Seamers have pace now but still shyte!!

[Lord]

Forget cricinfo everywhere the headlines where about dhonis tactics in media where as they were nothing new or innovative.Dhonis does not go take the blame for bowling tactics which fail so no way he should get any credit. Shami are not suited to bowling short like aaron can aaron is one of the quickest in the world and can maintain pace.yadav can but he is not effective like that why the hell would you try a tactic when bowling line and length got us wickets yesterday ,even if you do change when it does not work.These are young bowlers they hardly have guts to call out the captain they need a place first.

Dhoni does get the blame for tactics overall.Everybody is calling for his head.Its only in that Test he got credit and rightly so. So did you credit his tactic of bowling length yesterday?No you credited the bowlers rightly.Now bowlers have to take blame too.Plan might have been poor but bowlers should know how to execute them too.Same Shami and Ishant did well with this at Lords but couldnt do here.

[express bowling]

Why not give credit to both the players and the captain when some tactic works ? And blame both the player and the captain when a tactic backfires .... unless the failure is solely due to faulty implementation of a clearly good plan. Why is just one aspect picked up and blamed or praised ? When medium pacers are failing then .....pace will solve everything !! Now that fast bowlers have got hit ... pace is useless !! Why not recognize that multiple factors working together bring success. A good captain + good bowlers + good fielders bring consistent wickets. Pace/bounce + accuracy + movement + execution of good plans make a good pacer. Just a single factor is not much help.

[Lord]

Why not give credit to both the players and the captain when some tactic works ? And blame both the player and the captain when a tactic backfires .... unless the failure is solely due to faulty implementation of a clearly good plan. Why is just one aspect picked up and blamed or praised ? When medium pacers are failing then .....pace will solve everything !! Now that fast bowlers have got hit ... pace is useless !! Why not recognize that multiple factors working together bring success. A good captain + a good bowler + good fielders bring consistent wickets. Pace/bounce + accuracy + movement + execution of good plans make a good pacer. Just a single factor is not much help.

exactly

[Straight Drive]

Dhoni should be blamed only for his mistakes, like dropping catches as keeper,missed stumpings and runouts, not scoring runs when he fails. But no point blaming him for bowlers performances. Yes, good captain can help get one wicket out of the 20 in a test match due to very good field placements for individual batters, good bowling change, good strategy etc. But bowlers still have to take 19 wickets every match even considering that good captaincy brings one wicket. However, in first test our bowlers picked only 12 wickets and only 16 wickets in second test. In first test Aussies declared in both innings that too after scoring 517/7 and 290/5. Managed to dismiss their entire lineup in only one innings that too after they had scored massive 505 runs in second test. So when they should have taken 40 wickets in two tests they have taken only 28. Let's assume that Dhoni's captaincy could have been better as some say and add 2 more wickets. Still just 30 and 10 wickets short. Does one expects Dhoni to take 2 wickets every test with his captaincy when specialist bowlers are themselves struggling to pick even 2 wickets every innings on their own. The issue is with the chances that bowlers generate. They have to generate more than 20 wicket taking chances in every test because each and every team drops at least 2 or more catches every test, even good fielding teams. But then we end up with bowlers who can pick only 12 and 16.

[CG]

Dhoni does get the blame for tactics overall.Everybody is calling for his head.Its only in that Test he got credit and rightly so. So did you credit his tactic of bowling length yesterday?No you credited the bowlers rightly.Now bowlers have to take blame too.Plan might have been poor but bowlers should know how to execute them too.Same Shami and Ishant did well with this at Lords but couldnt do here.

The time for credit debit with dhoni has long gone.After repeated white washes and repeating same mistake you may forget i do not.

[Lord]

The time for credit debit with dhoni has long gone.After repeated white washes and repeating same mistake you may forget i do not.

Nobody has forgotten anything.Still want him out but that doesnt blame him for everything while giving others free pass

[Lord]

Dhoni should be blamed only for his mistakes, like dropping catches as keeper,missed stumpings and runouts, not scoring runs when he fails. But no point blaming him for bowlers performances. Yes, good captain can help get one wicket out of the 20 in a test match due to very good field placements for individual batters, good bowling change, good strategy etc. But bowlers still have to take 19 wickets every match even considering that good captaincy brings one wicket. However, in first test our bowlers picked only 12 wickets and only 16 wickets in second test. In first test Aussies declared in both innings that too after scoring 517/7 and 290/5. Managed to dismiss their entire lineup in only one innings that too after they had scored massive 505 runs in second test. So when they should have taken 40 wickets in two tests they have taken only 28. Let's assume that Dhoni's captaincy could have been better as some say and add 2 more wickets. Still just 30 and 10 wickets short. Does one expects Dhoni to take 2 wickets every test with his captaincy when specialist bowlers are themselves struggling to pick even 2 wickets every innings on their own. The issue is with the chances that bowlers generate. They have to generate more than 20 wicket taking chances in every test because each and every team drops at least 2 or more catches every test, even good fielding teams. But then we end up with bowlers who can pick only 12 and 16.

True

[vijay50]

Now Dhoni and selectors will use this excuse that pacers are not delivering and bring Vinni Kumar and Abhimanyu Mithun.

[Insidious]

It is said that 'There is no substitute for pace', which is probably true. But the bigger fact is - 'There is no substitute for common sense'. Look at Bhuvi - No real pace, no height. Then how he was the most successful bowler for India in England? Because he bowls with brain, and uses his common sense. In the lord Test, he was the one who restricted England inside 320, on a track which got much better for batting. The way he bowled to england's tail (who are known for their batting talent), was something that I wanted our other bowlers to emulate. No short stuff, No round-the- wicket madness, No crazy variation in length, he just bowled on the 4th stump line and swung the ball. Now is it rocket science?Is it something which is hard to decipher?Oh bowlers! Just apply your common sense!

[express bowling]

^ Neither brain-dead fast bowlers nor brainy 125 k seamers will give us test level strike bowlers. We need pacers with decent brain + decent pace if we want strike bowlers .

[express bowling]

Dhoni should be blamed only for his mistakes, like dropping catches as keeper,missed stumpings and runouts, not scoring runs when he fails. But no point blaming him for bowlers performances. Yes, good captain can help get one wicket out of the 20 in a test match due to very good field placements for individual batters, good bowling change, good strategy etc. But bowlers still have to take 19 wickets every match even considering that good captaincy brings one wicket. However, in first test our bowlers picked only 12 wickets and only 16 wickets in second test. In first test Aussies declared in both innings that too after scoring 517/7 and 290/5. Managed to dismiss their entire lineup in only one innings that too after they had scored massive 505 runs in second test. So when they should have taken 40 wickets in two tests they have taken only 28. Let's assume that Dhoni's captaincy could have been better as some say and add 2 more wickets. Still just 30 and 10 wickets short. Does one expects Dhoni to take 2 wickets every test with his captaincy when specialist bowlers are themselves struggling to pick even 2 wickets every innings on their own. The issue is with the chances that bowlers generate. They have to generate more than 20 wicket taking chances in every test because each and every team drops at least 2 or more catches every test, even good fielding teams. But then we end up with bowlers who can pick only 12 and 16.

Our bowlers are not good. Thing is .... they can and are replaced for bad performances ...maybe even for a couple of tests. But Dhoni has no accountability. Also it is a wrong assumption that only 1 out of 20 wickets is due to captaincy. Not changing a tactic even when it is not working for 1 hour or the entire series maybe, not having a 3rd man although 500 runs have been scored there for the series, placing fast bowlers at point, not picking a fast bowler with a test strike rate of 46 for 18 months, asking a short pacer with low bounce to bowl bouncers constantly ....I can go on. If all these factors were not there then our performances as a bowling unit would have been far better. If the batsmen are solely responsible for runs and bowlers are solely responsible for wickets and selectors are solely responsible for selecting then what is the need to have a captain ?

[Insidious]

^ Neither brain-dead fast bowlers nor brainy 125 k seamers will give us test level strike bowlers. We need pacers with decent brain + decent pace if we want strike bowlers .

True I am not a trundler fan. I Just stated a simple fact,that how bhuvi who neither have pace nor height, can get fair amount of success by just trusting his skill and using his brain. If only bowlers like yadav, aaron can show the same amount of application, they can be devastating. But ofcourse you need the backing of a good captain. But if the captain is brain-dead then what to do

[Straight Drive]

Our bowlers are not good. Thing is .... they can and are replaced for bad performances ...maybe even for a couple of tests. But Dhoni has no accountability. Also it is a wrong assumption that only 1 out of 20 wickets is due to captaincy. Not changing a tactic even when it is not working for 1 hour or the entire series maybe, not having a 3rd man although 500 runs have been scored there for the series, placing fast bowlers at point, not picking a fast bowler with a test strike rate of 46 for 18 months, asking a short pacer with low bounce to bowl bouncers constantly ....I can go on. If all these factors were not there then our performances as a bowling unit would have been far better. If the batsmen are solely responsible for runs and bowlers are solely responsible for wickets and selectors are solely responsible for selecting then what is the need to have a captain ?

I did say captain can get one odd wicket every test due to good captaincy. Read my previous post for that. Thats the most a captain can do as far as helping bowlers take wickets. And i have also said that Dhoni should be dropped as test captain because captain has many roles to play . I hope that clears that i do not want Dhoni as test captain but i also do not say that he is the reasons specifically for bowlers failures. Having criticised bowlers, i do agree that we need to support those who are selected and that they score runs, pick wickets and take catches etc . We should not want them to fail just because we do not like a certain cricketers skills, whoever he is.

[rkt.india]

Overplanning now. After being blamed for not proactive, Dhoni has now become ultra proactive. They are not keeping things simple. This is the basics of cricket. I cant blame bowlers when we see captain implying same failed strategy time and time again. Batsmen wont commit suicide like england did. Bouncers don't get teams out specially not the Australians. Only way to get wickets is hitting the good length area consistently. Desperate measures are applied when everything has failed. That strategy is too predictable. Batsmen are already ready for that.

[BlueBee]

We have bowlers who cant bowl with their brains. They don't follow the basic s of test cricket. They try too many things but the basics. They simply sucks!

[rkt.india]

True I am not a trundler fan. I Just stated a simple fact' date='that how bhuvi who neither have pace nor height, can get fair amount of success by just trusting his skill and using his brain. If only bowlers like yadav, aaron can show the same amount of application, they can be devastating. But ofcourse you need the backing of a good captain. But if the captain is brain-dead then what to do [/quote'] Basics of bowling are same whoever the bowler is whether BK or Aaron. You don't need to be genius to understand where to bowl. Look at Harris, doesn't do anything special, neither swings big. He just keeps the ball in good length area on 4th, 5th stump. No rocket science that needs an extra ordinary brain. Just needs lots of practice in the nets.

[Crookbond]

That's what Craig McDermott did to Australia - he just asked bowlers to bowl a fuller length. He just keeps on repeating it. Here's an article from October 15, 2012 on Siddle being helped by McDermott

"To his credit, for the next few weeks until we got through to the third Test when he was re-selected, he worked his tail off in the nets," McDermott said. "As a bowler it is easy to start fuller and bring it back, rather than bowl short and push yourself up. We had to get his mindset right to be bowling full, get him to be able to understand that we're going to set the field for this, which we did with all the bowlers as that series started.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/586627.html

[ZeroBlack]

I still think Warne will make a good coach for India, is is tactically spot on every time he says something. And he is a no nonsense he would be what India are looking for? The problem is not the batsmen, your batsmen have shown they can stand up, but it's the bowlers and lack of leadership. Your bowlers go to pieces far too easy and are mentally soft.

[AmreekanDesi]

the main difference b.w them and us is not the pace. its consistency and bowling in good areas. if you observe ryan harris and hazelwood, they are bowling good length and pitched up swinging away deliveries at a good pace but on a very consistent basis. in an over, they are on target 4/6 times. also their short pitched deliveries are right on the money. yadav is the only indian bowler who is about 3/6 times consistent in an over aaron, shami are very inconsistent. they bowl just 1 good ball/over another thing i noticed is that shami is huffing and puffing even after 2 balls in a over. I think he has a serious lack of stamina. Major Trundler Transformation Alert on this kid. i just dont know what to say about ishanth. he has stamina. but he consistently bowls just short of good length, just short of good pace and just a little to straight on the mid stump, when he needs to be outside the off because of his inswing. All these small mistakes make him a useless bowler But the biggest comedy is Ajit Agarkar finding faults with these bowlers lol

good post and lol at the dig at Agarkar. as someone mentioned dont worry in a ddecade Ishant will be doing the same