International Politics Thread

[Sachin=GOD]

British National Party (BNP) polled 563,743 votes in 2010. Polled 1,667 votes in 2015. Ouch!!

[G_B_]

UKIP took their votes.... They have been riddled with infighting.

[someone]

Congress Party could learn a thing from the results today. The opposition leaders accepted defeat, took blame for it and resigned. Will Gandhis be ever questioned or resign on their own? From my limited knowledge, I think conservatives in better than labour for India. Given some pro-Pakistan statements by various Labour key leaders. Am I correct to say?

[Sachin=GOD]

UKIP took their votes.... They have been riddled with infighting.

So what's next for Labor? Unless they win big in Scotland, something which doesn't look likely in the near future, it would be really difficult for them to win nationally, right?

[sticky wicket]

British National Party (BNP) polled 563,743 votes in 2010. Polled 1,667 votes in 2015. Ouch!!

well the other extreme far right party...UKip took 4,000,000 votes and are third biggest party by vote share! that's nearly 1 in 10 UK voter voted for this extreme right wing party...scary stuff the other day i read one of their candidate responding to a question if he would accept a first Asian as prime minister...and he replied something like "I will put a bullet in whoever that Asian person is before he becomes a PM of UK" but seems right wing governments winning elections all across Northern Europe, I think Finland recently elected a right wing government too...France might be heading that way

[Sachin=GOD]

well the other extreme far right party...UKip took 4,000,000 votes and are third biggest party by vote share! that's nearly 1 in 10 UK voter voted for this extreme right wing party...scary stuff the other day i read one of their candidate responding to a question if he would accept a first Asian as prime minister...and he replied something like "I will put a bullet in whoever that Asian person is before he becomes a PM of UK" but seems right wing governments winning elections all across Northern Europe, I think Finland recently elected a right wing government too...France might be heading that way

Far Right (UKIP, French National Front etc) or Far Left (Syrzia in Greece, Podemos in Spain etc) seem to be growing really fast. Not good for the already troubled Europe.

[G_B_]

Congress Party could learn a thing from the results today. The opposition leaders accepted defeat, took blame for it and resigned. Will Gandhis be ever questioned or resign on their own? From my limited knowledge, I think conservatives in better than labour for India. Given some pro-Pakistan statements by various Labour key leaders. Am I correct to say?

yes you are. Though Miliband is a jew or a lapsed jew. So not sure if he would be that hard on the India on issues such as Kashmir etc. Cameron is clearly pro Indian. From a business POV and also cause a lot of Conservative donners are from the Indian community. Even Cameron's supposed successor Boris Johnson is pro India.

[G_B_]

firstly let me stop you there. UKIP is not the far right. They put forward many asian and black candidates in winnable seats. I have never seen the national front in france do that. They are to the right of the conservative party and may have a racist fringe. But its not fair to compare them to the BNP.

[jalebi_bhai]

well the other extreme far right party...UKip took 4,000,000 votes and are third biggest party by vote share! that's nearly 1 in 10 UK voter voted for this extreme right wing party...scary stuff the other day i read one of their candidate responding to a question if he would accept a first Asian as prime minister...and he replied something like "I will put a bullet in whoever that Asian person is before he becomes a PM of UK" but seems right wing governments winning elections all across Northern Europe, I think Finland recently elected a right wing government too...France might be heading that way

A common thing with Left parties all over the world is playing vote bank politics in favor of immigrants (illegal/legal) and minorities. I believe last year Obama made immigration reforms that made it very easy for immigrants and their families to get US citizenship. Ditto with Trinamool and Bangladeshi immigrants in WB (no reforms were passed, but the basic principle). It's quid pro quo really. The Libs get a secure vote bank as well as a section of the population that are willing to work at minimum wage and do the menial work. Immigrants are just happy to be there to make a living. Local people world over will eventually see through that and call them out on it because they want employment for themselves; and they are right (pun not intended).

[G_B_]

So what's next for Labor? Unless they win big in Scotland' date=' something which doesn't look likely in the near future, it would be really difficult for them to win nationally, right?[/quote'] Andy Burnham is seen as the next leader. He is a much better personality than Ed. With Ed you just did not feel confident. You need to look at the history of labour. Labour made a total mess of the economy in 1974 -1979 (also called the winter of discontent). Callaghan was voted out and Thatcher came in. For the next 3 elections 83, 87 92 Labour were defeated under candidates seen as solidly left wing (Michael Foot and Kinnock). These two were from the ideological left. Then new labour (they brought in the red rose symbol) happened. New Labour was basically a centre left party. More independent of the unions and more business friendly. They had a highly charismatic leader in Blair. Say what you may about him. The man built a massive political machinery. The truth is if Blair v Cameron happened Blair would still win. Thats how capable his team was despite some really toxic wars in Iraq he managed to hold on with ease. There was only one thing Blair cared about. Winning. He was not ideological. He was just born and raised in a solidly labour area so saw it as a ladder to prosperity and power. He actually comes from a well to do family. If this guy was born in conservative area he would be a conservative. This combined with the Conservatives messing up on the economy led to Labour coming to power in 1997 in a landslide. Obviously labour again messed up on the economy in 2010 and paid the price. Now coming back to new labour. It was to be spearheaded by John Smith. Blair Brown and Mandelson were tier 2 leader waiting under the wings. Smith died suddenly and Mandelson (who is gay) voted in favour of Blair over Brown. From 1997 to 2015 the Labour party has been split into two factions. Blair and Brown. Blairtes are more centre left. Brownites are more solid left. Ed milliband was in the Brown camp. David Milliband who he defeated to become the party leader was in the Blair camp. Ed was backed by the unions. To answer your question, Labour needs a Blairite. Or somebody is who is charismatic in todays world of social media and centre left. They have tried two solidly left candidates in Brown and Ed and its not worked out. The risks for the Labour party are simple. They need to move to the centre left while at the same time ensure that they manage to retain the funding of the unions and keep their chances in a politically left wing scotland intact. Its going to be a tightrope but they have to win the battle in England. For that they need to move to the political centre.

[Sachin=GOD]

Andy Burnham is seen as the next leader. He is a much better personality than Ed. With Ed you just did not feel confident. You need to look at the history of labour. Labour made a total mess of the economy in 1974 -1979 (also called the winter of discontent). Callaghan was voted out and Thatcher came in. For the next 3 elections 83, 87 92 Labour were defeated under candidates seen as solidly left wing (Michael Foot and Kinnock). These two were from the ideological left. Then new labour (they brought in the red rose symbol) happened. New Labour was basically a centre left party. More independent of the unions and more business friendly. They had a highly charismatic leader in Blair. Say what you may about him. The man built a massive political machinery. The truth is if Blair v Cameron happened Blair would still win. Thats how capable his team was despite some really toxic wars in Iraq he managed to hold on with ease. There was only one thing Blair cared about. Winning. He was not ideological. He was just born and raised in a solidly labour area so saw it as a ladder to prosperity and power. He actually comes from a well to do family. If this guy was born in conservative area he would be a conservative. This combined with the Conservatives messing up on the economy led to Labour coming to power in 1997 in a landslide. Obviously labour again messed up on the economy in 2010 and paid the price. Now coming back to new labour. It was to be spearheaded by John Smith. Blair Brown and Mandelson were tier 2 leader waiting under the wings. Smith died suddenly and Mandelson (who is gay) voted in favour of Blair over Brown. From 1997 to 2015 the Labour party has been split into two factions. Blair and Brown. Blairtes are more centre left. Brownites are more solid left. Ed milliband was in the Brown camp. David Milliband who he defeated to become the party leader was in the Blair camp. Ed was backed by the unions. To answer your question, Labour needs a Blairite. Or somebody is who is charismatic in todays world of social media and centre left. They have tried two solidly left candidates in Brown and Ed and its not worked out. The risks for the Labour party are simple. They need to move to the centre left while at the same time ensure that they manage to retain the funding of the unions and keep their chances in a politically left wing scotland intact. Its going to be a tightrope but they have to win the battle in England. For that they need to move to the political centre.

Thanks. Really informative post. Your knowledge of politics, whether Indian or international, is staggering.

[Precambrian]

Andy Burnham is seen as the next leader. He is a much better personality than Ed. With Ed you just did not feel confident. You need to look at the history of labour. Labour made a total mess of the economy in 1974 -1979 (also called the winter of discontent). Callaghan was voted out and Thatcher came in. For the next 3 elections 83, 87 92 Labour were defeated under candidates seen as solidly left wing (Michael Foot and Kinnock). These two were from the ideological left. Then new labour (they brought in the red rose symbol) happened. New Labour was basically a centre left party. More independent of the unions and more business friendly. They had a highly charismatic leader in Blair. Say what you may about him. The man built a massive political machinery. The truth is if Blair v Cameron happened Blair would still win. Thats how capable his team was despite some really toxic wars in Iraq he managed to hold on with ease. There was only one thing Blair cared about. Winning. He was not ideological. He was just born and raised in a solidly labour area so saw it as a ladder to prosperity and power. He actually comes from a well to do family. If this guy was born in conservative area he would be a conservative. This combined with the Conservatives messing up on the economy led to Labour coming to power in 1997 in a landslide. Obviously labour again messed up on the economy in 2010 and paid the price. Now coming back to new labour. It was to be spearheaded by John Smith. Blair Brown and Mandelson were tier 2 leader waiting under the wings. Smith died suddenly and Mandelson (who is gay) voted in favour of Blair over Brown. From 1997 to 2015 the Labour party has been split into two factions. Blair and Brown. Blairtes are more centre left. Brownites are more solid left. Ed milliband was in the Brown camp. David Milliband who he defeated to become the party leader was in the Blair camp. Ed was backed by the unions. To answer your question, Labour needs a Blairite. Or somebody is who is charismatic in todays world of social media and centre left. They have tried two solidly left candidates in Brown and Ed and its not worked out. The risks for the Labour party are simple. They need to move to the centre left while at the same time ensure that they manage to retain the funding of the unions and keep their chances in a politically left wing scotland intact. Its going to be a tightrope but they have to win the battle in England. For that they need to move to the political centre.

:hatsoff::hatsoff::nice::nice: Brilliant summation. You should be writing columns.

[Number]

Protest against the new govt. Can escalate to riot like situation. Looks like Indians can handle it better. :)

[Sachin=GOD]

Protest against the new govt. Can escalate to riot like situation. Looks like Indians can handle it better. :)

Haha....we are the more mature democracy it seems.

[BeautifulGame]

Not surprising I suppose considering most of the unions support labour I reading a Liverpool forum which s mostly labour and most were suggesting something similar when the election results were coming in Most labour voters are scared of Conservatives having a full majority IMO.At least last time they Lib Dem to keep check on it

[G_B_]

More than labour supporters its regions such as liverpool and manchester (its like the detriot of UK but not as bad) depend on government spending for prosperity. If the government cuts benefits (they have planned to cut £12 billion) that means the cities economy takes a major hit. It affects even those who are well off. Suppose you such a shop which sells sweets. A big % of your clients are on benefits from the state (pensioners etc etc disabled) and their benefit is cut. The first thing they are going to cut back on is sweets. The entire city takes a major hit. Among the regions, London (within london too there are major disparities) South east, south west and east are net earners. Midlands are neutral. North East North West Scotland Wales Northern Ireland are net receivers. It can also be divided into inner city which are labour. Rural areas which are conservative. The suburban areas usually decide who forms government. Being populated by the middle classes they usually vote for the party occupying the centre position. Its the suburban areas which Blair always won. I think the economy will pick up and the UK is on the right track compared to many other countries in the EU. David Cameron is also not from the Thaterchite wing of the Conservatives. He is more old money (his ancestors are nobility) and is what is described as an one nation conservative. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-nation_conservatism If you had a Thatcherite in power then yes cut would quickly come. But thats not Cameron. Thatcher also had a thumping majority. This guy has a majority of 10. Tory backbenchers are notoriously difficult to hold down and are independent minded. More than the cuts the major fault lines are going to be on Europe. Cameron has said he wants to do a new deal with Merkel. If he does not satisfy his backbenchers then we are headed for a EU referendum for certain. Scotland and Europe is going to define Cameron's legacy.

[G_B_]

Re the protests it was disgusting. These people defaced WW2 memorials wtf has that got to do with who is in power? I have to agree that Indians handled it much better than some in the left in the UK. The silent majority has spoken. These people need to suck it up.

[BeautifulGame]

More than labour supporters its regions such as liverpool and manchester (its like the detriot of UK but not as bad) depend on government spending for prosperity. If the government cuts benefits (they have planned to cut £12 billion) that means the cities economy takes a major hit. It affects even those who are well off. Suppose you such a shop which sells sweets. A big % of your clients are on benefits from the state (pensioners etc etc disabled) and their benefit is cut. The first thing they are going to cut back on is sweets. The entire city takes a major hit. Among the regions, London (within london too there are major disparities) South east, south west and east are net earners. Midlands are neutral. North East North West Scotland Wales Northern Ireland are net receivers. It can also be divided into inner city which are labour. Rural areas which are conservative. The suburban areas usually decide who forms government. Being populated by the middle classes they usually vote for the party occupying the centre position. Its the suburban areas which Blair always won. I think the economy will pick up and the UK is on the right track compared to many other countries in the EU. David Cameron is also not from the Thaterchite wing of the Conservatives. He is more old money (his ancestors are nobility) and is what is described as an one nation conservative. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-nation_conservatism If you had a Thatcherite in power then yes cut would quickly come. But thats not Cameron. Thatcher also had a thumping majority. This guy has a majority of 10. Tory backbenchers are notoriously difficult to hold down and are independent minded. More than the cuts the major fault lines are going to be on Europe. Cameron has said he wants to do a new deal with Merkel. If he does not satisfy his backbenchers then we are headed for a EU referendum for certain. Scotland and Europe is going to define Cameron's legacy.

Thanks for the info Also read that Cameroon isn't interested in completing the full term .So may be he doesn't want the Euro referendum to define his legacy and wants to quit before that . Also another doubt .Were the city Liverpool always labour or the Hillsborough tragedy and Thatcher era completely turned them towards labour .Becoz I saw even in this election Labour completely swept Merseyside

[G_B_]

Thanks for the info Also read that Cameroon isn't interested in completing the full term .So may be he doesn't want the Euro referendum to define his legacy and wants to quit before that . Also another doubt .Were the city Liverpool always labour or the Hillsborough tragedy and Thatcher era completely turned them towards labour .Becoz I saw even in this election Labour completely swept Merseyside

The referendum will happen in May 2017 if at all. It will be a simple in out referendum. Cameron is secretly pro Europe. But he wants more control on immigration and how much the UK pays into the Eu. So he wants a better deal. So he is more to the left of the conservative party. Those to the right and UKIP want to cut all ties. Cameron wants what Switzerland currently enjoys. Trade with Europe with non of the irritating stuff like immigration etc etc. He plans to quit in 2018 and Boris Johnson (the current mayor of London) and Thesera May (the current home secretary) and Osborn (the current chancellor) are seen as favourites as his replacements. Usually party leader elections happen in September (you will see new people being elected for Labour Lib dem and Ukip etc in September this year). So you can expect Cameron to quit in September 2018 and the new leader forming his/her own team. Cameron wants Osborn to succeed him as he is his best friend. But Boris Johnson has more grass root support atm. The labour movement was born in scotland. It was the movement started by the miners of Scotland and Yorkshire and the people who worked on the docks. Liverpool was known for its docks. Manchester used to produce the good (textiles) and Liverpool was the port which shipped them across the world. At that time docks were not mechanised so they employed thousands of people. Manchester United or Newton Heath FC was a club started by joiners who worked in industry. Liverpool FC /Everton were teams which were started and supported by the dock workers. To answer your question Liverpool has always been Labour. The lib dems had made inroads with the council etc and proclaimed themselves as the new left. With Liverpool and Manchester are two labour cities and the cradle of the labour movement along with Glasgow in Scotland. Even during the surges of Thatcher in 1979 and 1983 the city remained a solid majority of red labour. In labour surges it was all red. Historically, (post WW2) London - leans towards labour highly volatile. North east and west labour South west and east Conservative East Conservative Midlands split Wales Labour Scotland labour (now its the snp is another story) Northern Ireland their own regional parties based on protestant (mostly unionist) and catholic (republican or favour integration with ireland) The third party the lib dems are sort of all over the place. They dont really have a concentrated bases. Out of their 57 last election they had 10 in south west 6 in london 5 in wales 10 in south east 12 in scotland etc etc. So its a mixed bag which has cost them badly.

[Sachin=GOD]

^you have a doubt as to whether EU referendum will happen?