G_B_ Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 Chinese = Russian copy design' date=' Russin Engines. Pak will also get critical access to top end Indian tech, its very risky.[/quote'] historically the chinese have reverse engineered. but they are moving away from that. birds like the J-10 indicate the chinese from this point will trust their own research and innovation. The J-10 for example was based on the Israeli Lavi. China has enough industrial capacity to be self sufficient in most arenas as of now.
G_B_ Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 also i think we need to give the chinese the proper respect they deserve they are making rapid progress in the defense arena. Cartoons such as the ones posted in this thread are just disrespectful. Ditto a country like south korea. Not historically a weapons exporter but is making some very good equipment especially for the navy. Affordable and efficient. As the work force and industry.
Malcolm Merlyn Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 also i think we need to give the chinese the proper respect they deserve they are making rapid progress in the defense arena. Cartoons such as the ones posted in this thread are just disrespectful. Ditto a country like south korea. Not historically a weapons exporter but is making some very good equipment especially for the navy. Affordable and efficient. As the work force and industry. Not a single Chinese system is battle proven.Also their biggest buyers are Pakistanis who are known to hype up or even lie about their weapons capability.
G_B_ Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Not a single Chinese system is battle proven.Also their biggest buyers are Pakistanis who are known to hype up or even lie about their weapons capability. based on that logic India's fleet of T-72s is **** because they did so poorly when USA invaded Iraq. Thats like more than half the tanks in the Indian army which are proven to be **** in actual battle. When exactly has something like the Rafale for example been ever truly tested in war? The thing is chinese hardware currently is not as good as the western nations. But its cheap enough to be inducted in large numbers. So your talking about an overall battle strategy. However in the next 10-15 years that tech gap will be breached.
Sachin=GOD Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Russia is upset that India is signing defence pacts with western nations.So this is a way of trying to arm twist India.Lets see what happens when Putin visits India. Btw Pakistan is so dependent on USA AID that it will be interesting to see if US allows Pakistan to buy anything from Russia using US money. this co operation between russia and pakistan means jack 90% of pakistani hardware in the next 10-15 years will be of chinese origin. At max you can see russia supplying some niche products such as engines etc. I think India will continue to buy lots of russian hardware in the future. However the proportion will decrease. More than european nations is it Israel with whom India will seal bigger deals. The truth is India cannot afford western military tech in numbers which it needs to cover its borders. China, Pakistan ink $45 billion infrastructure deal China has signed an agreement to build 45.6 billion dollars (USD) worth of infrastructure and energy projects in Pakistan over the next six years. The accord, dubbed the China-Pak Economic Corridor (CPEC), was one of over 20 inked by Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif during his visit to China earlier this month, Reuters reported on Friday. Under the CPEC agreement, Beijing has promised to invest USD 11.8 billion in infrastructure schemes and some USD 33.8 billion in energy projects. The Chinese government as well as several banks will loan funds to Chinese companies investing in the projects. "Pakistan will not be taking on any more debt through these projects," said Pakistan's Minister for Water and Power and Defence Khawaja Asif. The latest round of investments in Pakistan are part of Islamabad’s efforts to deal with the problem of power shortages in the Asian country. Under the CPEC deal, USD 15.5 billion worth of wind, coal, hydro and solar energy projects are also expected to come online by 2017. During his trip to China, Sharif also signed projects worth USD 622 million related to the construction of a port in the southwestern Pakistani city of Gwadar. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/11/22/387035/china-pakistan-sign-45-billion-deal/
Precambrian Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Lmao, pak selling out to USA and now to China...
G_B_ Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 they should have sold out to china a long time ago especially in hardware American systems are expensive to maintain. something which the pak military could not afford. The J-10 is an inferior bird to the latest batch of F-16s. But its cheap to maintain and has plenty of easily accessible spare parts. In the 90s half the Pakistani F-16 fleet was grounded because of lack of spares and sanctions from the USA meant they could not buy new ones.
Crookbond Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Am I the ONLY one to see this trolling? Basically, we would now have a US president to watch a Soviet style military demonstration ...! Interesting facts - In 1965, Pakistan's Food and Agriculture Minister was a chief guest at the R-day parade and few days later India went to war with Pakistan. Something similar happened with China in 1955 (albeit the war happened a few years later).
BeautifulGame Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 From Jinping to Obama: Here's how the world still hyphenates India with Pakistan United States President Barack Obama telephoned Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on Friday to inform him about his decision to visit India as chief guest of the Indian Republic Day. Chinese President Xi Jinping had planned to visit Pakistan in September this year just before he had paid his maiden visit to India but had to cancel the trip at the eleventh hour because of volatile political situation in Pakistan. Chinese Premier Li Keqiang had made India the destination of his first foreign visit in May 2013 but had proceeded straight to Pakistan after concluding his India visit. Nawaz Sharif expectedly adopted the me-too approach and asked Obama to visit Pakistan also but Obama did not make any commitment. Sample the quote of the Pakistan Prime Minister's Office: "The President (Obama) also assured the Prime Minister (Sharif) that he would undertake a visit to Pakistan at an early date, as soon as the situation normalizes in the country." And if Japan promised $35 billion investment in India for the next five years when Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited Japan in August-September, China too has committed to invest $45.6 billion for economic corridor in Pakistan over the next six years when Sharif recently visited China. The political message emanating from this is clear: the world is still hyphenating India with Pakistan. Pakistan may be going through the self-destruct mode with myriads of problems. Top foreign leaders may be avoiding visiting Pakistan for security reasons and political instability and top cricket playing countries may have refused to play cricket in Pakistan for the same reasons. And yet the fact is that the world is still cajoling Pakistan. The world is careful not to annoy Pakistan while improving relations with India. Why? The world is not much interested in forging trade and economic ties with Pakistan, a $250 billion economy, but deeply conscious of Pakistan's highly strategic location and Pakistan's biggest USP of being the only Islamic nation armed with a nuclear bomb. One must notice a subtle new trend with regard to Pakistan over the years. When it comes to important foreign officials visiting Pakistan the number of security and intelligence officials is far more than the number of presidents or prime ministers or ministers visiting Pakistan. The reason is obvious. Foreign officials visit Pakistan largely to discuss their own country's safety and security, at risk mainly because of Pakistan's numerous sins of omission and commission. That's why one would hardly hear about Pakistan attending major world summits like G20, G8 Plus, ASEAN, EAS (East Asia Summit) or BIMSTEC etc simply because Pakistan is not a member. Leaders of Pakistan have been so uni-focal on needling India by raising and nurturing terror machines for decades that they did not realise how much the world has changed and progressed in the past two decades. For decades, the Pakistani military has indoctrinated its politicians as well as the masses as to how India is the biggest threat to the survival of their nation. What has been happening in Pakistan for the last one decade is absolutely different. Terrorist and fundamentalist outfits, flourishing in Pakistan, have emerged as the biggest threat to Pakistan. More people have been killed in Pakistan by home-grown terrorists than in all the India-Pakistan wars till date. This is a fact which is now being acknowledged even by the powerful Pakistan Army also. Against this backdrop, it should be embarrassing for India to be bracketed with a country like Pakistan. But the diplomatic heft which Pakistan had till about 2001-02 is no longer there. Therefore, Nawaz Sharif may have urged Obama to raise the Kashmir issue with India during his January visit but in the heart of his hearts Sharif would know full well that nothing much is going to happen on this front. If India has to de-hyphenate itself from Pakistan for all times to come, it will have to ramp up its economic and military might. India will have to be a $10 trillion economy from the present $1.8 trillion. In fact just a few years from here, the world would be permanently de-hyphenating India and Pakistan. Till then India has to play its cards smartly. One such card is ensuring free and fair elections in Jammu and Kashmir which would navigate the state away from Pakistan for the next six years. By the time Obama arrives in India, results of elections in Jammu and Kashmir would have come. The ongoing assembly polls in Jammu and Kashmir are going to be most defining in the history of the state. If India is able to pull off the J&K polls peacefully, it would have won one of the many important battles before winning the all-important war when comparing India with Pakistan would become as ludicrous as comparing the US with Somalia.
Vilander Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 historically the chinese have reverse engineered. but they are moving away from that. birds like the J-10 indicate the chinese from this point will trust their own research and innovation. The J-10 for example was based on the Israeli Lavi. China has enough industrial capacity to be self sufficient in most arenas as of now. J-10 russian engines, rest of the planes russian design and engine. Chinese are good, they have or will have around 3000 4,4.5 fighters in some time, we wont even have 500.
FischerTal Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 What if Modi trolls Obama at the last minute and cancels his visa? :hmmm:
Vilander Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 From Jinping to Obama: Here's how the world still hyphenates India with Pakistan Simplistic and dumb article, like many that one can read in Firstpost, Let me quote the article for you. http://www.firstpost.com/world/jinping-obama-heres-world-still-hyphenates-india-pakistan-1817431.html There is no hyphenating of India and Pakistan, this is just global diplomacy, no nation would give up its interests. US and China have substantial interests in pakistan that about it. Elections in JK have happened before they wont ensure anything beyond local governance.
Vilander Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Am I the ONLY one to see this trolling? Basically, we would now have a US president to watch a Soviet style military demonstration ...! Interesting facts - In 1965, Pakistan's Food and Agriculture Minister was a chief guest at the R-day parade and few days later India went to war with Pakistan. Something similar happened with China in 1955 (albeit the war happened a few years later). Dude the biggest navy in Asia is the 7th fleet and US naval air arm is bigger than any other airforce in Asia, for Obama it would be like attending a rag tag central african banana republic parade in terms of shock and awe value. There is no trolling, its excellent diplomacy from Modi to rope in US president for R day.
Vilander Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 based on that logic India's fleet of T-72s is **** because they did so poorly when USA invaded Iraq. Thats like more than half the tanks in the Indian army which are proven to be **** in actual battle. When exactly has something like the Rafale for example been ever truly tested in war? The thing is chinese hardware currently is not as good as the western nations. But its cheap enough to be inducted in large numbers. So your talking about an overall battle strategy. However in the next 10-15 years that tech gap will be breached. Rafale has been proven in combat in Afg,Libya,Mali..dude what are you talking about. Chinese fighters are not combat proven thats a big problem they have, chinese are not combat proven military, they are a huge one with potentially super power but not combat proven.
Crookbond Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Dude the biggest navy in Asia is the 7th fleet and US naval air arm is bigger than any other airforce in Asia' date=' for Obama it would be like attending a rag tag central african banana republic parade in terms of shock and awe value. There is no trolling, its excellent diplomacy from Modi to rope in US president for R day.[/quote'] You made a tangential point. A US president will witness a Soviet style parade was the trolling part. Further, R-Day chief guests have had little or no value on diplomacy.
Kalia_Test Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 link India on Saturday invited bids for a $2.4-billion artillery deal while deferring a decision on acquiring 106 Swiss Pilatus aircraft for fighter pilot training. The bid for 814 mounted guns is the first big artillery tender in nearly three decades since the scandal-hit Swedish Bofors guns deal in 1987. The Defence Acquisition Council, which clears high-value military procurements, issued the tender after holding its first meeting under new Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar. The high-value bid comes as India seeks to replace its old 105mm light field guns with a mix of towed, mounted and wheeled artillery. "The minister took stock and stressed on fast and transparent acquisitions," a source in the defence ministry told AFP. But a decision to acquire basic aircraft trainers from Switzerland "was deferred to a later date", the source said. India, the world's largest buyer of weapons, had signed a deal for 75 Pilatus Basic Trainer Aircraft in 2012 and has inducted 53 of them till now. In March, the ministry issued a "request for information" for the procurement of an additional 106 trainers under its "buy and make" procurement category. Under this provision, some equipment is bought from abroad and the rest is made domestically. India's government is keen on such arrangements as they involve technology transfers and boost local manufacturing. India is in the midst of revamping its ageing military equipment and recently lifted a cap on foreign investment in defence. The Pilatus deal is part of India's ambitious plans to replace its outdated collection of Soviet-era aircraft. The Russian-made MiG-21s have been tagged "flying coffins" for their abysmal safety record. The defence council also considered a proposal by global aircraft major Airbus Defence and Space and India's Tata Advanced Systems Ltd to offer the Airbus C295 medium transport to replace the air force's fleet of 56 Avro aircraft. India's right-wing government, which swept to power in May, has pledged to streamline and speed up the procurement process which was hit by delays and corruption allegations during the previous Congress coalition. India has been keen to move ahead with defence orders amid a string of new border skirmishes with arch-rival Pakistan in the disputed Kashmir region and an increasingly assertive China in the far northeast.
Sachin=GOD Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 You made a tangential point. A US president will witness a Soviet style parade was the trolling part. Further' date=' [b']R-Day chief guests have had little or no value on diplomacy. Thata because mostly the Presidents/PMs of small countries come. This time its the US Prez (and it will most probably be Obama's last India visit as Prez) - there sure as hell will be diplomacy.
KeyboardWarrior Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Russia for strengthening energy ties MOSCOW: Pakistan and Russia have agreed to cooperate in oil and gas exploration and other transnational energy projects, including CASA-1000 and Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India (TAPI) pipeline. http://www.dawn.com/news/1146068/russia-for-strengthening-energy-ties
KeyboardWarrior Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 historically the chinese have reverse engineered. but they are moving away from that. birds like the J-10 indicate the chinese from this point will trust their own research and innovation. The J-10 for example was based on the Israeli Lavi. China has enough industrial capacity to be self sufficient in most arenas as of now. Add this one too in our future Shopping list .... Shenyang/FC-31/J-31 PAF wants to buy Chinese stealth aircraft ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has expressed interest in procuring fourth generation stealth fighter aircraft FC-31 from China. http://www.dawn.com/news/1146104/paf-wants-to-buy-chinese-stealth-aircraft-minister
vayuu1 Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Add this one too in our future Shopping list .... Shenyang/FC-31/J-31 PAF wants to buy Chinese stealth aircraft http://www.dawn.com/news/1146104/paf-wants-to-buy-chinese-stealth-aircraft-minister Pardon me KW,but didn't j-31 got bad reviews from foreign and Chinese analyst at the Chinese air show.
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