were creating a nuisance value. We needed a political alternative. There is some gap before next election. Amit Shah is a smart person and will correct mistakes. Centre is till controlling Delhi. We also have a chance to see how AAP delivers now. It is as decisive a mandate as was possible.
Precambrian Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 AAP will take care of most of the newsbites from now on. Allowing CG to just focus n its work
Sachin=GOD Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Thats not a fair analysis lets look at Modi's track record. Became CM candidate when Rajnath was President (1) Fully backed Vasundara Raje against the remnants of the Shekhawat faction as CM candidate. (2) Backed sitting CM's Shivraj Chouhan and Raman Singh (have continued to back Raman Singh despite recent rebellions) After General Elections (1) Maharashtra: Death of Gopinath Munde left a big hole in Maharashtra BJP. Tier 2 leaders were Khadse Twade and Phadnavis with Gadkari in the cabinet in an important portfolio. I disagree with the choice of CM as Phadnavis. But you can blame him for that choice because Gadkari and Munde were the two poles of Mahrashtra BJP, one is dead the other moved to Delhi. What remained was tier 2 leadership. Phadnavis was more of an RSS choice. You would have a point if Munde was alive and he was overlooked. (2) Haryana: BJP did not have any leadership or cadre base. Captain Abhimanyu was a novice. Chose Khattar. It was a blank slate for the BJP. (3) Jharkhand. With Arjun Munda defeated chose 5 time MLA and former deputy CM Das. AKA state leadership. (4) JnK, it was like a blank slate but but by all accounts by the looks of it state leadership to get key posts. I think its time to admit that Delhi was an incredibly faction driven state unit. Its not as if these guys made any progress with or without Modi. If BJP wins Bihar and he does not make sumo CM then yes you have a legitimate point 1. Vasundhara Raje was pretty much set as BJP's CM candidate for the 2013 elections even before Modi was named Campaign Chief - there was hardly any major opposition to her being CM candidate this time. 2. There has almost NEVER been a case of a sitting CM not being made the leader of the campaign/CM candidate again for state elections in BJP. In UP he has completely ignored senior state leaders like Vinay katiyar, Surya Pratap Shahi etc - both former state Presidents. Kalyan Singh wanted to work in politics but was forced to take a Governorship with the assurance that his son would be made a Central minister - that wasn't done in the last reshuffle. In Uttrakhand there are senior leaders like Maj. Gen Khanduri and Bhagat Singh Koshyari - both former CMs and currently MPs but have been given no role in Uttrakhand politics or any National role in the BJP while that crook Ramesh Nishank (who was removed as CM because of corruption charges) is favored by Shah and will most probably be named CM candidate or state party president for next elections. In Maharashtra Fadnavis is a good choice - I agree with that. But as you already said - he was a RSS choice so they went with him. In Haryana Capt. Abhimanyu is not a novice - in fact ML Khattar is a novice in terms of contesting election or holding any major responsibility nationally. Capt. Abhimanyu contested 6 elections before this one (he lost all though :D) and has been co-incharge of various states like Punjab, Uttrakhand and even Uttar Pradesh for Lok Sabha 2014. Khattar on the other hand was Organizational Gen. Sec of the BJP in Haryana for 14 years - hasn't contested any election till now, hasn't held any big position of responsibility regarding elections and didn't even want to contest this election but was forced to do by Modi/Shah because they had already made up their mind about making him the CM candidate as he can be controlled more than Capt. Abhimanyu and he's a RSS man.
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