rkt.india Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 dude in ipl he did not swing the ball much but got wickets with extra pace and bounce with batsmen gong after him and i even proved that in ipl section and in warmups how many wickets did he get ? i thought pankaj was best bowler Pankaj bowled with new ball and got 2 in 2 matches. If you take warmups seriously, Ishant should not even have played. Because even Shami has not done much, so it is not like it will make much of a difference. If Shami had done well enough and was fit enough to bowl with intensity like he did in SA and NZ, no one would have asked him to be replaced or talk about adding a 4th seamer. This has been a long lasting problem. All 3 seamers do not bowl well as a unit.
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 He does not need to move the ball like BK to be effective. If BK bowls his pace' date=' even he wont be able to move the ball much and then he got conditions where he could move the ball. Why did not BK move the ball in 2nd innings in Lords. Swing is always condition dependent. If there is huge swing, BK alone is enough, but you need someone who can do other things too and then Shami is not moving the ball much too.[/quote'] oh please he needs to still control his movement ..i have always backed umesh yadav because of that but this guy is not same and maybe you people will realize it after seeing him play but even in odis shami was out bowling him easily in new zealand lets hope team management has good sense to not drop shami based on tv show joke about his lazyness because to me he seems to be getting better and still being able to bowl plenty of overs and hit his top speeds in last inning of match
maniac Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 dude in ipl he did not swing the ball much but got wickets with extra pace and bounce with batsmen gong after him and i even proved that in ipl section and in warmups how many wickets did he get ? i thought pankaj was best bowler No one can move the ball like b.k or p.k if they bowl in 140s...one of the best swing bowlers of all time wasim akram was bowling in 130s when he actually became a good swing bowler and so did waqar towards the end of his career. Where Aaron will be effective is if he gets reverse going or gets a seam movement of the pitch like most 140 k bowlers do. Hilfenhaus was a genuine swing bowler but in the ind aus series 2011 wasn't moving the ball as much as he usually does bcoz his pace was up. If Aaron can get reverse,bowl some hostile short stuff and maybe move it a little when he gets purchase,he will be more Han handy
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Pankaj bowled with new ball and got 2 in 2 matches. If you take warmups seriously' date=' Ishant should not even have played. Because even Shami has not done much, so it is like it will make much of a difference. If Shami had done well enough and was fit enough to bowl with intensity like he did in SA and NZ, no one would have asked him to be replaced or talk about adding a 4th seamer. This has been a long lasting problem. All 3 seamers do not bowl well as a unit.[/quote'] problem with this is shami is bowling with more intensity with every inning and you did not even matched him bowl in 2nd inning as you said in thread
rkt.india Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 i think we have problem is always thinking next guy will be better ...i do not see people asking kohli to be dropped but you want shami dropped ..i am not even sure about fitness as he looked ok to me in 2nd test but i took your word for it he bowled plenty of overs and bowled well did not get rewards but even ishant did not pick a wicket in first inning there was drop of shami and he got 2 after that so 3 wickets should have been in first inning and he got 1 in 2nd being under bowled and bowling when conditions did not suit him and with older ball you can all it ineffective but to be getting 4 wickets in match is pretty good effort when ts not ur day If Shami had done well enough and was fit enough to bowl with intensity like he did in SA and NZ, no one would have asked him to be replaced or talk about adding a 4th seamer. This has been a long lasting problem. All 3 seamers do not bowl well as a unit at once. There is no harm in trying if someone has been ineffective for the most part. Shami is out of shape. I fear he might get hamstring or side strain if he puts lot of effort like he was doing in 2nd of the 2nd test because of him being out of shape.
rkt.india Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 problem with this is shami is bowling with more intensity with every inning and you did not even matched him bowl in 2nd inning as you said in thread yeah, I watched him bowl. I did not watch Ishant's spell live. He had finished by then. He bowled 11 overs in total in 3 over spells, but with him being not in the best shape, there is a chance he can get side strain or hamstring strain if he puts too much effort.
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 No one can move the ball like b.k or p.k if they bowl in 140s...one of the best swing bowlers of all time wasim akram was bowling in 130s when he actually became a good swing bowler and so did waqar towards the end of his career. Where Aaron will be effective is if he gets reverse going or gets a seam movement of the pitch like most 140 k bowlers do. Hilfenhaus was a genuine swing bowler but in the ind aus series 2011 wasn't moving the ball as much as he usually does bcoz his pace was up. If Aaron can get reverse,bowl some hostile short stuff and maybe move it a little when he gets purchase,he will be more Han handy i never said he has to move ball like them also compare umesh to likes of akram they are lot similar and i will play umesh anyday but aaron is different kind of bowler and if you guys honestly believe he is ready for test cricket as new ball bowler then i cannot convince anyone here hope he plays an hope he proves me wrong but form what i have seen you guys are really over estimating his abilities and i think its our habit to just give up on player too quickly and hope for miracles rkt himself said aaron was not ready for tests during warm ups but all of sudden he is ready ..i do not get this tbh but this is it for this topic match is on 27 an i am sure we will get clues about playing 11 n few day's time so no point discussing now
rkt.india Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 oh please he needs to still control his movement ..i have always backed umesh yadav because of that but this guy is not same and maybe you people will realize it after seeing him play but even in odis shami was out bowling him easily in new zealand lets hope team management has good sense to not drop shami based on tv show joke about his lazyness because to me he seems to be getting better and still being able to bowl plenty of overs and hit his top speeds in last inning of match So, he was coming out after 2 years of gap, still picked 4 wickets in 3 matches. Shami had 11 in 5 matches but also had higher ER. Shami was bowling really well in that period since Aus series, still went for a lot of runs. Aaron has better control, IMO than both Shami and Yadav. If Yadav was here, he would have played, but since he is not and Shami has not lacked intensity, no issue in giving Aaron a chance.
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 If Shami had done well enough and was fit enough to bowl with intensity like he did in SA and NZ' date=' no one would have asked him to be replaced or talk about adding a 4th seamer. This has been a long lasting problem. All 3 seamers do not bowl well as a unit at once. There is no harm in trying if someone has been ineffective for the most part. Shami is out of shape. I fear he might get hamstring or side strain if he puts lot of effort like he was doing in 2nd of the 2nd test because of him being out of shape.[/quote'] i take your word on injury part but performance i disagree when i see young bowler who was bowling 130 k in first match suddenly cranking it up to high 130's nd 140s and looking much better rhythm will give him more chances simply because he earned it anyway lets tlak about selection when match is near no point wasting time now
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 So' date=' he was coming out after 2 years of gap, still picked 6 wickets in 4 matches. Shami had 11 in 5 matches but also had higher ER. Shami was bowling really well in that period since Aus series, still went for a lot of runs. Aaron has better control, IMO than both Shami and Yadav. If Yadav was here, he would have played, but since he is not and Shami has not lacked intensity, no issue in giving Aaron a chance.[/quote'] young bowlers lose intensity very easily just look back to last ashes in england where pattinson was bowlng at 130 k some how shami got intensity back to start a collapse so i think he is very near finding his rhythm back and everything will look fine when that happens
rkt.india Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 rkt himself said aaron was not ready for tests during warm ups but all of sudden he is ready ..i do not get this tbh but this is it for this topic match is on 27 an i am sure we will get clues about playing 11 n few day's time so no point discussing now Yes, I said he was not ready. Ishant was not looking good at that time too but because Ishant and BK have bowled well, we can take a risk in light of the fact that Shami has also been ineffective for the most part which will not make much of a difference. England's recent history against pace also favors him.
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 can anyone link me match in new zealand where aaron swung the ball ? i am just curious because i did not miss most of those matches ..with ipl i am certain as i saw all rcb matches because of aaron and that leg spinner
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Yes' date=' I said he was not ready. Ishant was not looking good at that time too but because Ishant and BK have bowled well, we can take a risk in light of the fact that Shami has also been ineffective for the most part which will not make much of a difference. England's recent history against pace also favors him.[/quote'] ineffective for most part ?he bowled in 3 innings one on patta and in first inning here he would have picked 3 if it was not for drop and we all say many plays and miss it was not match winning stuff but its not something you drop your youngster on after winning ..biggest hole in team is binny and any bowler who needs to play should replace him
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 can you tell me in which match he swng ball in new zealand ? would be glad to be proved wrong here tbh
rkt.india Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 can you tell me in which match he swng ball in new zealand ? would be glad to be proved wrong here tbh Even BK and Shami did not swing the ball much in those ODIs. The reason BK averaged 50 plus there. He did swung a few, not consistently but conditions were not that good for swing in most matches.
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Even BK and Shami did not swing the ball much in those ODIs. The reason BK averaged 50 plus there. He did swung a few' date=' not consistently but conditions were not that good for swing in most matches.[/quote'] that is not the point ...people here are saying aaron swung the ball in new zealand but i do not remember it
CG Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 that is not the point ...people here are saying aaron swung the ball in new zealand but i do not remember it He did in the odis i also remember.
rkt.india Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 ineffective for most part ?he bowled in 3 innings one on patta and in first inning here he would have picked 3 if it was not for drop and we all say many plays and miss it was not match winning stuff but its not something you drop your youngster on after winning ..biggest hole in team is binny and any bowler who needs to play should replace him I am not asking Shami to be dropped, instead Binny.
CG Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Shami has kept things tight even if he is not in best of form.
Old guy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 I am not asking Shami to be dropped' date=' instead Binny.[/quote'] and i agree aaron will be perfect for 4th seamer as he is different from every one else and has pace and can be used in short burst and be asked to just bowl quick without worrying as main bowler he cannot do that yep
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