Kalia_Test Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Having seen the 3 matches so far in Aus, a few things are clear - These are not 350 or even 300 score pitches. 280-290 is usually a winning score. - As acknowledged by Dhoni, lack of hitters at the back end is confusing people like Dhoni and Raina - Our top order batsmen are trying to go for outrageous shots ( even today Rahane, Raina and Kohli got out trying unnecessary/outrageous shots. - Given nature of pitches, you will get peaches like what Dhawan got - We are struggling to bat out 50 overs. I believe that if India bats 50 overs, we will get 270 - 300 but how? I think we need a change in strategy and this can be arrived by working backwards. Who are our hitters - Raina, Dhoni, Binny and Jadeja. These 4 batters should NOT come before 35th over. All 4 of them together will need to face 90-100 balls at max ( as they WILL NOT survive more than that ). The target should be 100 runs from them. Again, working backwards - it means that Rohit, Dhawan,Rahane and Kohli need to bat 35 overs for 170-180 runs i.e RR of ~ 5> No need of any extravagant shots,etc. I would even think of sending Bhuvi/Ashwin ( if they are in 11 ) ahead of our hitters before over 35 as they are not capable of big hits but can be useful if they are asked to just try take singles. In short, use resources wisely knowing what is the strength of each player. Thoughts?
Kalia_Test Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 Another way of putting this is - send batsmen in depending on how many overs are left and not based on how many wickets are down ( unless forced to ). If Dhoni/Binny/Raina/jadeja are best when 10-15 overs are left, make use of others to fill the other overs so that we get SOMETHING in those overs. Right now, we are messing it up. If India loses 3rd wicket in over 45, would we send in Rahane/Rayudu or Raina? Obviously Raina. This is an extension of the logic.
veer Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Think they are still adjusting to ODI format in Ozzie's... The reason I'm saying it because technically sound batsmen like Rahane n Kohli are playing too many pre meditated shots n getting out.. Coming down the pitch before ball is being released isn't going to work all the time. These are fast pitches. Kohli n Rahane need to play Hus natural game rather jumping in n out of crease. Rohit theother day played to his potential, on the merit of deliveries... Didn't go bang bang....
Cricketics Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 This batting order and the combination Rahane Rohit Kohli Raina Dhoni Rayudu for now but Jadeja when he is fit. Binny Ashwin Bhuvneshwar Shami Umesh I think this can be our best combination for now. Rohit-Rahane on top and if they can bat without losing a wicket in first 12 overs, it will give a great platform for Kohli-Raina-Dhoni combo. Rayudu and Binny our part of our tail with Ashwin and Bhuvi, so our lower batting order and tail is looking stronger. However, we can play Jadeja for Rayudu and it will give us extra spin option. Bowling, I think we have covered most of the areas here. This is our best combination for the world cup squad. In a disastrous situation like we had yesterday where we got 5 down early, Binny came in handy for us and if only we had someone like Ashwin who could have delivered with the bat later, we could have crossed 220+ This line up still gives us all there of our top pacers fro the squad and also gives us extra option of Ashwing, Binny and Raina.
putrevus Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I would play Axar in every match at least in this series, Ashwin will never be effective and he is not that great with bat to overcome all his deficiencies on the field, youngsters need to be backed not kicked out after couple of failures. Dhawan needs to be backed here, once he fires he wins matches unlike Rahane in odis.There are only three batsmen (Kohli,Dhawan and Nohit on very rare occasions) in this squad who when they fire they can win the match by themselves. Raina and Dhoni will score some fifties but they bat too low.Unless top order fires, what they do with bat becomes irrelevant, Binny is not good enough with either bat or ball to be in the playing eleven.
Cricketics Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Raina and Dhoni will score some fifties but they bat too low.Unless top order fires, what they do with bat becomes irrelevant, Binny is not good enough with either bat or ball to be in the playing eleven. I agree with this part and hence I want Raina at 4 instead of coming late. Kohli has to bat at 3 and Raina or even Dhoni can follow him next. We have to realize this. Raina and Dhoni are as good as Kohli in odi's currently if not better. Kohli just has special ability to play long innings, but Raina can be equally lethal and Dhoni too. They have to play most of the overs. Kohli-Raina-Dhoni - If they bat at least 35 overs between them, we are in good shape.
Sidhoni Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Project Raina again? I think he is better off at 5/6. Rahane Rohit Kohli Rayudu Dhoni Raina Binny Axar Bhuvi Shami Yadav
Lord Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Project Raina again? I think he is better off at 5/6. Rahane Rohit Kohli Rayudu Dhoni Raina Binny Axar Bhuvi Shami Yadav Agree with that lineup except I'd have Dhawan in middle order than Rayudu.
Cricketics Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 ^Raina is too low for my liking. You guys realize how much Raina has scored runs for us in the recent history? Raina has been one of our best bats and has consistently scored runs. And this is not India where he can execute his power hitting in the last 6 overs righta way. If he gets to bat earlly around 30th over or before, he will have enough time to grind out and get settled for a finish. Something he has done in the past even in tough Odi conditions when he has gotten to bat early. We have to make sure our best players are batting the most. and our best bowlers our bowling most overs.
veer Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Rahane Rohit Kohli Raina Dhoni Rayudu for now but Jadeja when he is fit. Binny Ashwin Bhuvneshwar Shami Umesh I think this can be our best combination for now. Rohit-Rahane on top and if they can bat without losing a wicket in first 12 overs, it will give a great platform for Kohli-Raina-Dhoni combo. Rayudu and Binny our part of our tail with Ashwin and Bhuvi, so our lower batting order and tail is looking stronger. However, we can play Jadeja for Rayudu and it will give us extra spin option. Bowling, I think we have covered most of the areas here. This is our best combination for the world cup squad. In a disastrous situation like we had yesterday where we got 5 down early, Binny came in handy for us and if only we had someone like Ashwin who could have delivered with the bat later, we could have crossed 220+ This line up still gives us all there of our top pacers fro the squad and also gives us extra option of Ashwing, Binny and Raina. Nope.. Raina and Dhoni at 4 and 5 are too early.. if Dhoni comes at over 30, he would just go with tuk tuk.. Need one more stroke player before Dhoni and we dont have any in 15. Wish Yuvi was in the mix..
Cricketics Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Need one more stroke player before Dhoni and we dont have any in 15. . That is why we have Raina in the squad. We have to trust him. He has delivered for us in the past. He can play strokes and keep the run rate up all the time. That's all we need. He doesn't bat with any pressure. We have to realize what we are missing by playing Raina so low at times. He was supposed to be our no. 3 earlier when Kohli made that his own spot.
Lord Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 ^Raina is too low for my liking. You guys realize how much Raina has scored runs for us in the recent history? Raina has been one of our best bats and has consistently scored runs. And this is not India where he can execute his power hitting in the last 6 overs righta way. If he gets to bat earlly around 30th over or before, he will have enough time to grind out and get settled for a finish. Something he has done in the past even in tough Odi conditions when he has gotten to bat early. We have to make sure our best players are batting the most. and our best bowlers our bowling most overs. Raina is a finisher,his role is to bat in last 10-15 overs.But yeah it can be changed according to the situation.After 1st wicket,one of Kohli,Dhoni,Raina should always be there
Kalia_Test Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 Mods - Can you please merge my thread http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=321498 with this as they are sort of same discussion?
veer Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 That is why we have Raina in the squad. We have to trust him. He has delivered for us in the past. He can play strokes and keep the run rate up all the time. That's all we need. He doesn't bat with any pressure. We have to realize what we are missing by playing Raina so low at times. He was supposed to be our no. 3 earlier when Kohli made that his own spot. I dont mind Raina at 4.. but we need one more player at 5 before Dhoni can come in... we have no choice but to give Dhawan a chance at that position.. Rayudu can also click but he'll need to adjust his game.
Cricketics Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Mods - Can you please merge my thread http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=321498 with this as they are sort of same discussion? Done. Thanks
putrevus Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I agree with this part and hence I want Raina at 4 instead of coming late. Kohli has to bat at 3 and Raina or even Dhoni can follow him next. We have to realize this. Raina and Dhoni are as good as Kohli in odi's currently if not better. Kohli just has special ability to play long innings, but Raina can be equally lethal and Dhoni too. They have to play most of the overs. Kohli-Raina-Dhoni - If they bat at least 35 overs between them, we are in good shape. I agree Kohli has to bat at no3, I am afraid he is developing a bad habit of failing when batting first. Raina unless he can cope with bounce will be sitting duck at no4 , so I would let Dhoni bat at no4 and ask him to hold one end in case early wickets fall which might be very often. Raina should be the finisher for this team. It is such a poorly constructed team, this might be weakest team of all the eight major test nations.It is neither strong in batting nor bowling. If we compare this team to 2011 team where they had match winners with bat from 1 to 7 and That is the reason why I want Dhawan to be backed here.
Cricketics Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I dont mind Raina at 4.. but we need one more player at 5 before Dhoni can come in... we have no choice but to give Dhawan a chance at that position.. Rayudu can also click but he'll need to adjust his game. Why though? Dhoni is a different batsman all together in odis. Sending someone before him means using less of the class of Dhoni. Dhoni has his own weird uniquestyle of play where he keeps rotating strikes and keeps the run rate up. We actually should utilize him as early as possible too.ta We need to forget Dhoni's swashbuckling hitting for a while and remind ourselves how many times he has dug us out from a poor situation in odi's where we were reduced to low score early in the innings and he stood hard on the wicket to combat the pressure and eventually play it out till the end Again, the whole idea should be to have Kohli-Raina-Dhoni bat most of the overs. This is how I look into this. I personally don't want anyone to disturb that combination. It is for me the best combination of any batting line up in the whole world for a 50 over forat right now. My $0.02.
Lord Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I agree Kohli has to bat at no3, I am afraid he is developing a bad habit of failing when batting first. Raina unless he can cope with bounce will be sitting duck at no4 , so I would let Dhoni bat at no4 and ask him to hold one end in case early wickets fall which might be very often. Raina should be the finisher for this team. It is such a poorly constructed team, this might be weakest team of all the eight major test nations.It is neither strong in batting nor bowling. If we compare this team to 2011 team where they had match winners with bat from 1 to 7 and That is the reason why I want Dhawan to be backed here. That was an ATG team but this team would also do well in India
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