Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, Axl100mph said:

He gets some seam movement and the skid you mentioned because of imparting a good amount of backspin on the ball, however he needs to develop the 3 quarter seam and wobble variations to survive on flat tracks. You can't be be swing reliant in tests, be it from new or old ball. 

 

The bouncer has improved slightly ever since he did sessions with Steffan who is most likely trying to open up his front leg with the drills he has made him do.

 

He has always had crossed legs which never allows you to finish your action completely which is something of paramount importance when trying to bowl short with purpose. 

steffan jones seems to be really good.

 

Regd the legs, he needs to be careful because his action can apply a lot of pressure on the knees and calves. I hope he fine tunes it, otherwise his career may get truncated

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

If you would have read my comment in detail, I made it very clear that why despite being a huge pool of quicks, we are not selecting the pace bowlers and backing them enough.

If they won't play internationals, how  they will clock high speeds ? All the quicks we have produced are getting rotten in domestic circuit because of our pitches heavily tilted towards the low bounce or batting highways. There are hardly enough pitches in India which favours quicks.

 

When a bowler is backed even slightly, I.e. Varun Aaron, Umran Malik they have clocked 150+ multiple times in International Cricket. 

 

Every IPL season, we unearth fast bowlers, who turn the heat on speedometer. But the next stage, the progression is where they don't get a chance.

 

In terms of raw pace and the lineup of fast bowlers. Yes, India has more fast bowlers than Pakistan...

 

Tyagi, Umran, Sen, Mohsin, Saini, Harshit all have clocked 149+ in IPL. Umran and Tyagi have clocked 150+ multiple times

 

Nagarkoti has clocked 146-147, Prasidh 147-148, Yudhvir has clocked 144-145. Then there is Mayank Yadav who is untested on IPL speed guns but in domestic speed guns he is as quick as Harshit.

 

Avinash Singh is another 150+ pacer but as I haven't seen him hit those speeds, verdict is still out. But his runup and action is carbon copy of Umran.

 

In Pakistan, the scenario is different, they pickup the fastest pacers first and then they work on it. In India unfortunately, the pickup the pacers who has best control and then they leave it in internationals to learn of their own.

it's not just those. in one of the IPLs, the likes of siraj, prasidh, etc also crossed 150.

[Nikhil_cric]

Jimmy Anderson 143 kph on previous delivery at 41 and in his 20th over. Jeez

[singhvivek141]

8 minutes ago, Vijy said:

it's not just those. in one of the IPLs, the likes of siraj, prasidh, etc also crossed 150.

True, Siraj, Bumrah, Shami, Umesh all have clocked 148+ in IPL, Asif is another one who is 148+...Sangwan has bowled 146-147, Mavi bowled 144-149 in 2018 IPL.

Rahul Shukla was a brute fast bowler..Pawan Suyal, Krishnakant Upadhyay so many of them have clocked 144+ many times that I can't even recall all their names. None of them were backed ever.

[the don]

23 minutes ago, Vijy said:

there are several who clocked 150 in just one IPL; I forget the edition number. I remember even siraj had hit 150 once in that IPL. All the data is somewhere in this thread, but it is 1400+ pages.

 

also, just to focus on the highlighted part, umran clocked 156-157 kph. I don't recall any Pak player after shoaib and sami doing that.

Wahab and Haris both.Wahab did it in a test match at the oval no less. Talking about international cricket here. So many from Pakistan have clocked 153-154 kph.

[Vijy]

Just now, the don said:

Wahab and Haris both.Wahab did it in a test match at the oval no less. Talking about international cricket here. So many from Pakistan have clocked 153-154 kph.

Umran's 156 was in ODI vs SL, so it is an international match. I didn't see either wahab or haris rauf bowl at that pace. just to be clear, I am not questioning you (just saying that I have not followed all the matches)

[the don]

2 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Umran's 156 was in ODI vs SL, so it is an international match. I didn't see either wahab or haris rauf bowl at that pace. just to be clear, I am not questioning you (just saying that I have not followed all the matches)

Ive shared those somewhere in this thread i am sure.

[MediumPacer]

Pacers come on and runs start to flow and match gets lost and speedometer goes missing ,typical indian cricket.

 

 

Didnt use madhwal either who is a specialist death bowler. Mavi is done ,he should stick to domestic cricket.

[MediumPacer]

31 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Jimmy Anderson 143 kph on previous delivery at 41 and in his 20th over. Jeez

Not looking quick.

[MediumPacer]

27 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

True, Siraj, Bumrah, Shami, Umesh all have clocked 148+ in IPL, Asif is another one who is 148+...Sangwan has bowled 146-147, Mavi bowled 144-149 in 2018 IPL.

Rahul Shukla was a brute fast bowler..Pawan Suyal, Krishnakant Upadhyay so many of them have clocked 144+ many times that I can't even recall all their names. None of them were backed ever.

Even mavi ,koti all clocked 140 but now it's all over.in india best is to pick finger spinners.

[singhvivek141]

22 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Pacers come on and runs start to flow and match gets lost and speedometer goes missing ,typical indian cricket.

 

 

Didnt use madhwal either who is a specialist death bowler. Mavi is done ,he should stick to domestic cricket.

Precisely now why he is able to find a place in Indian Cricket Team.

Tomorrow if Umran and Tyagi start bowling in 115 kph...all these "ex cricketers" and "cricket experts" will start twitter campaigns for their inclusion in the national team.

 

This era is so much worse than the era of 90's to early 00's where atleast we had Srinath, Agarkar, Zak, Nehra, Sree, Munaf who all were quick enough to hit early 140's.

[wazza]

1 hour ago, Axl100mph said:

As if the kind of bowling he did in that match wouldnt be relevant and threatening in a test match. 

 

 

Thankyou for letting me know who not to take seriously over here. 

 

 

 

 

It wouldn't be. He is short, injury prone, genetically weak. Nothing bowler compared to shaheen. 

 

In a few years tyagi will be well ahead of him. 

 

Shaheen is the best test bowler from Pakistan right now. Possibly best Asian bowler after bumrah. 

[MediumPacer]

6 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Precisely now why he is able to find a place in Indian Cricket Team.

Tomorrow if Umran and Tyagi start bowling in 115 kph...all these "ex cricketers" and "cricket experts" will start twitter campaigns for their inclusion in the national team.

 

This era is so much worse than the era of 90's to early 00's where atleast we had Srinath, Agarkar, Zak, Nehra, Sree, Munaf who all were quick enough to hit early 140's.

These pitches are also so poor,I have lost interest in following it .

[clownkiller]

4 hours ago, Axl100mph said:

There is a reason Tait was waxing lyrical about him and not Shaheen in every interview or exchange of his

i honestly rate naseem more than shaheen...Naseem for me has more talent...shaheen is just a guy who bowls full lol...got smashed by wade...naseem vs wade would have been a different story...naseem is bowler whos going to take wickets in every phase of the match while shaheen is only good with new ball...right now for me siraj and naseem have more potential than any other bowler around 

[Axl100mph]

3 hours ago, Vijy said:

steffan jones seems to be really good.

 

Regd the legs, he needs to be careful because his action can apply a lot of pressure on the knees and calves. I hope he fine tunes it, otherwise his career may get truncated

He had better allignment 3 years ago when he debuted. Back then mudassar Nazar had worked with him but the issue was that while he was bowling a lot quicker, he didnt know how to take wickets and use different angles with that action. That is a great reason for why he averaged so high in his first year of test cricket. 

 

Then after getting dropped later that year, he made a change and reverted back to his old action with which he had generated all that hype in age group cricket. 

 

He doesnt have that effortless 90-92mph pace (still bowls that speed in white ball but with contraction) which he had in 2020 because this allignment is not quite as efficient but it has made him a better bowler who is more attuned with his action. 

 

I am hoping a coach, be it Steffan or Morne can teach him to open his left hip when he plants his front leg. That will solve a lot of the counter rotation and make him a better bowler than what he currently is. 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Axl100mph

[Axl100mph]

2 hours ago, clownkiller said:

i honestly rate naseem more than shaheen...Naseem for me has more talent...shaheen is just a guy who bowls full lol...got smashed by wade...naseem vs wade would have been a different story...naseem is bowler whos going to take wickets in every phase of the match while shaheen is only good with new ball...right now for me siraj and naseem have more potential than any other bowler around 

Shaheen pre elbow injury was a different bowler to what he is now. He has altered his action now to save himself from that tendonitis and as a consequence has lost a yard.

But he has several other attributes such as a very resolute character, leadership and a sheer will to win which are all rare. You see that even in how he has now started developing his batting. This is why I still back him to find ways to be his old self again.

On Siraj, yes I rate him very highly but from what I have seen he is excellent with his attacking skills; a lot better than Naseem with the new ball but not quite the same with his defensive ones or at the same level with reverse as Naseem is, although I may have missed any recent improvement he may have made. 

[Axl100mph]

3 hours ago, wazza said:

It wouldn't be. He is short, injury prone, genetically weak. Nothing bowler compared to shaheen. 

 

In a few years tyagi will be well ahead of him. 

 

Shaheen is the best test bowler from Pakistan right now. Possibly best Asian bowler after bumrah. 

"Genetically weak"

 

True gem.

[wazza]

3 hours ago, Axl100mph said:

"Genetically weak"

 

True gem.

He is though. Frail body. 

 

It's funny you quoted that cause we had this little Muppet running his mouth about genetics recently until he was shown his place. 

 

 

[wazza]

4 hours ago, Axl100mph said:

He had better allignment 3 years ago when he debuted. Back then mudassar Nazar had worked with him but the issue was that while he was bowling a lot quicker, he didnt know how to take wickets and use different angles with that action. That is a great reason for why he averaged so high in his first year of test cricket. 

 

Then after getting dropped later that year, he made a change and reverted back to his old action with which he had generated all that hype in age group cricket. 

 

He doesnt have that effortless 90-92mph pace (still bowls that speed in white ball but with contraction) which he had in 2020 because this allignment is not quite as efficient but it has made him a better bowler who is more attuned with his action. 

 

I am hoping a coach, be it Steffan or Morne can teach him to open his left hip when he plants his front leg. That will solve a lot of the counter rotation and make him a better bowler than what he currently is. 

 

 

One thing about pak I like, they debuted their faith bowlers early and don't wait till they are past sell date. Same with aus. 

 

Indians and England love trundlers. They are Infatuated with trundlers. 

.if naseem was indian, I don't rate him highly as I do shaheen cause he is weak but had he played for India, he would be asked to suffer in ranji. Toiled hard in ranji and debuted in t20. He may be given a chance once he turns 30. We have trundler quotas.

[MK55]

Gerald Coetzee of SA is quick. Was comfortably bowling high 140s. Should be teaming up with Nortje in test matches. In contrast, we’d have Unadkad, Mukesh and Siraj lol. Downright embarrassing.

What’s up with Tyagi n Harshit? From the discussions here, it seems that at least Harshit is getting some game time. Tyagi seems totally lost in the system.
Need Harshit Tyagi Umran Bumrah and Siraj.

 

Also why da fq are both Unadkad and Mukesh playing ODIs. Is Agarkar any good??

sorry state of affairs.