Can you select Ashwin purely as a bowler or purely as a batsman?

[Old guy]

Why play at home then?

let me give u context here no one is here criticizing ashwin hme performance but away ones and now our next series (team is already in australia ) is away one and it starts soon and ashwin will be in contention so that is what topic is about next thing people do not get is no one expects him to win matches but people want tight spell and 2 wickets every inning specially if we reduce them to 20-2 or 40-3 like we did on last tour in 3 matches he played in

[bowl_out]

^^Exactly. I don't think spinners win matches for you overseas... I don't expect Ashwin to get you a 5-for. I'd be happy if he can bowl 25 overs for 60 and pick up 2 wickets.... and get 30-40 with the bat.... and hang around with Saha/Dhoni/Rahane

[Old guy]

^^Exactly. I don't think spinners win matches for you overseas... I don't expect Ashwin to get you a 5-for. I'd be happy if he can bowl 25 overs for 60 and pick up 2 wickets.... and get 30-40 with the bat.... and hang around with Saha/Dhoni/Rahane

that would be perfect even without batting part and on last day he should become main threat on these pitches herath and swann both bowled well in 2nd innings and that is expected from spinner even when australia were destroying england with johnson ..lyon kept contributing 2-3 wickets and very tight spells which is all you need here

[bowl_out]

The batting part is required because I expect him to play at 7... with four quicks to follow...but if he can prove his worth with the ball consistently, we can play an additional batsman if required.

[Old guy]

The batting part is required because I expect him to play at 7... with four quicks to follow...but if he can prove his worth with the ball consistently' date=' we can play an additional batsman if required.[/quote'] if he has ability (which he does ) he should obviously contribute but if he plays only as spinner even then him bowling tightly and picking wickets atleast 2 per inning is good performance

[Straight Drive]

As the batsmen flop on overseas wickets, the team will expect runs from the bowlers. Ashwin is the best of the batsmen amongst bowlers with test average of around 40 runs. He will be preferred. As to whom i want and don't want, forget Ashwin, i would not even have Dhoni and Raina in the test squad for Australia tour.

[Old guy]

average of 40 is bit too much i iwll be happy if all of our main batsman get that but bhuvi and him need to contribute combined 40-50 ...agree with that

[Crookbond]

/offtopic I'd take Katrina over Ashwin

[Straight Drive]

Sorry, just realized that his test average has fallen from 40 to 39. Also checked that he has a test average of 33 in Australia, which is very good for a Indian bowler.

[bowl_out]

Sorry' date=' just realized that his test average has fallen from 40 to 39. Also checked that he has a test average of 33 in Australia, which is very good for a Indian bowler.[/quote'] To add some perspective here, Virat Kohli, the only other Indian batsman in the current squad to have played a Test in Australia averages 37.5 there... And he was the best batsman when we toured in 2011-12

[Straight Drive]

To add some perspective here' date=' Virat Kohli, the only other Indian batsman in the current squad to have played a Test in Australia averages 37.5 there... And he was the best batsman when we toured in 2011-12[/quote'] We all know how many runs can our 5 specialist batsmen post in Australia. We saw it in NewZealand, SouthAfrica, England. same players won't change their batting performance overnight. Runs from bowlers will be a key. Ashwin will be considered as he has test average of 39 overall and average of 33 in Australia. Bhuvi too can score runs as was proved in England. They both have a massive advantage considering their batting perfromances. Also Karn Sharma is not an Ajmal or Shane Warne. In fact we don't even know whether he can be better than even Piyush Chawla in long run. So there is hardly anything to choose between Ashwin and Karn in bowling aspects. Similarly there is not much difference between Bhuvi and other pacers in terms of bowling. They will hence likely go for bowlers who can score 50's and make a partnership of 100 or more with the No 5 or No 6. Let us wake up and realize this is not an ODI series in India versus SL. We have a test series in Australia. Honeymoon period is over :nervous:

[Straight Drive]

average of 40 is bit too much i iwll be happy if all of our main batsman get that but bhuvi and him need to contribute combined 40-50 ...agree with that

Was it Dhoni who said the bowlers need to contribute at least 100 runs totally. If so then Bhuvi - Ashwin has to score at least 70 of those. Can't expect more than 30 from Umesh and Ishant.

[bowl_out]

Was it Dhoni who said the bowlers need to contribute at least 100 runs totally. If so then Bhuvi - Ashwin has to score at least 70 of those. Can't expect more than 30 from Umesh and Ishant.

That was a foolish statement from Dhoni. Four bowlers expected to contribute 100 runs when batsmen, whose main job is batting, struggle to contribute 150? This expectation is what let us down in Tests 3,4,5 against England... I would expect Ashwin to contribute with the bat, because I see him as something more than a bowler... But what we get from Bhuvi, Ishant and other fast bowlers is a bonus and not an expectation... In fact, if I had an expectation from them, it would be to hang on for 40-50 balls, even if they score 5 runs, if there is Rahane / Saha / Ashwin at the other end.

[ShebbySB]

Can you select Ashwin purely as a bowler or purely as a batsman? If not, drop him for Brisbane Test. Ridiculous to think he is going to score runs against raging Aus pacers at Brisbane. Either select him because he is better than other batsmen or bowlers. If neither, just drop him and play 2 pacers (UY, VA) + 2 medium pacers (BK, MS or IS) Ashwin is no Flintoff, or Gary Sobers or even Vettori .....meaning he is NOT an allrounder. Drop him if he cannot play purely as a bat or bowl. We will be wasting a spot otherwise.

Shami or Ishant are not medium pacers they are fast-med,BK is med-fast.Umesh & Aaron are fast.

[Marut]

Can we refer to his stats outside the subcontinent?

Even Kumble has very mediocre outside SC stats during his first 10 years. During the 99 tour to Australia, Kumble averaged 90 something at a strike rate of 180 something, tallying 5/460 over the entire series. This was during the eighth year of his career, mind you. Asking for a spinner's outside SC stats is pointless, especially for a spinner with less than 5 years of international exposure. No Indian spinner after the spin legends of the 70s have managed to create an impression outside the SC during the early part of their career. The odd times it has happened was when the opposition was a weak team or some how the conditions favoured the spinner. Ashwin can also exploit these conditions if they present themselves. The question we have before us is this. Should we take any spinner to Australia, or should we go with four pacers and a part time spinner? If the spinner option is on, whom should we select? Do we have a better alternative to Ashwin? Is there any proof for this? Remember Ashwin is a good batsman and can be expected to get one or two fifties (or even a hundred) during the tour. Which other spinner can be expected to do this? This subcontinental mentality has to cease. Pace bowlers hailing from countries like SA and Australia are highly respected by their fans for their astounding pace friendly home performances . Most of these pacers cut a sorry figure in the SC, but they are still highly regarded in their countries. Only SC fans have the inferiority complex and try to discredit home performances of spinners, as if it was a very easy thing for every spinner in the country. If India decides to take a spinner to Australia, Ashwin is the first choice, due to his strong bowling record coupled with his ability with the bat. Ashwin may not deliver with the bat every time, but he certainly has potential and I am pretty sure he can become a Shastri like batsman at the very least.

[achilles]

Why play at home then?

Incredibly stupid argument to say the least.

Even Kumble has very mediocre outside SC stats during his first 10 years. During the 99 tour to Australia, Kumble averaged 90 something at a strike rate of 180 something, tallying 5/460 over the entire series. This was during the eighth year of his career, mind you. Asking for a spinner's outside SC stats is pointless, especially for a spinner with less than 5 years of international exposure. No Indian spinner after the spin legends of the 70s have managed to create an impression outside the SC during the early part of their career. The odd times it has happened was when the opposition was a weak team or some how the conditions favoured the spinner. Ashwin can also exploit these conditions if they present themselves. The question we have before us is this. Should we take any spinner to Australia, or should we go with four pacers and a part time spinner? If the spinner option is on, whom should we select? Do we have a better alternative to Ashwin? Is there any proof for this? Remember Ashwin is a good batsman and can be expected to get one or two fifties (or even a hundred) during the tour. Which other spinner can be expected to do this? This subcontinental mentality has to cease. Pace bowlers hailing from countries like SA and Australia are highly respected by their fans for their astounding pace friendly home performances . Most of these pacers cut a sorry figure in the SC, but they are still highly regarded in their countries. Only SC fans have the inferiority complex and try to discredit home performances of spinners, as if it was a very easy thing for every spinner in the country. If India decides to take a spinner to Australia, Ashwin is the first choice, due to his strong bowling record coupled with his ability with the bat. Ashwin may not deliver with the bat every time, but he certainly has potential and I am pretty sure he can become a Shastri like batsman at the very least.

There is no excuse for poor performance. We cannot wait for 4-5yrs. This is not like a 5yr lock-in Fixed Deposit to save taxes, this is a sport. And we have a billion people. If Ashwin can't do the job, hard luck. We surely have enough talent in our country to replace him. Talking about pacers from other countries, I feel they get respected here because they are reasonably successful. And its not like they have a captain from their IPL team who will pick them in their squad come what may, or a Board boss for who's company he's also an employee. Players from other countries bend their back and perform. And when they don't they're shown the door. They don't warm their chairs endlessly. It is frustrating to see a mini CSK representing India when deserving players don't even get picked.

[fineleg]

Remember Ashwin is a good batsman and can be expected to get one or two fifties (or even a hundred) during the tour. Which other spinner can be expected to do this?

This is Aussie land, not some patta in India. If he can hang around for 15 overs, that will be an achievement. He is still a tailender. Either he bowls well, and merits selection, or he sits out.

[CG]

This is Aussie land' date=' not some patta in India. If he can hang around for 15 overs, that will be an achievement. He is still a tailender. Either he bowls well, and merits selection, or he sits out.[/quote'] He was one of our best batsman last tour.But he has to be selected on Bowling,the leggie is also a decent bat.

[Lord]

He was one of our best batsman last tour.But he has to be selected on Bowling' date='the leggie is also a decent bat.[/quote'] No spinner is good enough to be selected only on bowling in these conditions.Either you 4 pacers and 6 batsmen or 4 pacers and a spinner allrounder i.e. Ashwin

[Marut]

This is Aussie land' date=' not some patta in India. If he can hang around for 15 overs, that will be an achievement. He is still a tailender. Either he bowls well, and merits selection, or he sits out.[/quote'] Why not? He scored 62 at Sydney last time and was scoring them fluently as well, at strike rates of 80 odd. Ashwin averaged 32.6 with the bat last time, only just behind Kohli and Tendulkar, and way ahead of all other so called proper batsmen.