hhunaeh Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Two value systems that believe they are both absolute, unchanging and supreme and everything else is relative and has to bend down to them cannot peacefully co exist without one of them backing out and compromising, but most people in real life compromise all the time so you will not have a war, but extremists who believe in the absoluteness of their values will keep clashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guldozer Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 public display of religious affinity is not good for state' date=' religion should be private. It does not impinge into ones freedom unless it is forbidden totally.[/quote'] Who decides what is good and what isn't? And if religion should be private, then so should the cartoons on religion be private! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Who decides what is good and what isn't? And if religion should be private, then so should the cartoons on religion be private! Are you equating religion and cartoon ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Are you equating religion and cartoon ? You've been gone a long time...welcome back.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Are you equating religion and cartoon ? Long time :woot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 How do we know what were the core teaching and where they really a guess on most stuff or a way to control people or way to impose one's imagination. In any case they shouldn't be relevant today at all. It's always been is humans as I haven't really seen any evidence of God DC, I am as good a student of science as one can be. I agree that not everyone sees evidence of God. All I can say there is that evidence. Its our prerogative to find it or leave it. I wish I could say more than that. I am not supposed to preach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Who decides what is good and what isn't? That;s the idea, nobody should be allowed to decide that. That's the basis of freedom of expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guldozer Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Are you equating religion and cartoon ? I am equating religion and cartoons on religion. If you can't openly wear turbans, hijabs then you also don't have the right to mock them in the open. But that's not the case unfortunately. If religion is a private matter then there would should be no cartoons on it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guldozer Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 That;s the idea' date=' nobody should be allowed to decide that. That's the basis of freedom of expression.[/quote'] So you agree that there should not be a ban on the Hijab etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 m7xwhVQmGq0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I am equating religion and cartoons on religion. If you can't openly wear turbans' date=' hijabs then you also don't have the right to mock them in the open. But that's not the case unfortunately. If religion is a private matter then there would should be no cartoons on it either.[/quote'] Firstly,it is France and it is their rules. If one doesn't like it, then they can leave. Also, as cartoonist I can lampoon anything happening in the world as long as it in compliance with the law. Were they in compliance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guldozer Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Firstly,it is France and it is their rules. If one doesn't like it, then they can leave. Also, as cartoonist I can lampoon anything happening in the world as long as it in compliance with the law. Were they in compliance ? All I can see at the moment is hypocrisy. I don't see how wearing a Turban or Hijab is not in compliance with law either. Where is the freedom of speech now? And please don't say it is France and it is their rules. As if you wouldn't criticise Saudi Arabia for it's treatment / rules for other religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I am equating religion and cartoons on religion. If you can't openly wear turbans' date=' hijabs then you also don't have the right to mock them in the open. But that's not the case unfortunately. If religion is a private matter then there would should be no cartoons on it either.[/quote'] I would agree with your line of thought if it were a private matter. My limited tourist experience in Paris and around tells me otherwise. Islam in Paris is an assertive*, in your face, faith. Not that there is anything wrong in that. But when you clamour to be in the public eye, there is bound to be criticism. As simple as that. No matter how tasteless/ non humourous the cartoons maybe, the killing is an unforgivable crime. Islam's street rep (or whatever is left of it) takes a bigger hit because of the killings than the cartoons. We should just leave it to Allah to punish the cartoonists, as (and if) he deems fit. I really can't recollect any specific verses where Allah delegates the punishment of cartoonists to humans. (*) By assertive I mean as the opposite of a person who is comfortably/securely Muslim. Not necessarily in an aggressive manner. PS: Welcome back Ravish. Great to have you back.:hatsoff: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 This is clash of Civilization. My feeling is there will a backlash in Europe. Hope superior an progressive Civilization wins. Progressive or not, I don't know. But there is only one civilization in this clash. More a clash of civilization and misguided uncivilized barbarians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I am equating religion and cartoons on religion. If you can't openly wear turbans' date=' hijabs then you also don't have the right to mock them in the open. But that's not the case unfortunately. If religion is a private matter then there would should be no cartoons on it either.[/quote'] A cartoon is not the same as clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Do you think Islam will ever allow or has already allowed its fundamental beliefs be questioned and debated and revised by muslims? Why is it so afraid of apostacy ? Why is Quoran the only message and why cant it be revised and made better? Unless this happens the future is bleak. Honestly, I don't know the answers to any of these questions. Or maybe I'm just too much of a coward to answer the questions. But why do I always get such a difficult question paper? Can I get an easier question paper? Can I have multiple choice options to choose from. Please. Pretty Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Thanks guys. I guess I was banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 All I can see at the moment is hypocrisy. I don't see how wearing a Turban or Hijab is not in compliance with law either. Where is the freedom of speech now? And please don't say it is France and it is their rules. As if you wouldn't criticise Saudi Arabia for it's treatment / rules for other religions. Yes, I ll criticize Saudi and believe me as much as I abhor medieval practices, I am critical of decisions by France. But if I choose to move to France, I ll be following their rules even if I don't like them. Btw, you are confusing two things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I would agree with your line of thought if it were a private matter. My limited tourist experience in Paris and around tells me otherwise. Islam in Paris is an assertive*, in your face, faith. Not that there is anything wrong in that. But when you clamour to be in the public eye, there is bound to be criticism. As simple as that. No matter how tasteless/ non humourous the cartoons maybe, the killing is an unforgivable crime. Islam's street rep (or whatever is left of it) takes a bigger hit because of the killings than the cartoons. We should just leave it to Allah to punish the cartoonists, as (and if) he deems fit. I really can't recollect any specific verses where Allah delegates the punishment of cartoonists to humans. (*) By assertive I mean as the opposite of a person who is comfortably/securely Muslim. Not necessarily in an aggressive manner. PS: Welcome back Ravish. Great to have you back.:hatsoff: Question is do they trust in Allah or not. Because if they did, they wouldn't take the whole community to this level. If Allah is almighty then why worry about anything. Once they figure it out, they will calm down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhunaeh Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 From what i read the way france has evolved has made it distrust expressions of religious symbols in public but allow great degree of freedom when it comes to critiquing and mocking religion. These are the values the french hold dear. That's what they are trying to defend. Arguing on semantics of freedom of expression serves no purpose, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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