rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Irfan was faster in those days he was 130-140ks .B.k is a defensive bowler looking to contain he should have more deliveries be more at 4-5 mt mark to get swing .Personally i feel if we have look for guys who can pick wickets at the top.Even if we keeps runs down its not going to work when batsman get settled.Aaron was a gamble india should have taken .Ishant has to play and open the bowling 4-5 meter mark is half volley and will be dispatched for boundaries. We conceded a lot of runs in that region in England. 6 meter mark is ideal for a reason.
CG Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 4-5 meter mark is half volley and will be dispatched for boundaries. We conceded a lot of runs in that region in England. 6 meter mark is ideal for a reason. Thats the sucker ball after good length balls in a over .You take the risk its what starc does at pace.Umesh does and gets driven for four,problem with umesh is he strays leg outside off after few good balls.
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Remove minnows stats and Irfan is as bad as any. You are exaggerating everything about him. If those guys were that good they would not have gone out of the team in first place and would have had better stats. Regarding swing, low pace is always ideal for swing. The quicker you are, the less swing you will get. Both Pathan and BK have had ideal pace for swing but swing depends on various factors. Some balls swing, some don't. One Kookaburra ball might swing more than other one. Same for other type of balls. It is not as simple. Another example Sydney test, India's Ist innings, first new ball didnt swing, but suddenly 2nd new ball started swinging. In England 2010 batch duke balls swung more. Depends on who bowls the ball. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rn864oNQ8Y]Alan Donald destroying Englismen - YouTube[/ame]
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Rkt. you are blaming pitch, condition etc for not producing swing. It is more an excuse to defend these talentless hacks.
CG Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Depends on who bowls the ball. There are guys who due to release and action get the ball to swing in late ,sreesanth used to do that then you have guys like pk,hilfy who do it from the hand.generally with pace you get late swing like starc
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 There are guys who due to release and action get the ball to swing in late ' date='sreesanth used to do that then you have guys like pk,hilfy who do it from the hand.generally with pace you get late swing like starc[/quote'] That is my point. RKt puts the whole swing factor on conditions not the bowler. It is like given the condition anyone can swing , if conditions doesn't suit nobody can swing. it is not that black and white. Different bowlers have different ability to swing the ball. Current lot is one of the poorest swing bowling combination we have ever had. Only guy who can swing is so off color.
CG Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 That is my point. RKt puts the whole swing factor on conditions not the bowler. It is like given the condition anyone can swing ' date=' if conditions doesn't suit nobody can swing. it is not that black and white. Different bowlers have different ability to swing the ball. Current lot is one of the poorest swing bowling combination we have ever had. Only guy who can swing is so off color.[/quote'] Lets look at our bowlers- Shami-Is more of a seam bolwer Ishant-Again a seam bowler who used to have great inswing in his early days B.k-Specialist swing bowler who bowls too short in odis looking to contain Yadav-Can swing it both ways but does not get his line right.
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Rkt. you are blaming pitch' date=' condition etc for not producing swing. It is more an excuse to defend these talentless hacks.[/quote'] BK, Umesh both swing the ball but swing depends on conditions and various factors. A bowler can only present a good seam which they both do. Swing is not magic or mantra that you utter and ball will swing. They have talent that is why they are in the team and not others. Why didn't same Starc swing the ball in India and in test series if he could swing the ball everywhere? I will have to question your cricketing acumen. You showed a video of Pathan swing the ball, I can show videos of BK and Umesh swinging the ball too. I can show video of Starc not swinging the ball and being thrashed. Swing is still an undiscovered science how it exactly happens. So, questioning their talent just because they didn't swing the ball and one bowl swung is too harsh because no one can really predict swing.
CG Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Earlier atleast every tour we had a pace bowling hope like sreesanth,yadav,r.p singh whats sad is now we do not even have that shami ,yadav have been extremly disappointing.India should have gambled with aaron.this attack will not win the wc.
CG Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 BK, Umesh both swing the ball but swing depends on conditions and various factors. A bowler can only present a good seam which they both do. Swing is not magic or mantra that you utter and ball will swing. They have talent that is why they are in the team and not others. Why didn't same Starc swing the ball in India and in test series if he could swing the ball everywhere? I will have to question your cricketing acumen. You showed a video of Pathan swing the ball, I can show videos of BK and Umesh swinging the ball too. I can show video of Starc not swinging the ball and being thrashed. Swing is still an undiscovered science how it exactly happens. So, questioning their talent just because they didn't swing the ball and one bowl swung is too harsh because no one can really predict swing. Basically we bowled poorly.
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Depends on who bowls the ball. Looks like overcast conditions here. What did I say? He is not swinging it big like PK or BK but enough to beat the bat and at that pace that is enough. 125-130K is the pace, you get most amount of swing. Should I saw you Umesh Yadav destroying Australia in 2012?
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 That is my point. RKt puts the whole swing factor on conditions not the bowler. It is like given the condition anyone can swing ' date=' if conditions doesn't suit nobody can swing. it is not that black and white. Different bowlers have different ability to swing the ball. Current lot is one of the poorest swing bowling combination we have ever had. Only guy who can swing is so off color.[/quote'] arey bhai when did I say it does not depend on bowler. Yes, it depends, but bowler can only present a good seam and wrist which BK and Umesh both have. After that ball will swing or not is not in bowlers hand. I also want to say the same that it is not as black and white as you think. It is not like just good seam and wrist position will swing the ball for you. You need other factors which are not in bowlers hand to got your way too. Good and wist position are prerequisite. Also loose and tight grip also makes difference. Loose grip helps swing and most Indian bowlers bowl with loose grip. Tight grip makes you hit the deck hard. Loose grip makes you swing the ball.
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 arey bhai when did I say it does not depend on bowler. Yes' date=' it depends, but bowler can only present a good seam and wrist which BK and Umesh both have. After that ball will swing or not is not in bowlers hand. I also want to say the same that it is not as black and white as you think. It is not like just good seam and wrist position will swing the ball for you. You need other factors which are not in bowlers hand to got your way too. Good and wist position are prerequisite. Also loose and tight grip also makes difference. Loose grip helps swing and most Indian bowlers bowl with loose grip. Tight grip makes you hit the deck hard. Loose grip makes you swing the ball.[/quote'] Waqar is slightly shorter than Umesh. But he did swing the ball with accuracy at decent pace. Granted he probably used to soda bottle cap. Even with that i don't think someone like Umesh can't swing with such accuracy. He lacks control. Something he should have been able to master by now.
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Waqar is slightly shorter than Umesh. But he did swing the ball with accuracy at decent pace. Granted he probably used to soda bottle cap. Even with that i don't think someone like Umesh can't swing with such accuracy. He lacks control. Something he should have been able to master by now. Waqar never swung the new ball in his early career. He was dependent on reverse swing and pace only. He only learnt to swing the ball after he lost the pace in late 90s.
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 0.1 Kumar to Finch, no run, swings it in a little bit on length outside off, left alone 0.4 Kumar to Finch, 1 wide, mixes it up with an outswinger this time, but it's well outside off for a wide 0.4 Kumar to Finch, 1 run, length delivery swinging away a bit, pushed with a thickish edge down to third man for one This was the first over of BK against Aus. He did swing the ball, but certainly lack of pace hurt him.
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Waqar never swung the new ball in his early career. He was dependent on reverse swing and pace only. He only learnt to swing the ball after he lost the pace in late 90s. For everything we can make an exception and sweep the inadequacies of our bowlers under carpet. India's quest for genuine quicks is welcoming. All we have is raw pace to work with. Everything else is missing in varying degrees. Swing, control, intelligence, stamina. India has made 4 overseas tour on the trot. Best fast bowler of all is Ishant sharma and Bhuvaneswar That says a lot about our others.
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 This was the first over of BK against Aus. He did swing the ball' date=' but certainly lack of pace hurt him.[/quote'] There is no zip in his deliveries like we saw in India against Pakistan
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 For everything we can make an exception and sweep the inadequacies of our bowlers under carpet. India's quest for genuine quicks is welcoming. All we have is raw pace to work with. Everything else is missing in varying degrees. Swing, control, intelligence, stamina. India has made 4 overseas tour on the trot. Best fast bowler of all is Ishant sharma and Bhuvaneswar That says a lot about our others. Not making any excuse. They have bowled poorly and there is nothing to not accept that, but comparison with those older Indian bowlers wont yield anything because every bowler is different and is not like they were greats. They had their days. These guys have had their days too. We need to admit we dont have good international level bowlers. Our bowlers can have good days but those are too less. Umesh bowled so well against Lanka at home, swung he ball too, now he cannot do the same. It is not ability but focus, lack of concentration. Also, BK would have been poor too if he had bowled more in Aus series. Umesh didnt play in those helpful England conditions. He did bowl some good and some horrendous spells in Australia but those good spells could yield more wickets in England than in Aus. Shami is nowhere. He right now neither swings the ball nor has pace or accuracy. He was pathetic in England and continued to be pathetic in Aus. He needs to be far more consistent at that pace. I wont play him in test cricket overseas at all, atm.
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 There is no zip in his deliveries like we saw in India against Pakistan Another thing. Those were Paki batsmen, you need a bit more pace or bounce to trouble Aussie batsman. There is a reason even Shaun Pollock was very average in Australia in test cricket, lack of pace.
Temujin Khaghan Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 People think the problem with Indian fast bowlers is lack of pace? Hell no. The biggest problem with them is the lack of proper use of length. Bowlers like Shami, Ishant, Umesh, Aaron bowl one ball at good length around off stump and the next one for sure will be an over pitch leg side half volley. This lack of proper length and line is the reason they never able to extract pressure. Bhuvi was an exception but he seems to be losing his mojo as well. If you can't bowl 2 balls at one length, you will never cause trouble dosen't matter how quick you are. If you are 135kph bowler and play at batsman's patience by regularly bowling at good length outside off, batsman is bound to make mistake. Who ever is our bowling coach, please see this video and teach something to our bowler about how to use length. This is called length bowling (All at Trundler's pace) - Please learn PKpThWWgoM8 Monga: There is this theory that the success of Glenn McGrath, where he stuck to bowling short of a length just outside off, might have had an impact on future generations. Because pace is not easy. And here is a guy who has shown them an alternative route. Akram: McGrath was 6ft 6in. He was tall, he had bounce. He was strong and clever. Line and length on Indian and Pakistani wickets, you are asking for trouble. Holding: You have to remember McGrath played a lot of cricket in Australia and England. Those are about the only places where you will succeed with just line and length.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now