Wtf ISRAEL??

[Number]

https://twitter.com/AdamMilstein/status/494841903297220608 Recent pic ??

[Sooda]

Why does Hamas need to build tunnels into Israel?

I dont know, no one is suggestion theyre a peace loving organisation. Maybe because theyre fed up of the occupation that Gaza has been under for the last few years and despite making efforts for peace they have seen little in reply from the Israelis.. so want to do something about it

[Muloghonto]

Why does Hamas need to build tunnels into Israel?

Because: 1. They should get back at the feckers who are illegally blockading them and comitting war crimes and extrajudicial crimes against the Palestinian people. If tomorrow a foreign country decieded to blockade my land and randomly arrest people with impunity (where their police has no legal authority!), i too would dig tunnels to get back at them. 2. To smuggle goods into and out of gaza, as there is an illegally imposed blockade that is perpetrating the gazan catastrophe. I think the point the Zionist apologists are missing is that while Israel is fully justified in maintaining its sovereign stance today and hamas is clearly wrong in not recognizing Israeli sovereignty, it is abundantly clear that the state of Israel and its armed forces (including law enforcement) have committed far more attrocities and war crimes against the Palestinian people than Hamas has caused against the Israeli people. That is not even a contest. That Hamas is ideologically wrong today does not change the fact that Israel is far, far bigger a monster than hamas is.

[Sooda]

^Lol, yeah thats a much better way of putting what I was trying to. Though maybe Pt 2 is probably more relevant for the tunnels in and out of Egypt, didnt think there would be much smuggling from Israel

[veer]

I am leaning towards palestinians now. Israelis are not letting up. Killing is going out of hand. Some of the vidows and pics i saw were just horrible. This will lead upto more terrorists propping up around the world.

[Muloghonto]

^Lol' date=' yeah thats a much better way of putting what I was trying to. Though maybe Pt 2 is probably more relevant for the tunnels in and out of Egypt, didnt think there would be much smuggling from Israel[/quote'] Actually if u think abt it, smuggling tunnel into israel makes more sense than,into egypt. The tunnels to sinai lead to nowhere- literally just a hole in the middle of the desert. Easily followed,observed and shut down at egypts whim. Like now. But tunnels to israel go to densely populated areas and are much harder to track. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[Desi Cartman]

Because: 1. They should get back at the feckers who are illegally blockading them and comitting war crimes and extrajudicial crimes against the Palestinian people. If tomorrow a foreign country decieded to blockade my land and randomly arrest people with impunity (where their police has no legal authority!), i too would dig tunnels to get back at them. 2. To smuggle goods into and out of gaza, as there is an illegally imposed blockade that is perpetrating the gazan catastrophe. I think the point the Zionist apologists are missing is that while Israel is fully justified in maintaining its sovereign stance today and hamas is clearly wrong in not recognizing Israeli sovereignty, it is abundantly clear that the state of Israel and its armed forces (including law enforcement) have committed far more attrocities and war crimes against the Palestinian people than Hamas has caused against the Israeli people. That is not even a contest. That Hamas is ideologically wrong today does not change the fact that Israel is far, far bigger a monster than hamas is.

Point 2 is flawed, for the rest of the post, those feckers are kicking ass so it's in interest of hamas, Palestinians and their friends to accept that they have been fecked and stand no chance of defeating Israel and had they surrendered earlier, they could have saved a lot of innocent lives.

[Aaku]

All these stupid posts on facebook (jew owner) to stop using israeli made goods :facepalm: stay away from the internet (fb, google, youtube) then you ll make all jews poor and they ll stop bombing gaza eh

[Aaku]

another one

[coffee_rules]

Because: 1. They should get back at the feckers who are illegally blockading them and comitting war crimes and extrajudicial crimes against the Palestinian people. If tomorrow a foreign country decieded to blockade my land and randomly arrest people with impunity (where their police has no legal authority!), i too would dig tunnels to get back at them.

It cuts both ways. If the government that the people elected and support doesn't recognize the foreign country and devotes time to cause harm, the foreign country is not like India to be passive. It has existed for 67 years by being proactive in defense (preemptive). If you want peace, STFU and work on improving your own economy/standard of living. Instead, you play the victim always and blame everything on the foreign country.

2. To smuggle goods into and out of gaza, as there is an illegally imposed blockade that is perpetrating the gazan catastrophe.

The blockade is because there is hard evidence it is not smuggling goods but weapons and bombs that can cause (is causing now) harm to Israelis. The rockets on civilians can't be supported. Israelis should be more careful to cause less civilian casualties, but you can't blame them if Hamas is firing rockets hiding behind women and children.

I think the point the Zionist apologists are missing is that while Israel is fully justified in maintaining its sovereign stance today and hamas is clearly wrong in not recognizing Israeli sovereignty, it is abundantly clear that the state of Israel and its armed forces (including law enforcement) have committed far more attrocities and war crimes against the Palestinian people than Hamas has caused against the Israeli people. That is not even a contest. That Hamas is ideologically wrong today does not change the fact that Israel is far, far bigger a monster than hamas is.

Agreed it not a just war, but I blame the people and Hamas which gets support from the people. If you can't realize the enemy is larger, bigger, it is futile to pose false bravado and die in the end. Are people dying in the West Bank? Looks like they have made peace with the devil. It is best Gaza toes the same line as the West Bank.

[Muloghonto]

It cuts both ways. If the government that the people elected and support doesn't recognize the foreign country and devotes time to cause harm, the foreign country is not like India to be passive. It has existed for 67 years by being proactive in defense (preemptive). If you want peace, STFU and work on improving your own economy/standard of living. Instead, you play the victim always and blame everything on the foreign country.

No one is arguing that the Palestinian response now or over the last 60 years to Israel has been logical or well thought out. But that does not give Israel the right to comit war crimes and crimes against humanity.

The blockade is because there is hard evidence it is not smuggling goods but weapons and bombs that can cause (is causing now) harm to Israelis. The rockets on civilians can't be supported. Israelis should be more careful to cause less civilian casualties, but you can't blame them if Hamas is firing rockets hiding behind women and children.

No, the blockade is there because the israelis want to genocide the heck out the Palestinians. The blockade has been maintained despite a sharp reduction in weapons and armaments smuggled into gaza. That is punitive for being the wrong race.

Agreed it not a just war, but I blame the people and Hamas which gets support from the people. If you can't realize the enemy is larger, bigger, it is futile to pose false bravado and die in the end. Are people dying in the West Bank? Looks like they have made peace with the devil. It is best Gaza toes the same line as the West Bank.

Thats like saying since the Anglo powers and a few Jewish bankers screwed Germany after WWI, it justified Hitler's genocide of the jews.

[Desi Cartman]

No one is arguing that the Palestinian response now or over the last 60 years to Israel has been logical or well thought out. But that does not give Israel the right to comit war crimes and crimes against humanity. No, the blockade is there because the israelis want to genocide the heck out the Palestinians. The blockade has been maintained despite a sharp reduction in weapons and armaments smuggled into gaza. That is punitive for being the wrong race. Thats like saying since the Anglo powers and a few Jewish bankers screwed Germany after WWI, it justified Hitler's genocide of the jews.

Sharp reduction in smuggling of weapons ? Are u watching news? They have been firing non stop for weeks, where do you think they got these weapons from ?

[Texy]

All these stupid posts on facebook (jew owner) to stop using israeli made goods :facepalm: stay away from the internet (fb, google, youtube) then you ll make all jews poor and they ll stop bombing gaza eh

Pakis have been using FB & Google+ (both Jewish owned) to post these stupid boycott campaigns :cantstop: On topic: 72 ceasefire have failed within hours. Israeli soldier captured. Hamas claims suicide bomber took out several IDF soldiers.

[Sooda]

Desi Cartman, did you read BeautifulGames post number 215? If not kindly do so http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=3048656&postcount=215 And please let us know what your views on it are...

[Desi Cartman]

1) The Gaza Strip isn't occupied by Israel Boston Globe: "Israeli-imposed buffer zones.. now absorb nearly 14 percent of Gaza's total land and at least 48 percent of total arable land. Similarly, the sea buffer zone covers 85 percent of the maritime area promised to Palestinians in the Oslo Accords, reducing 20 nautical miles to three."*Human Rights Watch: "Israel also continues to control the population registry for residents of the Gaza Strip, years after it withdrew its ground forces and settlements there."B'Tselem, 2013: "Israel continues to maintain exclusive control of Gaza's airspace and the territorial waters, just as it has since it occupied the Gaza Strip in 1967."

Yes, but if Hamas thinks it can alter it via war with Israel then they are smoking something or are idiots

2) Israel wants a ceasefire but Hamas doesn't Al Jazeera: "Meshaal said Hamas wants the 'aggression to stop tomorrow, today, or even this minute. But [israel must] lift the blockade with guarantees and not as a promise for future negotiations'. He added 'we will not shut the door in the face of any humanitarian ceasefire backed by a real aid programme'."Jerusalem Post: "One day after an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire accepted by Israel, but rejected by Hamas, fell through, the terrorist organizationproposed a 10-year end to hostilities*in return for its conditions being met by Israel, Channel 2 reported Wednesday.. Hamas's conditions were the release of re-arrested Palestinian prisoners who were let go in the Schalit deal, the opening of Gaza-Israel border crossings in order to allow citizens and goods to pass through, and international supervision of the Gazan seaport in place of the current Israeli blockade."*BBC: "Israel's security cabinet has rejected a week-long Gaza ceasefire proposal put forward by US Secretary of State John Kerry 'as it stands'."

Read today's paper, they were also the first one to fire rockets when the last ceasefire expired.

3) Israel, unlike Hamas, doesn't deliberately target civilians The*Guardian: "It was there that the second [israeli] shell hit the beach, those firing apparently adjusting their fire to target the fleeing survivors. As it exploded, journalists standing by the terrace wall shouted: 'They are only children.'"*UN high commissioner for human rights Navi Pillay: "A number of incidents, along with the high number of civilian deaths, belies the [israeli] claim that all necessary precautions are being taken to protect civilian lives."*United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, 2009: "The tactics used by the Israeli armed forces in the Gaza offensive are consistent with previous practices, most recently during the Lebanon war in 2006. A concept known as the Dahiya doctrine emerged then, involving the application of disproportionate force and the causing of great damage and destruction to civilian property and infrastructure, and suffering to civilian populations. The Mission concludes from a review of the facts on the ground that it.. appears to have been precisely what was put into practice."

If Its war then its war, Hamas/ISIS/JKLK/TALIBAN dont play with rules and I find it funny one only side is supposed to be angels while others can shoot millions of rockets and explode bombs in buses

4) Only Hamas is guilty of war crimes, not Israel Human Rights Watch: "Israeli forces may also have knowingly or recklessly attacked people who were clearly civilians, such as young boys, and civilian structures, including a hospital - laws-of-war violations that are indicative of war crimes."*Amnesty International: "Deliberately attacking a civilian home is a war crime, and the overwhelming scale of destruction of civilian homes, in some cases with entire families inside them, points to a distressing pattern of repeated violations of the laws of war."

Its war, hamas should be the last one to complain.

5) Hamas use the civilians of Gaza as 'human shields' Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields."*The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay."*The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields."*Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."

It may be a false propaganda but Hamas is risking lives of millions of innocent people by waging a war that they cant win, at least in the near future

6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014 Times of Israel: "Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas hadprobably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier*which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn't fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012."The Nation: "During ten days of Operation Brother's Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011."

Well the tunnels arent really a proof of what peaceful activities hamas wants to do in near future. Its more of he said - she said but at the end of the day Hamas keeps firing and is the one who smuggled all the weapons and is the one who dug all the tunnels.

7) Hamas has never stopped firing rockets into Israel Jewish Daily Forward: "Hamas hadn't fired a single rocket since [2012 Gaza conflict], and had largely suppressed fire by smaller jihadi groups. Rocket firings, averaging 240 per month in 2007, dropped to five per month in 2013."International Crisis Group: "Fewer rockets were fired from Gaza in 2013 than in any year since 2001, and nearly all those that were fired between the November 2012 ceasefire and the current crisis were launched by groups other than Hamas; the Israeli security establishment testified to the aggressive anti-rocket efforts made by the new police force Hamas established specifically for that purpose.. As Israel (and Egypt) rolled back the 2012 understandings - some of which were implemented spottily at best - so too did Hamas roll back its anti rocket efforts."

How is this relevant to what I am saying ?

8) Hamas provoked Israel by kidnapping and killing three Israeli teenagers Jewish Daily Forward: "The [israeli] government had known almost from the beginning that the boys were dead. It maintained the fiction that it hoped to find them alive as a pretext to dismantle Hamas' West Bank operations.. Nor was that the only fib. It was clear from the beginning that the kidnappers weren't acting on orders from Hamas leadership in Gaza or Damascus. Hamas' Hebron branch -- more a crime family than a clandestine organization -- had a history of acting without the leaders' knowledge, sometimes against their interests."*BBC correspondent Jon Donnison: "Israeli police MickeyRosenfeld tells me men who killed 3 Israeli teens def lone cell, hamas affiliated but not operating under leadership.. Seems to contradict the line from Netanyahu government."

ok even if I believe it, do u think Hamas was going to hang the killers?

9) Hamas rule, not Israel's blockade, is to blame for the humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip US State Department cable: "Israeli officials have confirmed to Embassy officials on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy functioning at the lowest level possible consistent with avoiding a humanitarian crisis.. Israeli officials have confirmed.. on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse without quite pushing it over the edge."*The Guardian: "The Israeli military made precise calculations of Gaza's daily calorie needs to avoid malnutrition during a blockade imposed on the Palestinian territory between 2007 and mid-2010, according to files the defence ministry released on Wednesday under a court order.. The Israeli advocacy group Gisha.. waged a long court battle to release the document. Its members say Israel calculated the calorie needs for Gaza's population so as to restrict the quantity of food it allowed in."

They have countless missiles and built pretty modern tunnels, didnt they ?

10) The Israeli government, unlike Hamas, wants a two-state solution Times of Israel: "[Netanyahu] made explicitly clear that he could never, ever, countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank.. Amid the current conflict, he elaborated, 'I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan.'"

Hamas shooting rockets does not help

11) All serious analysts agree it was Hamas, and not Israel, that started this current conflict Nathan Thrall, senior Mid East analyst at the International Crisis Group, writing in the New York Times: "The current escalation in Gaza is a direct result of the choice by Israel and the West to obstruct the implementation of the April 2014 Palestinian reconciliation agreement."Henry Siegman, former national director, American Jewish Congress, writing for Politico: "Israel's assault on Gaza.. was not triggered by Hamas' rockets directed at Israel but by Israel's determination to bring down the Palestinian unity government that was formed in early June, even though that government was committed to honoring all of the conditions imposed by the international community for recognition of its legitimacy." by Taboola http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5624401

Im getting tired, my main points are: * Hamas will lose and the longer they fight, the more people will die * Hasmas had opportunity to stop they didnt * They built tunnels and smuggled weapons * They MAY not have started this but had opportunities to end it Bottom line is that Hamas cant alter a single thing by fighting, they need to realize that Israel can crush them and they cant do anything. Thats my point. I am not saying Israel is justified in its overall treatment or is fair at all. My point is that Hamas needs to understand that they are fighting the war with zero chance of success. They are only hurting their own people.

[Alph]

Desi Cartman, point 11 in that article is the most important - that Israel does not want Palestinian diplomacy to succeed, apparently because they don't want a sovereign Palestinian state to exist.

[Alph]

Sharp reduction in smuggling of weapons ? Are u watching news? They have been firing non stop for weeks' date=' where do you think they got these weapons from ?[/quote'] Home made perhaps... http://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/prr/qassams.php. Ironically, it's not rocket science.

[Alph]

It cuts both ways. If the government that the people elected and support doesn't recognize the foreign country and devotes time to cause harm' date=' the foreign country is not like India to be passive. It has existed for 67 years by being proactive in defense (preemptive). [b']If you want peace, STFU and work on improving your own economy/standard of living . Instead, you play the victim always and blame everything on the foreign country.

Economy/standard of living - exactly what the Israeli's are impeding. http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_gaza_blockade_factsheet_june_2012_english.pdf By the way, International conventions do not require the Palestinians to recognize the state of Israel and that as a precondition to a Palestinian State. Anyway, which Israel are they supposed to recognize? The one the UNGA proposed in 1947? Pre 67? Post 67? The present ?

The blockade is because there is hard evidence it is not smuggling goods but weapons and bombs that can cause (is causing now) harm to Israelis. The rockets on civilians can't be supported. Israelis should be more careful to cause less civilian casualties' date= but you can't blame them if Hamas is firing rockets hiding behind women and children.http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/09/21/gaza_economy_drowns_in_flooded_smuggling_tunnels.bb.html And I think the human shield allegations have been sufficiently debunked. Yes, people are dying in the West Bank and they face the hardships if not to the extent of the Gazans. And they have not made peace with the devil. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28476882 Gaza would be full of Israeli settlements if they toed the West Bank's line.

Not discounting the weapons smuggled, even KFC deliveries were made through these tunnels.

[Alph]

^ No word on Tunnels? The main reason for the ground offense.

First it was the kidnapped kids, then the rockets, and now the tunnels. Then why did the IDF let Hamas dig these tunnels all these years? http://warincontext.org/2014/07/29/why-did-the-idf-let-hamas-dig-so-many-tunnels-into-israel/ Besides, why can't the Israelis follow the Egyptian way of dealing with these tunnels instead of all this carnage. http://www.thewire.com/global/2013/02/egypts-fighting-palestinian-smugglers-sewage/62365/

[Alph]

Debunking Israel's 11 Main Myths About Gaza, Hamas and War Crimes Mehdi Hasan*28/07/14 11:53 ...Let's be clear: I'm no fan of Hamas, a brutal and*anti-Semitic*group....

Palestinians/Arabs are semites too.