English cricket pundits/fans are big hypocrites

[Gollum]

Anybody who watched yesterday's match or followed the twitter feed would have observed how they were praising the English pitches for providing entertaining cricket. Same buggers hold so much contempt for matches in the subcontinent. SC pitches according to them are flat, lifeless and encourages boring cricket. They deride our legends like Sachin, Sehwag all the time because apparently our guys are FTBs. Believe me ODI pitches in India aren't as flat as they are claiming to be, pitches in Lanka(where 300 has never been chased down) and UAE aren't half as flat as the phattas we saw in CWC 2015, Eng,NZ,RSA (on a regular basis) etc. If Root/Butler/Morgan score 100s they are apparently great knocks but all 100s by Kohli, Dhawan, Rohit are nothing special because of the nature of the pitches. Remember how their pundits belittled when the 1st 4 double centurions in ODIs were all Indians. They cite examples of the India-Australia ODI series in 2013 but that was more of an exception rather than norm. Honestly speaking India and Australia bat at a different level in ODIs and Australia have generally done very well in ODI cricket here. So the high scores weren't all that surprising. RSA, Eng, NZ,etc have never scored big in India but we have clobbered them for high 300s, 400s regularly. All this tells us more about Indian batting rather than Indian pitches. I am singling out England here because they are the ones who whine the most. Have they forgotten the pitches on offer in CWC 2011, those were some of the best pitches ODI cricket has seen. I am all for balance between bat and ball and there is balance in Indian pitches. This isn't the only thing they whine about. Notice their double speak on IPL(this coming from someone who doesn't like IPL). When IPL first came out in the initial years they launched a campaign against it calling it corrupt, cheap entertainment with little cricket, threat to international cricket and what not. Year after year till as late as last year they would have seminars, lectures(eg Colin Cowdrey lecture) where they would invite like minded ex cricketers to badmouth India, IPL etc. So many documentaries were launched to discredit it, with the help of Lalit Modi they tried to sabotage our league and set up a parallel league in their country, Bumble,Aggers,Botham etc always spread lies about it on twitter and ridiculed it. Also the behavior of English cricket fans is very condescending, more in tune with the British Raj mentality of the goras than 21st century people. They lie about how our franchises always boycott their players(Flintoff,KP were the highest bids in 2nd edition but they opted out and put their franchises in trouble, Broad too was bought in one of the editions but opted out), cause harm to the careers of players who support IPL(KP saga), etc. Hales left his county team to be with his IPL team in the final stages, that shows that even English players want to play here but act indifferent. All the BS about IPL being a threat to the international game, T20 being a disease, too much money etc were dispelled when they launched their own T20 competition. All this proves is their unbridled jealousy of BCCI's golden goose. They couldn't deliver on their own idea but when BCCI made it one of the biggest sporting ideas of all time, they lost their marbles. According to Englsih fans/pundits they never doctor pitches:hysterical:, only other countries(esp India) do. Says a country that rolled out phattas for RSA in 2012 to counter Steyn, greentops against Lanka,India & turners against Australia in 2013 Ashes to help Swann and exploit Aus weakness against spin bowling. Impossible to argue with an Englishman regarding this, the reasoning they give to justify the nature of the pitches range from magnetic fields and solar storms to weather to underground nature of Earth's crust blah blah blah. Every country has pitches that suits the home team(some more, some less) but no England is always fair and right, their moral standing is unquestionable. In fact I would go as far as to say that they doctor pitches the maximum. At least in India the only parameter is spin(more or less), RSA is seam, Aus is bounce etc. But in England depending on the opposition they can roll out green tops or highways or raging turners. I think that BCCI power is a myth. If BCCI were really that powerful we would never have the stupid 2 new balls rule(do you really think any Asian team would ever want spinners, reverse swing to be taken out of the picture), Anderson would have been punished for assaulting Jadeja, Mike Denness & Sydney 2008 saga would have been dealt with differently, umpires/match refs wouldn't be so anti India, etc. I think the Imperial cricket council is well and truly alive with a convenient fall guy in place in the form of BCCI. Only way BCCI benefits is more money but at the cost of decision making clout. Whole world is up against BCCI but ECB, CA are painted as the tragic heroes who had to side with BCCI to keep the so called monster in check. No mention of 140 years of veto power at the hands of Eng,Aus but now a movie is about to be released to show us as villains. BCCI supports Associates but according to many we are responsible for cutting them out. A country that helped out Lanka(in the 80s and early 90s), Kenya, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, and which had maximum associates playing in the 1996/2011 editions all of a sudden is responsible for them not being in a WC in England. I really hope BCCI sees how ECB is using them. Kick them in the teeth Dalmiya(Srini couldn't do it because he was in Giles Clarke's pocket) and expose them for the hypocrites they have always been. And for a change I hope Team India stands up to England like men. Enough of being whipping boys all the time, shed the complex and treat them like any other team. Even at our peak we gave mediocre England too much respect, hope after all these floggings our boys get all fired up against them.

[kubrickian]

There is some hypocrisy involved but from my perspective and probably from English and Aussies perspective, they find SC pitches for Test matches dull because of the type of cricket they play. They usually operate with fast bowlers and batsmen can also play shots if they settle in. So it leads to attacking cricket and personally, I find that type of test cricket lot more interesting than the type of cricket we play on SC pitches which are slow and low and sometimes can lead to attritional and meandering cricket. I find test cricket in SA, Eng, NZ, Aus way more interesting. But that's just me and to each his own. As far as ODI cricket is concerned, pitches have been flat throughout the world and bowlers need to be given more help to balance the game.

[Temujin Khaghan]

last parah was a good read gollum.

[cric_fan]

And what's up with the shortened boundaries? This is a fekin joke.

[YCCC]

Firstly, find me an article "belittling" Indian players. The knowledgeable cricketing public here respect and admire Indian cricketers, Sky did a full series on "The Story of Sachin" last summer and I've never heard anyone say a bad word about Kohli, Rahane etc, in fact it's the opposite. Secondly, maybe I'm in the wrong circles but I've never heard anyone say that "T20 threatens the international game". I personally dislike it simply because Yorkshire have always under achieved, but I enjoy the format immensely, as do many other cricket supporters like me under 40 years of age. And check your history, England was the first country to start a domestic T20 competition in 2003 long before IPL (not saying it's any good compared to other leagues, but check your facts). I generally like this forum, but chip-on-shoulder rants like this are pathetic. Gollum, I've had some good conversations with you and usually I agree with you, specifically on the state of ODIs at the minute, but this I'm afraid has narked me

[Precambrian]

I had started a thread on this nonsense; http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=319325

I find it amusing and hypocritical when Cook dismisses efforts of Indian batsmen, and Rohit Sharma in particular, as "Those scores are made in sub-continental conditions". I checked statsguru and noted that since the WC 2011 (i.e just above 3 years), England's average ODI score in India is around 223, well below average International score in ODIs, with an ER well below 5. And we are talking about 10 matches which is a sufficiently big sample, and Eng unsurprisingly have lost 8 of them. In fact, if you take all matches in India since WC 11, barring Australia, no team has a average run rate of above 5.32, and the average completed score by a team against India (barring Aus) is 238 runs. Eng, WI, SL, Pak all combined have crossed 300 only twice in 28 matches, while India themselves have crossed this barrier 7 times (and twice going on to make 400+) Yes, I am aware there has been one series last year against Aus where Aus managed to lose the series 3-2 despite not once scoring below 300 but I think in the overall context, it's just one freak series.

[Precambrian]

(Till Nov 2014)

Those are numbers of all visiting teams in ODIs in respective countries since WC 2011. Numbers in India are very much comparable to numbers in England or elsewhere. Scarcely suggestive of "complete roads" that apparently media, particularly english ones and self-hating Indian "Fans" who do not hesitate to put down the achievements of our batsmen, resort to.

[Pagalpanti]

Just look at English pundits going on and on about this new mindset bs. Sure the mindset has changed but absolutely no talk about how flat the pitch has been. If 400 was scored twice in India, pundits all over the world would've lost their marbles and come to twitter in an attempt to save ODI cricket by whining about Indian pitches.

[YCCC]

The flatness of the pitch has been mentioned briefly but it doesn't really matter. What matters to English fans is that England are at least beginning to attempt to move on and play the way the best ODI teams have for years. Today has shown they have a long way to go however. What was good about the first match, and the second to a lesser extent, was that they stopped briefly when they were in a bit of trouble, had a look, then went again. Today they just kept swinging and it backfired

[Gollum]

YCCC this thread has nothing to do with you. I respect you as a poster, you are a great addition to the ICF family but you aren't like other typical English fans. My post is not targeted towards the likes of you. :icflove:

[YCCC]

I know thanks. I sort of feel I need to stick up for the English supporters like myself though. But a good debate and differing opinions are never a bad thing thing and you've lost none of my respect just for a few negative views on English cricket, some of which I agree with. Doctored pitches (dry spin friendly pitches for 2013 Ashes suddenly turning into spitting green mambas for India in 2014 for example) and the politics between the ECB and BCCI especially

[Gollum]

Firstly, find me an article "belittling" Indian players. The knowledgeable cricketing public here respect and admire Indian cricketers, Sky did a full series on "The Story of Sachin" last summer and I've never heard anyone say a bad word about Kohli, Rahane etc, in fact it's the opposite. Secondly, maybe I'm in the wrong circles but I've never heard anyone say that "T20 threatens the international game". I personally dislike it simply because Yorkshire have always under achieved, but I enjoy the format immensely, as do many other cricket supporters like me under 40 years of age. And check your history, England was the first country to start a domestic T20 competition in 2003 long before IPL (not saying it's any good compared to other leagues, but check your facts). I generally like this forum, but chip-on-shoulder rants like this are pathetic. Gollum, I've had some good conversations with you and usually I agree with you, specifically on the state of ODIs at the minute, but this I'm afraid has narked me

I don't want to argue with a sensible guy like you because you aren't like some of your countrymen. (Note: Whatever I have written below isn't an indictment on you or fans having a mindset similar to yours, so chillax) I am not going to post all the articles here but in general I have observed that many of the English pundits and fans belittle Indian achievements. Sachin, Gavaskar,Kapil, Sehwag etc aren't given the same adulation as some of the legends from other countries. I have observed that people like Dravid, Sangakkara, Mahela, Imran, WIndians who suck up to MCC members/English cricket intellectuals are praised much more while those who aren't in the same boat as them are pushed to the side. There were many articles mocking India's rise to the no 1 spot in test cricket. I remember reading articles from the likes of Aggers, Vaughan, Botham, Gough,etc questioning our number 1 spot in test cricket in the 2009-11 period. I agree that our fall in 2011 was very steep and England deservedly got the no 1 spot from us but English pundits overlooked all the achievements of the Indian team in the 2007-2010 period and were very harsh on Dhoni and co. The way Nasser Hussain, Atheron, Botham talked about us in that tour I cringe to this day. There was a distinct lack of grace on their part and who can forget the DRS debate(I support DRS BTW)? It seemed that English fans/pundits didn't want to hear BCCI's side of the story and were busy mocking Sachin saying that BCCI was doing that to protect our star players, especially Sachin. Those who followed Sachin's career would know that he has had his fair share of howlers going against him. That was below the belt Sir and so was all the talk about the nature of Indian pitches, especially in ODIs. ODI pitches all over the world have been getting flatter and flatter but why single out India. I remember how during the 2013 series in India against Australia, Bumble and co were taking potshots over the state of the ODI game in India every day and were apparently worried about the future of the ODI game because of BCCI. I do believe that Indian pitches get too much flak and that is totally unfair. Compare the 2011 CWC pitches with those dished out by Aus and NZ. You must be familiar with the Colin Cowdrey lecture where every year the only topic is bashing IPL,BCCI,Sachin,etc. Whenever anybody says something against India it is applauded by the audience. Also there are seminars frequently held where in the likes of Ehsan Mani and Neil Manthorpe are invited just to badmouth BCCI and IPL. Even I am not a BCCI fan but I do believe that all sporting bodies have some inherent problems and one needs to be fair in stead of the obsession regarding all things Indian. You are right about T20 starting in England but England didn't capitalize on the innovation. It was BCCI that started IPL and seeing their idea taken away by their colonial slaves has had a detrimental effect on the minds of the English cricket establishment. England's hate for IPL is legendary, if they had invested the same energy in developing their own league as they did spreading propaganda against IPL/trying to sabotage IPL with the help of Lalit Modi, I am sure they could have come up with something even better than BBL. IPL has done a great job in advertising the game and in spite of not being an IPL lover I will always be grateful for that reason alone.

[YCCC]

I don't want to argue with a sensible guy like you because you aren't like some of your countrymen. (Note: Whatever I have written below isn't an indictment on you or fans having a mindset similar to yours, so chillax) I am not going to post all the articles here but in general I have observed that many of the English pundits and fans belittle Indian achievements. Sachin, Gavaskar,Kapil, Sehwag etc aren't given the same adulation as some of the legends from other countries. I have observed that people like Dravid, Sangakkara, Mahela, Imran, WIndians who suck up to MCC members/English cricket intellectuals are praised much more while those who aren't in the same boat as them are pushed to the side. There were many articles mocking India's rise to the no 1 spot in test cricket. I remember reading articles from the likes of Aggers, Vaughan, Botham, Gough,etc questioning our number 1 spot in test cricket in the 2009-11 period. I agree that our fall in 2011 was very steep and England deservedly got the no 1 spot from us but English pundits overlooked all the achievements of the Indian team in the 2007-2010 period and were very harsh on Dhoni and co. The way Nasser Hussain, Atheron, Botham talked about us in that tour I cringe to this day. There was a distinct lack of grace on their part and who can forget the DRS debate(I support DRS BTW)? It seemed that English fans/pundits didn't want to hear BCCI's side of the story and were busy mocking Sachin saying that BCCI was doing that to protect our star players, especially Sachin. Those who followed Sachin's career would know that he has had his fair share of howlers going against him. That was below the belt Sir and so was all the talk about the nature of Indian pitches, especially in ODIs. ODI pitches all over the world have been getting flatter and flatter but why single out India. I remember how during the 2013 series in India against Australia, Bumble and co were taking potshots over the state of the ODI game in India every day and were apparently worried about the future of the ODI game because of BCCI. I do believe that Indian pitches get too much flak and that is totally unfair. Compare the 2011 CWC pitches with those dished out by Aus and NZ. You must be familiar with the Colin Cowdrey lecture where every year the only topic is bashing IPL,BCCI,Sachin,etc. Whenever anybody says something against India it is applauded by the audience. Also there are seminars frequently held where in the likes of Ehsan Mani and Neil Manthorpe are invited just to badmouth BCCI and IPL. Even I am not a BCCI fan but I do believe that all sporting bodies have some inherent problems and one needs to be fair in stead of the obsession regarding all things Indian. You are right about T20 starting in England but England didn't capitalize on the innovation. It was BCCI that started IPL and seeing their idea taken away by their colonial slaves has had a detrimental effect on the minds of the English cricket establishment. England's hate for IPL is legendary, if they had invested the same energy in developing their own league as they did spreading propaganda against IPL/trying to sabotage IPL with the help of Lalit Modi, I am sure they could have come up with something even better than BBL. IPL has done a great job in advertising the game and in spite of not being an IPL lover I will always be grateful for that reason alone.

I have heard about the Cowdrey lecture, but never take much notice of it as the intellectual, self congratulation stuff isn't really my thing. I just assumed it was just a different cricketer telling his life story every year, but if it is used to criticise India every year then that's poor. I'm sorry I really can't agree about Sachin. I don't know of anyone in world cricket who doesn't respect him and his achievements, even in England. But you've clearly read and seen things in the media you don't like, and that's fine. As for T20, again this is just me not England in general. I like the IPL, I like the T20 Blast (despite Yorkshire's poor record) but both are very different, and in many ways synonymous with their respective cricketing cultures. I think slowly people in power are coming round to the idea that the IPL could be a good thing for English cricketers to become involved in for the good of our domestic game and national team, having seen the positive effects it has had on most countries whose players are involved in it, and hopefully the attitude of the ECB will change even further now it's run by a progressive minded Yorkshireman rather than a snobby private school toff

[Debutant]

[Shivaji bhonsle]

Why do you care and how does it matter?

[f.b.m]

A lot of credit goes to the groundsmen for the Eng-NZ series who made pitches conducive to exciting cricket. We have been thoroughly entertained.