Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Lone Wolf]

17 minutes ago, MK55 said:

I think Tyagi leap frogs every bowler out there. I don’t care, think of it as bias or whatever but he needs to be given priority over others.  It’s good in the long term for the team especially if we are looking to perform overseas. Also makes it entertaining for the viewers. 

We haven’t got a single genuine quick right now in the side. With the way Siraj has downgraded, it will be trouble once we move out of the subcontinent. Can’t expect Bumrah to do it every f time especially with the chronic injuries he’s had.

They should select Tyagi for T20s against Aus post WC. 

[Suhaan]

25 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

They should select Tyagi for T20s against Aus post WC. 

Ideally he should be eased into odi,test xis first

T20s are brutal,he should be graduated to t20s after Odis atleast

[Lone Wolf]

27 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Ideally he should be eased into odi,test xis first

T20s are brutal,he should be graduated to t20s after Odis atleast

We must be playing ODIs in SA...  Tyagi should get picked for both.  Knowing Indian selectors he won't get picked either way but even if he in T20 squad it would be alright than not getting picked at all. 

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Mukesh is someone you may have as 3rd -4th pacer when your first choice is injured in tests overseas

He's surely disciplined to be played that way

But no way he should be playing ahead of Tyagi,Sen,Harshit,Mayank,Yudhvir,Prasidh

Ideally he should be coming much later in the pecking order

Bhai, even considering that.

We have Akashdeep, Kaverappa, ahead of him who are taller, experienced enough and are accurate. Akashdeep is a decent batter and Kaverappa is super accurate at well.

If you make the list of top 10 prospects (excluding Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Umesh, Ishant etc)..I doubt Mukesh will enter even in the Top 10 quicks. 

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, MK55 said:

I think Tyagi leap frogs every bowler out there. I don’t care, think of it as bias or whatever but he needs to be given priority over others.  It’s good in the long term for the team especially if we are looking to perform overseas. Also makes it entertaining for the viewers. 

We haven’t got a single genuine quick right now in the side. With the way Siraj has downgraded, it will be trouble once we move out of the subcontinent. Can’t expect Bumrah to do it every f time especially with the chronic injuries he’s had.

I think Tyagi has the potential to be out next Bumrah...one for every format. Ofcourse I am just going by the potential here and not actual performance but his skillsets are really top class.

 

Harshit, Prasidh, Sen are suitable for red ball & to an extent 50 over format. Their T20 skills need some fine tuning (Sen has lost some edge due to his fitness but he can break in back again once he regains his rhythm).

 

Likes of Umran, Yudhvir, Mayank Yadav, Hangargekar, Mohsin are better suited for T20's & 50 over format. Their FC stats are little undercooked so will need more times, though Umran & Mayank should ideally break through longer format as well.

Edited November 1, 2023 by singhvivek141

[MediumPacer]

4 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Harshal can also bowl 140+ when he really put his best foot forward. He has bowled upto 142-143 as well, will you consider him as "Fast bowler" ?

 

Mukesh's speed is 128-134 (just like Bhuvi)...he can hit 138-139 when he really tries to but he can't do it consistently.

 

India needs bowlers who can bowl 135+ on consistent basis, bowlers who can bowl 140+ consistently and are tall have distinct advantages. Mukesh falls in neither of the categories. Only has a utility when the ball is hard & new...post that just a baggage on the remaining bowlers.

 

Add to that he is atrociously poor fielder and even poorer with bat. Why would anyone want to waste time by selecting such limited skillset bowlers ? Deepak Chahar provides much more advantages than Mukesh can ever do so in his entire career.

Harshal too was avg pace when he bowled 130-140ks,and mukesh currently is clocking well into the 130s ,when he starts to bowls under 130 then you can call him slow.

if someone bowls 140-150k then thats good pace .Others who are somewhere in between ,around 135-145 ,they are quicker than average .

Fast is when they are bowling over 145k or 90mph .

I am not a big fan of Mukesh but he is not as bad as people here are projecting him to be .Yeah he isnt quick or tall and cant field nor bat ,but he can bowl in the corridor consistently and has performed in fc and Indians generally like this style of bowling and it can work specially with the new ball.
 

[MediumPacer]

4 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Bhaiya kaun duniya me rehte ho? This is not 1980 or 1990 that we keep promoting trundlers because we do not have options. Wake up and smell the coffee. These mostly ' 128-130ish' bowlers and at times '134-137' bowlers are innocuous. When you lack in pace, then you got to have the skills of Wasim Akram or Glen Mcgrath, day in day out to keep batsmen on their toes. If you think Mr Mukesh is a reincarnation of Wasim and Mcgrath, then I have no complaints. But he isn't that, then tbh, you wouldnt be able to trust him in pressure situation.

 

Quick bowlers induce fear. Wasim, Waqar, Brett, and the ilk aren't noobs to keep suggesting India gives chances to the quicker bowlers. 

 

Mukesh is bowling over 130ks,he is 130-140k  these days ,but isnt that tall ,if he were around 6ft 4 then the carry would look lot better specially abroad .Because he is around 5ft 11 the trajectory is skiddy.

how quick are guys like southee or anderson or likes of asif ,pollock and mcgrath ?

I am not claiming he is going to be  a great int pacer but he is not as slow these days as you guys are showing.He is an average speed pacer who bowls 130-140k.
 

[MediumPacer]

4 hours ago, prudent_kreeda said:

This should be the job of BCCI.

1.First find root causes of so many injuries to them even without playing matches & address those issues  

 2.Have specialist coaching set up at NCA for periodic training under a very good former pacer for young quickies .

They should get the basics right to get wickets in longer version - pace, line & length , setting up batsmen, Seam movement , release  etc. 

3. Do not mess selection of pacers for different formats - Identify your Test match contenders , who can also do well in 50 overs .

4.For T20 a separate set of pacers should be identified and they should have separate training more on T20 bowling skills .

I think not playing first class games - which improves line & length and wicket taking skills and trying to fit into T20 bowling - which messes up consistency by trying to do too many things within an over leads them with no mastery neither in longer format nor shorter format. 

NA ghar ka ghat ka situation !

Yeah pacers need lot more attention and also the right type of pitches.We need more pace and bounce and less dusty strips.

[MediumPacer]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Need quick skilful bowlers, especially if the pacers are from.Asia 

 

No 130 k to 140 k pacer has ever been a top notch pacer ( low average pacer across formats )  for any Asian team ( who play 60% of their games on slow surfaces )

 

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

When we have or had pacers like Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Prasidh, Ishant 2.0 who all can or could do the same at 5 kph to 7 kph higher speeds, more zip off the deck and much more bounce and hostility .. then why do we want to go back to 128 k to 138 k pacers like Mukesh and Unadkat  !!

 

We should look for the next Bumrah and Shami

i am talking about his pace ,not quality as an int pacer

[MediumPacer]

4 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Umran has outperformed Mukesh in T20's.

Tyagi outperforms Mukesh in List A.

Sen has better stats than Mukesh in List A.

 

Akashdeep, Kaverappa & Mayank Yadav has better stats than Mukesh in all 3 domestic formats.

 

How did Mukesh leapfrogged them ?

I guess this tm liked him,as Dravid once mentioned he doesnt like "sexy" bowlers 

[MediumPacer]

Sa dismantling NZ

[MediumPacer]

Coetzee is such a good bowler ,wkt to wkt with pace and bounce

[MediumPacer]

perfect ball to get young

[MediumPacer]

This sa pace attack is the the best quartet i have seen in a wc

[MediumPacer]

coetzee 144,jensen 146k

[MediumPacer]

quality bowling from rabada

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, MediumPacer said:

Harshal too was avg pace when he bowled 130-140ks,and mukesh currently is clocking well into the 130s ,when he starts to bowls under 130 then you can call him slow.

if someone bowls 140-150k then thats good pace .Others who are somewhere in between ,around 135-145 ,they are quicker than average .

Fast is when they are bowling over 145k or 90mph .

I am not a big fan of Mukesh but he is not as bad as people here are projecting him to be .Yeah he isnt quick or tall and cant field nor bat ,but he can bowl in the corridor consistently and has performed in fc and Indians generally like this style of bowling and it can work specially with the new ball.
 

 

For me if the average pace is 

<125k, Uber trundler

125-130k Medium pacer / Trundler

130-135k Medium Fast

135-140k Fast Medium

140-145k Fast

145k > Express

 

Mukesh oscillates mostly in Medium to Medium Fast range..with occasional deliveries in Fast Medium.

 

Very tough for him to justify himself with his limited skillset in other department unless he is as good as Richard Hadlee or Shaun Pollock with the ball (which he is neither).

 

Bowling in corridor is useful on helpful conditions and green mamba's..but his pace is actually quite low to trouble class batters. 

Even vs Windies he was not penetrative and was often used only in death overs because he was pedestrian with the ball.

Edited November 1, 2023 by singhvivek141

[MediumPacer]

brother maharaj also scything through

[MediumPacer]

14 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

For me if the average pace is 

<125k, Uber trundler

125-130k Medium pacer / Trundler

130-135k Medium Fast

135-140k Fast Medium

140-145k Fast

145k > Express

 

Mukesh oscillates mostly in Medium to Medium Fast range..with occasional deliveries in Fast Medium.

 

Very tough for him to justify himself with his limited skillset in other department unless he is as good as Richard Hadlee or Shaun Pollock with the ball (which he is neither).

 

Bowling in corridor is useful on helpful conditions and green mamba's..but his pace is actually quite low to trouble class batters. 

Even vs Windies he was not penetrative and was often used only in death overs because he was pedestrian with the ball.

that range is quite short ,for me 90+ is fast and 95+ express,80+ medium fast and 85+ fast medium ,

 

 

Under 80 is medium pace something that used to be more common place in the past,now most guys are brisk but people still call them medium paced.even likes of hardik ,shardul and agarkar have been called medium paced by commentators

 

but generally what i have seen is lots of guys bowl 130-140 k ,so i consider that average pace ,anything less than that is below average and anything over that is above average(for professional or int cricket).

Edited November 1, 2023 by MediumPacer

[MediumPacer]

21 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Bowling in corridor is useful on helpful conditions and green mamba's..but his pace is actually quite low to trouble class batters. 

 

low pace is good in helpful conditions ,think of philander.

 

Kulasekara was once no 1 bowler in odis .