The folly of shielding the tail

[Mr. Wicket]

bumpski

[Jersey #10]

Please don't insult Waugh by comparing him with Laxman.

[The Outsider]

Great bump Salil. Laxman added 120 runs with the tail showing why he is one of the best batsmen to bat with the tail. On the other hand, Shoaib Malik on the same day perished in trying to 'shield the tail', showing once again what a moronic concept 'shielding the tail' is.

[asterix]

Ha ha ha.. What a new concept of COWARDICE by taking a run in the first ball and hope the tailender will fend the remaining 5 balls or not taking run in the last ball and hoping the tailender to survive the new over....What a Space Age concept!! Any Coward batsman can do that. All it takes is to scoot for a single.. It will be interesting to know how much VVS COWARD accumulated individually in those 'out of the World' partnerships.. And if nothing works (means if the tailenders are not getting out quickly) get yourself run out..

[Ram]

Lol, Laxman didn’t shield the tail for obvious reasons – It wouldn’t have worked at all. The whole point of the specialist batsmen hoggin the strike is so that the fielding captain responds by bringing the field up in the last couple of balls of the over so that the specialist batsmen can try to go over the top and score some quick/easy runs. But VVS is no power-hitter, nor is he capable of going over the top. If he tried the shielding tactics, it would have flopped miserably and he would have gotten out the moment he tried to force the pace. And VVS is one of the best batsmen to bat with the tail? LMAO, I nearly fell of the chair when I read that. :omg:

[The Outsider]

Ha ha ha.. What a new concept of COWARDICE by taking a run in the first ball and hope the tailender will fend the remaining 5 balls or not taking run in the last ball and hoping the tailender to survive the new over....What a Space Age concept!! Any Coward batsman can do that. All it takes is to scoot for a single.. It will be interesting to know how much VVS COWARD accumulated individually in those 'out of the World' partnerships.. And if nothing works (means if the tailenders are not getting out quickly) get yourself run out..

Coward has one of the best records of batting with the tail in the history of cricket.

Lol, Laxman didn’t shield the tail for obvious reasons – It wouldn’t have worked at all. The whole point of the specialist batsmen hoggin the strike is so that the fielding captain responds by bringing the field up in the last couple of balls of the over so that the specialist batsmen can try to go over the top and score some quick/easy runs. But VVS is no power-hitter, nor is he capable of going over the top. If he tried the shielding tactics, it would have flopped miserably and he would have gotten out the moment he tried to force the pace. And VVS is one of the best batsmen to bat with the tail? LMAO, I nearly fell of the chair when I read that. :omg:

Same thing as above - Non power hitter has one of the best records of batting with the tail in the history of cricket. Now if you don't want to believe in numbers and results, you are welcome to bury your head further into the sand and LYAO.

[Clarke]

Great bump Salil. Laxman added 120 runs with the tail showing why he is one of the best batsmen to bat with the tail. On the other hand, Shoaib Malik on the same day perished in trying to 'shield the tail', showing once again what a moronic concept 'shielding the tail' is.

ur comparing Laxman @ Galle vs Malik @ Leeds :haha: Malik wouldnt himself survive long enough. To protect anything, u need a competent shield first.

[asterix]

Professor, there could be records but it could be because the Tailenders played out of their skin and not that VVS has done anything special. It doesn't takes much to take a single on the first ball. Any batsman can do that....The skill is of the tailenders who played the remaining balls and scored boundaries..

[The Outsider]

Professor' date=' there could be records but it could be because the Tailenders played out of their skin and not that VVS has done anything special. It doesn't takes much to take a single on the first ball. Any batsman can do that....[/quote'] Any theories why the tail plays out of their skins so consistently when batting with the likes of Laxman and Waugh? Read through the thread, most points have already been discussed and you guys are just burying your heads in the sand when you refuse to see the only thing which matters in the end - results. Here is the bottomline - Waugh and Laxman have one of the best records in cricket history batting with the tail. The obvious conclusion to draw is that their approach of not shielding the tail has been spot on. This is a sample spread over nearly 300 test matches.

[Lord]

shielding the tail is important,wen batting is tough or the bowler is bowling brilliantly. i still think Laxman should've tried to take most of Malinga.our tail is pretty good at playing spin.if Laxman hadnt got runout n played 1 hour more,who knows,it might hv been 0-0

[asterix]

I think the tail gets more confidence when they feel that they are 'on their own' and face more deliveries... But it's a hight risk startegy while playing against excessive appealing and crybaby teams like Lankans. You may succeed once but not everytime against these teams..

[Lord]

it also helps if the tail knows the job on hand n tries to support the main batsman rather than trying to be a hero like Bhajji did today.more than technique,match awareness is what matters

[Bumper]

I did not watch Laxy bat in this test match, so no comments. But having seen Laxman bat with the tail in the past, his record not withstanding, whatever happens in his partnerships with the tail is "inspite" of him not "because" of him. As for conclusions about Laxman's prowess to bat with the tail, I'd say this. 1) Akash Chopra has one of the best records as an overseas opener for India - does not make him one of the best test openers for India. 2) Kris Srikkanth has an avg of 25 as an ODI bowler (whereas Bhajji averages 32) - does not make Srikkanth a better spinner than Bhajji. In this case, Laxy's stats are anamolous, does not say much about his prowess to bat with the tail.

[Ram]

The whole ‘Laxman is one of the best batsmen to bat with the tail’ claim is so ironic because you’re crediting a batsmen for essentially doing nothing (if going the definition of a good batsmen batting with the novice batsmen is a one who acts as though nothing’s changed, bats perfectly normally, rotates the strike when he can, scores a boundary when presented with the opportunity etc). If we’re are to go by the ‘looks at VVS records when he’s batting with the tail’ statememt, the only conclusion we can possibly draw from that is that the list of lower order batsmen who featured in those partnerships are very good when batting with VVS, but VVS is one of the best batsmen to bat with the tail..? :hmmmm2: ANY batsmen can bat like he does with the tail, even other tail-enders.

[asterix]

Yes, even Ishant too batted well with his immediate tail end Ojha after VVS departed..:giggle:

[gaurav92]

Well on a dead pitch, anyone could have played well, Ishant for that matter looked very comfortable and the slowness of the track enabled him to read Murali off the pitch.So it wasn't a great innings :headshake:

[Ram]

Yes' date=' even Ishant too batted well with his immediate tail end Ojha after VVS departed..:giggle:[/quote'] Exactly. Even Ishant Sharma and Ojha added 25 runs for the 10th wicket. So that makes Pragyan Ojha a very good batsmen batting with the tail, never mind he’s a no.11 himself? Bumper nailed it on the head when he said any illusionary stats that you can post, supporting the case of VVS’s style of batting with the tail is more ‘despite’ VVS and less ‘because of’ of VVS. It tells more about the tail-enders who took part in that partnership, than it says about VVS.

[thevortex]

I agree entirely with Outsider. Laxman has been showcasing the way time and time again. There simply cannot be any criticism on the lines of 'he is selfish' anymore. He has produced the goods more often than not.

[The Outsider]

I did not watch Laxy bat in this test match, so no comments. But having seen Laxman bat with the tail in the past, his record not withstanding, whatever happens in his partnerships with the tail is "inspite" of him not "because" of him. As for conclusions about Laxman's prowess to bat with the tail, I'd say this. 1) Akash Chopra has one of the best records as an overseas opener for India - does not make him one of the best test openers for India. 2) Kris Srikkanth has an avg of 25 as an ODI bowler (whereas Bhajji averages 32) - does not make Srikkanth a better spinner than Bhajji. In this case, Laxy's stats are anamolous, does not say much about his prowess to bat with the tail.

The whole ‘Laxman is one of the best batsmen to bat with the tail’ claim is so ironic because you’re crediting a batsmen for essentially doing nothing (if going the definition of a good batsmen batting with the novice batsmen is a one who acts as though nothing’s changed, bats perfectly normally, rotates the strike when he can, scores a boundary when presented with the opportunity etc). If we’re are to go by the ‘looks at VVS records when he’s batting with the tail’ statememt, the only conclusion we can possibly draw from that is that the list of lower order batsmen who featured in those partnerships are very good when batting with VVS, but VVS is one of the best batsmen to bat with the tail..? :hmmmm2: ANY batsmen can bat like he does with the tail, even other tail-enders.

Bumper, what is the sample size for Chopra and Srikkanth and how does it compare with the sample size of Laxman? This is not some anomalous stat - it's a snapshot of a 100+ test match career. And to argue that such consistently good record of batting with tail over such a long career is some freak event does not wash. Since this thread, Laxman has only added on to his successful forays with the tail with yesterday being the latest example. If his approach was wrong, surely it would have come back to bite the team over 111 test matches. MM, what you have described, " the definition of a good batsmen batting with the novice batsmen is a one who acts as though nothing’s changed, bats perfectly normally, rotates the strike when he can, scores a boundary when presented with the opportunity etc" is exactly what Waugh used to do. I've given examples of it earlier in the thread. Is he or is he not considered one of the best batsmen playing with the tail?

[thevortex]

Exactly. Even Ishant Sharma and Ojha added 25 runs for the 10th wicket. So that makes Pragyan Ojha a very good batsmen batting with the tail, never mind he’s a no.11 himself? Bumper nailed it on the head when he said any illusionary stats that you can post, supporting the case of VVS’s style of batting with the tail is more ‘despite’ VVS and less ‘because of’ of VVS. It tells more about the tail-enders who took part in that partnership, than it says about VVS.

It is actually about the confidence that batsmen like VVS impart to the tailenders. That is why they blossom. Where they are refused strike, these same tailenders shrink and wither.