rkt.india Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Dhoni doesn't trust bunny with the ball at all. He doesn't use him until he has to. Creating one chance doesn't make you a good bowler. y. Why has he played then?
asterix Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Why is he played then? I think there's a tussle going on between Dhobi and Roger Binny.... Roger has forced Dhoni to select Stuart in the playing XI and Dhoni is under using Stuart to return the favour.. Indian cricket be damned..
Precambrian Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Yes, you will be confused. You see, unlike you, the pundits and most people are not thinking in terms of one session or one day or one test. They know Bhuvi is a long term option for India who should be protected and groomed But yes, Dhoni is desperate to win the match and so are some fans. To the extent that are ready to sacrifice a young bowler's career And the next time he loses his way and zing after a couple of such series, they and captain cool can go back to blame the lack of bowling resources Not able to manage bowling resources is why some of our brightest talents shine only in one or two series before they fade away. But looks like we still won't learn our lesson 1. How is bowling 23 overs in a day killing a bowler's career? As I said in my post, Broad and Anderson did it on day 1. I don't understand the point. 2. What should've he done alternatively? Cottonwool an in song Bhuvi and bowl out the others and scupper any chances of an Indian win? 3. Which bowler has he "overused" in the past and ground to death? That the particular bowler's career was shortened? Please give proof. 4. "Not able to manage bowling resources is why some of our brightest talents shine only in one or two series before they fade away" - Can you substantiate this statement? I am putting up a link to Kapil Dev's interview here --> http://zeenews.india.com/sports/cricket/india-vs-england-2014/kapil-dev-pins-hopes-on-india-pacers-wants-batsmen-to-deliver_790603.html Let us see what he talks about how much he expects an allrounder to bowl in a day: Kapil, rued the absence of a genuine pace bowling all-rounder in the team and did not think that Stuart Binny fits the bill at the moment. "Had there been one good all-rounder it would have been a different story altogether -- If he can bowl 20 overs in a day and bat at no. 7 or 6. Stuart Binny has to come a long way to get into the team. He does not give the impression he can bowl 20 overs in a day. If he can manage that then he would look totally different," the legendary cricketer said. "He`s a brilliant fielder but I have a doubt whether he can bowl 20 overs. Let`s be critical when we are required to be critical. All of them are four over bowlers basically. I have not seen them bowling 20-30 overs, that`s where I have a doubt, a reservation in my mind. But let us give the benefit of the doubt to these boys." In effect, he expects even the allrounder to deliver 20 overs a day, so 23 overs in a day as delivered by Bhuvi is nothing huge. Also check this: http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/537876.html Andy Roberts - How many great fast bowlers did you have in the history of cricket up to 1990? How many of those fast bowlers had back injuries? These modern-day fast bowlers do not bowl half the overs I bowled. In my first season in county cricket I bowled 800 overs between April and August. Then I went to India and bowled 200 more overs. Clive Rice - It is not about the workload. Just before I started playing, guys in England bowled 1600 overs in a county season. Guys today have it easy. The more you bowl, the better you become. Even when we were playing, there was a theory that we were playing too much. Playing in England, if you were not available to play all the time, with all the rain, you would not have played. If you had a sunny period then you bowled a lot of overs. You were tired, but you could only be pleasantly weary and you got on with it. And you learned. When you were bowling at Viv Richards or at Sunil Gavaskar, you told yourself not to bowl in the wrong spots, because otherwise you would disappear. Now let me bring some match related examples: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63566.html India in Australia - 4th test 91/92 Kapil Dev bowled 23 overs out of total 66! in Australia's first innings. In reply McDermott bowled 31 overs out of total 84 bowled by Australia in India's first innings. Whitney bowled 26 overs as well! And in Australia's second innings, Kapil bowled an unbelievable 51 overs out of total 186 overs faced by Australia - so in the match totally he bowled 74 overs as the premium fast bowler - at the age of 34. In that whole series, Kapil bowled 284 overs out of a total of 1013 overs bowled by India - i.e about 28% of the overs. Remember that was across 10 innings in 5 test matches, in difficult conditions, and that is still higher than what Bhuvi did just yesterday, So all this talk of having overbowled Bhuvi is just plain rubbish.
Precambrian Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 The peerless Glenn McGrath, in this match http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63839.html : then aged 28, bowled 1st innings - 33 overs out of 103 overs (32%) 2nd innings - 44 overs out of 120 overs (37%!!!) That's a total of 77 overs of fastbowling in a single test match!! And he bowled a total of 200 overs in just 4 test matches in that tour, out of 611 bowled by Australia (i.e 33%!) Certainly McGrath wasn't grounded to dust, nor Waugh was accused of "killing" him surely??? Why the double standards when it comes to Dhoni?
CSK Fan Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 1. How is bowling 23 overs in a day killing a bowler's career? As I said in my post, Broad and Anderson did it on day 1. I don't understand the point. 2. What should've he done alternatively? Cottonwool an in song Bhuvi and bowl out the others and scupper any chances of an Indian win? 3. Which bowler has he "overused" in the past and ground to death? That the particular bowler's career was shortened? Please give proof. 4. "Not able to manage bowling resources is why some of our brightest talents shine only in one or two series before they fade away" - Can you substantiate this statement? I am putting up a link to Kapil Dev's interview here --> http://zeenews.india.com/sports/cricket/india-vs-england-2014/kapil-dev-pins-hopes-on-india-pacers-wants-batsmen-to-deliver_790603.html Let us see what he talks about how much he expects an allrounder to bowl in a day: In effect, he expects even the allrounder to deliver 20 overs a day, so 23 overs in a day as delivered by Bhuvi is nothing huge. Also check this: http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/537876.html Now let me bring some match related examples: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63566.html India in Australia - 4th test 91/92 Kapil Dev bowled 23 overs out of total 66! in Australia's first innings. In reply McDermott bowled 31 overs out of total 84 bowled by Australia in India's first innings. Whitney bowled 26 overs as well! And in Australia's second innings, Kapil bowled an unbelievable 51 overs out of total 186 overs faced by Australia - so in the match totally he bowled 74 overs as the premium fast bowler - at the age of 34. In that whole series, Kapil bowled 284 overs out of a total of 1013 overs bowled by India - i.e about 28% of the overs. Remember that was across 10 innings in 5 test matches, in difficult conditions, and that is still higher than what Bhuvi did just yesterday, So all this talk of having overbowled Bhuvi is just plain rubbish. 1) Whenever a bowler bowls more than 20 overs, he is never ever allowed to bowl more than 5-6 overs at a trot. Thats' what happened to Broad and Anderson. Not bowl 10 over spells in one go. This is the huge difference everyone including cricket experts are pointing out, NOT the total number of overs bowled. In fact, we could have done with a few more Bhuvi overs when that partnership was forming 2) With Kapil dev, are you intentionally acting naive here? The time when a team would play 5 matches in six months compared to Bhuvi, who played evey match in IPL, every match in every ODI series and then this test series. How is that even comparable to Kapil's work load? If we had a good 3 months lay off after this series, fine, but thats not how much cricket is played nowadays. Kapil in total would not bowl even a fraction of overs Bhuvi would bowl in 3 months in all forms of crricket
CSK Fan Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 The peerless Glenn McGrath' date=' in this match [url']http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63839.html : then aged 28, bowled 1st innings - 33 overs out of 103 overs (32%) 2nd innings - 44 overs out of 120 overs (37%!!!) That's a total of 77 overs of fastbowling in a single test match!! And he bowled a total of 200 overs in just 4 test matches in that tour, out of 611 bowled by Australia (i.e 33%!) Certainly McGrath wasn't grounded to dust, nor Waugh was accused of "killing" him surely??? Why the double standards when it comes to Dhoni? Becuase McGrath DID NOT bowl 10-11 overs on the trot THIS is what people are pointing out NOT the TOTAL number of overs
BlueBee Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Becuase McGrath DID NOT bowl 10-11 overs on the trot THIS is what people are pointing out NOT the TOTAL number of overs Exactly! No captain uses/used his best bowlers for a 10 over spell.
Yoda-esque Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 I think there's a tussle going on between Dhobi and Roger Binny.... Roger has forced Dhoni to select Stuart in the playing XI and Dhoni is under using Stuart to return the favour.. Indian cricket be damned.. Love your theories
asterix Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Love your theories :beee: Here's a fresh one...Dhobi is trying to overuse Bhuvi so that he breaks down mid-series to put the Ad Hoc captain in trouble while Dhobi flies off for his Paternity leave... :beee:
Yoda-esque Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 :beee: Here's a fresh one...Dhobi is trying to overuse Bhuvi so that he breaks down mid-series to put the Ad Hoc captain in trouble while Dhobi flies off for his Paternity leave... :beee: You hate Dhoni-Agreed Now keep that aside and read what just wrote again
asterix Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 You hate Dhoni-Agreed Now keep that aside and read what just wrote again A wicket keeper captain is the most dangerous captain if he's not backing up his bowler... You can't do much... He can intentionally ignore to even attempt to take any catches if he wishes to deny a wicket to the targeted bowler... With Dhoni at helm, anything is possible. Years of backing by Srini has made him a ruthless mafia captain...
CSK Fan Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 You hate Dhoni-Agreed Now keep that aside and read what just wrote again You luvvvvvvvvv Dhoni - agreed. Now why don't you read the points everyone raised instead of asinine one-liners in every thread about Dhoni?
Precambrian Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 1) Whenever a bowler bowls more than 20 overs, he is never ever allowed to bowl more than 5-6 overs at a trot. Thats' what happened to Broad and Anderson. Not bowl 10 over spells in one go. This is the huge difference everyone including cricket experts are pointing out, NOT the total number of overs bowled. In fact, we could have done with a few more Bhuvi overs when that partnership was forming 2) With Kapil dev, are you intentionally acting naive here? The time when a team would play 5 matches in six months compared to Bhuvi, who played evey match in IPL, every match in every ODI series and then this test series. How is that even comparable to Kapil's work load? If we had a good 3 months lay off after this series, fine, but thats not how much cricket is played nowadays. Kapil in total would not bowl even a fraction of overs Bhuvi would bowl in 3 months in all forms of crricket 1. Is there proof for that? As I showed in my examples, we are talking about people who bowled 33% of their teams total overs in a match. And all available reports point out to the fact that Kapil used to bowl very long spells in matches, throughout his career. So did Courntey Walsh. These are workhorse players. 2. Come on, and stop the exaggeration. The series I mentioned in case of Kapil was when India toured Australia in 1991/92 - India played 5 test matches and 5 ODIs in a span of 2 months. And it did not end there and they went on to play the World Cup as well in succession. If there is anybody who is naive, it is you, forgetting the umpteen number of tour matches earlier teams used to play, and you have conveniently given a blind eye to Clive Rice's and Andy Robert's arguments where they talk about how they used to bowl thousands of overs in just a season. Please don't tell me about workloads in IPL matches. If bowling 4 overs in an evening and repeating that across 2 months is considered as "hectic" then let's stop the argument here. Dale Steyn referred to it as "paid vacation" remember.
Yoda-esque Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 A wicket keeper captain is the most dangerous captain if he's not backing up his bowler... You can't do much... He can intentionally ignore to even attempt to take any catches if he wishes to deny a wicket to the targeted bowler... With Dhoni at helm, anything is possible. Years of backing by Srini has made him a ruthless mafia captain... Dada ..ki bolchi tumi
Precambrian Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Becuase McGrath DID NOT bowl 10-11 overs on the trot THIS is what people are pointing out NOT the TOTAL number of overs A blatant lie, reeking of blind generalization and lack of cricketing knowledge. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/213856.html?innings=2;page=1;view=commentary McGrath bowled not 10 or 11 but 13 overs - yes, thirteen overs on the trot - in the 2005 Ashes match at Lord's, England's first innings, on day 1 between tea and stumps. All this at the ripe age of 35!
Precambrian Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/213856.html?innings=4;page=1;view=commentary Another test, where McGrath bowled 11 overs on the trot, between lunch and tea. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/226120.html?innings=1;view=commentary Yet another, McGrath bowling 11 on the trot again in Windies first innings,
Precambrian Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64113.html?innings=4;page=1;view=commentary Legendary spell from McGrath - on 4th day morning sent down 13 consecutive overs that read: 13-7-18-7
asterix Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Dada ..ki bolchi tumi Khara ch sangtoy... :icflove:
asterix Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 http://www.firstpost.com/sports/england-vs-india-dhoni-needs-careful-overworking-bhuvneshwar-kumar-1625459.html
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