PBN Posted October 1, 2014 Author Posted October 1, 2014 lol check out the starting point in this delivery
sensible-indian Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Given Ajmal and Senanayake were found to be straightening their arm by close to 40 degrees,I think these are close to 15 degrees and maybe slightly above too. I guess anything under 15 degrees would be difficult to even spot by these pics/videos I agree that the closest Saqlain comes to the doubtful category (15 degree) is when he bowls his doosra with his bent arm and not the straight one. He does that for some of his doosras (not all). But in general, he's fine. Spinners in today's era would be better off learning Saqlain's straight arm doosra. Would help them a lot.
sensible-indian Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Was Saqlain ever reported when we had a 5 degree rule? He bowled his doosras in the 90's and early 2000's. That's when Murali was reported right?
sensible-indian Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 lol check out the starting point in this delivery You have to consider the 3D aspect. Angles are measured in 3D. Its not a simple case. In fact I would say in motion, the same delivery looks more cleaner than the 2 frame version of the same delivery.
PBN Posted October 1, 2014 Author Posted October 1, 2014 You have to consider the 3D aspect. Angles are measured in 3D. Its not a simple case. In fact I would say in motion, the same delivery looks more cleaner than the 2 frame version of the same delivery. Check out the starting point and final straight arm :sherlock: There seems to be quite a lot of straightening imo P.S I thought you'd welcome me with something like Great job bro, keep them pictures coming :P
sensible-indian Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Check out the starting point and final straight arm :sherlock: There seems to be quite a lot of straightening imo P.S I thought you'd welcome me with something like Great job bro, keep them pictures coming :P Haha...definitely interesting pics.
Kadesh Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 I watched him play at the Oval for many years and would say he was fine.
Sajid_Rana Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKOeak8k8bo]Sachin Tendulkar Vs Saqlain Mushtaq - YouTube[/ame]
FischerTal Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk5trKf9E8Y]Virendra Sehwag ending Saqlain Mushtaq's career whilst scoring 309 at Multan, India vs Pakistan 2004 - YouTube[/ame]
kira Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk5trKf9E8Y]Virendra Sehwag ending Saqlain Mushtaq's career whilst scoring 309 at Multan' date=' India vs Pakistan 2004 - YouTube[/url'] Ahahahaha Sehwag ended both mushtaq's and chuckther's career Sachin ended both W's career The dynamic Indian pair ending pakistani careers since 2003 bwhahahaha B->
JaFanatic Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk5trKf9E8Y]Virendra Sehwag ending Saqlain Mushtaq's career whilst scoring 309 at Multan' date=' India vs Pakistan 2004 - YouTube[/url'] what a reply :hysterical:
rkt.india Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 Saqlain never chucked. His arm doesn't extend as much. You can bowl with a bent arm as much as you like. This is like some Pakistanis calling Ashwin a chucker. You cant bowl with bent arm without straightening, can you? Saqlain was not clean but he was not as blatant.
rkt.india Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 That's a debatable delivery. I agree. From what I have seen, almost all deliveries of Saqlain are clean. This one might be a bit near the edge. We would never know. Doosra cannot be bowled without chucking. We will never how much he chucked though.
sensible-indian Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 You cant bowl with bent arm without straightening' date=' can you? Saqlain was not clean but he was not as blatant.[/quote'] Yes, you can't. But little bit straightening within limits is fine. Every bowler straightens his arm. Most bowlers start with a small bend and straighten from there on so much so that the bend doesn't look visible at all. Saqlain's some deliveries start with more bend but straightens just a little.
sensible-indian Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 Doosra cannot be bowled without chucking. We will never how much he chucked though. How can you declare doosra cannot be bowled legally? See Saqlain's straight arm doosra (in some video). It looks very clean. His bent arm doosra looks more debatable but even that I think is fine. For proper doosra, you need strong wrists to generate the power. Also Saqlain didn't bowl those dodgy fast doosras that Ajmal bowled. His were slow floaty ones.
rkt.india Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 How can you declare doosra cannot be bowled legally? See Saqlain's straight arm doosra (in some video). It looks very clean. His bent arm doosra looks more debatable but even that I think is fine. For proper doosra, you need strong wrists to generate the power. Also Saqlain didn't bowl those dodgy fast doosras that Ajmal bowled. His were slow floaty ones. There is no straight arm doosra that is just a top spinner, a straighter one. To bowl a doosra without bending your elbow, you will have to have rubbery wrist.
rkt.india Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 Yes, you can't. But little bit straightening within limits is fine. Every bowler straightens his arm. Most bowlers start with a small bend and straighten from there on so much so that the bend doesn't look visible at all. Saqlain's some deliveries start with more bend but straightens just a little. If you find kink in an action with naked eyes then it means, it is over 15 degrees. Up to 15 degrees, naked eyes cannot see the kink. This is the reason likes of McGrath, Pollock, etc. were measured up to 13 degrees but with naked eyes, no one ever thought they had kink, but they actually had. So any bowler who you see has kink is definitely over 15 degrees. Even 20 is not a big issue but when people are chucking 40 degrees and even on their normal stock off spinners then there is a problem. Then it becomes difficult for batsmen to differentiate between doosre and a normal off spinner because both are chucked. If normal off spin is not chucked then it is easier to read doosra for batsmen.
sensible-indian Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 There is no straight arm doosra that is just a top spinner' date=' a straighter one. To bowl a doosra without bending your elbow, you will have to have rubbery wrist.[/quote'] The intent was doosra. Some go straight, some turn just a bit. Yes but the question is whether Saqlain was within limits. No one denies you have to bend your elbow and extend it (more) to bowl doosras. Saqlain didn't bowl fast doosras, just slow floaty ones.
sensible-indian Posted October 2, 2014 Posted October 2, 2014 If you find kink in an action with naked eyes then it means' date=' it is over 15 degrees. Up to 15 degrees, naked eyes cannot see the kink. This is the reason likes of McGrath, Pollock, etc. were measured up to 13 degrees but with naked eyes, no one ever thought they had kink, but they actually had. [b']So any bowler who you see has kink is definitely over 15 degrees. Even 20 is not a big issue but when people are chucking 40 degrees and even on their normal stock off spinners then there is a problem. Then it becomes difficult for batsmen to differentiate between doosre and a normal off spinner because both are chucked. If normal off spin is not chucked then it is easier to read doosra for batsmen. Saqlain's deliveries when viewed in video doesn't have much kink. Only the image in Post #14 has a kink. His bent arm doosra could be around the 15 limits. Its definitely not 40 degrees for sure (which we can see by comparing the amount of extension Ajmal and Saqlain gets).
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