G_B_ Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 something has to give. India need to generate jobs. It needs to lift some 200 million people off the land. If you get more than twice the market value of the land then you should not be complaining. Invest the money wisely in real estate (apartments) and a portfolio of stocks and over time you will have good returns. India has a population density which is so high that every acre of land matters. My family got their land taken in the 1970s in mumbai by the municipality for road widening. We got paid 10% of its actual prices. Just be happy if they give you proper compensation. Use the money you get to start a business or educate yourselves. The average holding in India is 4 acres. Industries like coal steel etc need about 1000 acres of contiguous land. You are not going to invite any FDI into the country if MNC's have to keep asking people to sell their land.
mishra Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 something has to give. India need to generate jobs. It needs to lift some 200 million people off the land. If you get more than twice the market value of the land then you should not be complaining. Invest the money wisely in real estate (apartments) and a portfolio of stocks and over time you will have good returns. India has a population density which is so high that every acre of land matters. My family got their land taken in the 1970s in mumbai by the municipality for road widening. We got paid 10% of its actual prices. Just be happy if they give you proper compensation. Use the money you get to start a business or educate yourselves. I totally agree that we cant develop without industrialisation. I am not complaining. I am just stating the feeling of land owner. Why cant government not keep land with my family as owner and buy the leasehold?
Sachin=GOD Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 [ As far as i am aware, nobody from within the BJP applied.. you need to be free to do a job right? I don't think any film personality from BJP was even asked. Chauhan was head of BJP's culture cell and was pushed by RSS as well. According to many media reports names like Shyam Benegal, Adoor Gopalakrishnan, Gulzar etc were in consideration from the industry. Then they went for a C grade actor whose only qualification is a big role in Mahabharata 25 years ago.
Sachin=GOD Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 Thats what politics is.... I dont understand what exactly where you expecting from the BJP with 46 members in the RS house of 245? Things would magically happen? If that was the case you need to lower your expectations. Its all part of the game. When the BJP came out in praise of the land bill it was in part to guage the mood and also see where their allies stand. I didn't expect them to pass the LAB with 46 members in RS but I did expect that they would be aware of the fact that with 46 members they wouldn't be able to pass it - it seems its not I who was expecting something magical, rather it was BJP which was expecting something magical hence they perused this for so long despite knowing that numbers were against them. The Govt brought 3 ordinances for the Land Bill in 8 months - that's not called 'praising the bill or gauging the mood of opposition parties'. Arun Jaitley even talked of Joint Session - that's as serious as it gets. In the end it's clear that they hadn't planned well enough hence now they have to do an embarrassing climbdown.
G_B_ Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 I don't think any film personality from BJP was even asked. Chauhan was head of BJP's culture cell and was pushed by RSS as well. According to many media reports names like Shyam Benegal' date=' Adoor Gopalakrishnan, Gulzar etc were in consideration from the industry. Then they went for a C grade actor whose only qualification is a big role in Mahabharata 25 years ago.[/quote'] Thats not the question. If nobody applied how is this the BJP's problem? Let me tell you something, at university I applied to get into the class of Tim Burner Lee. Supposed inventor of the world wide web. Now this guy was brilliant. But 90% of the time he was away from class on how speaking tour at some conference. A phd student filled in and that guy was poor as a lecturer. Time is the key. Did these people realistically have the time to give to the job? I do know Paresh Rawal was sounded out but he was too busy with other projects. A lot of the names you mentioned at busy in mumbai. Its not as if the institute is in mumbai.
Sachin=GOD Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 Thats not the question. If nobody applied how is this the BJP's problem? Let me tell you something, at university I applied to get into the class of Tim Burner Lee. Supposed inventor of the world wide web. Now this guy was brilliant. But 90% of the time he was away from class on how speaking tour at some conference. A phd student filled in and that guy was poor as a lecturer. Time is the key. Did these people realistically have the time to give to the job? I do know Paresh Rawal was sounded out but he was too busy with other projects. A lot of the names you mentioned at busy in mumbai. Its not as if the institute is in mumbai. I find it impossible to believe that they couldn't find even one film personality from the whole country who was both close to BJP and was willing to give time for this rather prestigious job.
Sachin=GOD Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 http://m.firstpost.com/politics/monsoon-washout-modi-govt-lost-plot-needs-now-2377868.html Modi really needs to read this.
someone Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Think the LAB bill got withdrawn due to the upcoming Bihar elections. BJP didn't want those elections to be themed about LAB bill and rightfully so. BJP had possibly thought that in this monsoon section with understanding from various opposition parties, could have passed it. However, this monsoon session has turned out very violent behavior from opposition. Ultimately, all these things will not matter if BJP wins the Bihar elections. Bihar agenda should be focused on Nitish Kumar failures, and JDU-RJD jungle raj. However, one defeat there and certainly, Congress and its proxies will have a big momentum with them. And that will bring many problems for BJP.
The Outsider Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 people need to read between the lines. Modi has withdrawn the land bill and its amendments for now. It is to make sure the Congress plays ball with the GST. It can easily be brought back again post 2016 RS elections. Modi needs 2/3 members of both houses for the GST. This is not a u turn it is a strategic climb down. Post the GST the joint session will be the avenue to get both land and labour bills through. BJP ruled states are already pushing ahead with their version of the land bill http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/land-acquisition-maharashtra-offers-a-sweet-land-deal/ If the BJP win UP and Bihar 50% of India population and more than 50% of its landmass will have the land bill which Modi desires at state level. You're wrong. The existing Land Bill already has a clause in it (117) which says that states have a right only to improve on the compensation of the land sellers, not bring it down. Presidential assent cannot override a legislative law. It was brought in just to make sure the type of haraamzaadgi BJP is trying to do by stealing land and handing it over to corporates doesn't take place.
G_B_ Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 You're wrong. The existing Land Bill already has a clause in it (117) which says that states have a right only to improve on the compensation of the land sellers' date=' not bring it down. Presidential assent cannot override a legislative law.[/quote'] Nobody is disputing that. Compensation is not the issue with the land bill of the BJP. Not a major sticking point anyways. Its the social impact and consent clauses. The land aquisition in general is not an issue in some states. The likes of Maharashtra and Andhra Pradesh are already creating major land banks by directly negotiating with private land holders. Last i heard Maharashtra was in the process of acquiring 6000 hectres of land. The land bill is important for states like Bihar where Nitish kumar has not built up any land bank for industrial activity. You are living in the USA where most of the land was stolen from the native americans. Its not as if the BJP are the only ones in the world to propose something for the greater good. The point is sooner or later they are going to be passed in some capacity. BJP numbers will rise in the RS till 2019 and congress numbers will dip. The government can bide their time. The GST with 2/3 majority is much harder to pass. Hence it is the priority. The land bill atm is a tactical retreat. As you can see labour reforms have already passed in Rajasthan. So i dont expect states to be blocked from passing labour reforms.
The Outsider Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Nobody is disputing that. Compensation is not the issue with the land bill of the BJP. Not a major sticking point anyways. Its the social impact and consent clauses. The land aquisition in general is not an issue in some states. The likes of Maharashtra and Andhra Pradesh are already creating major land banks by directly negotiating with private land holders. Last i heard Maharashtra was in the process of acquiring 6000 hectres of land. The land bill is important for states like Bihar where Nitish kumar has not built up any land bank for industrial activity. I've repeatedly said I have no issues with private parties selling/buying land. That is not the point of contention. What I find as trampling on personal rights is the government acquiring land on behalf of private parties. Again there are exceptional cases like railway and power lines, but if Fortis wants to set up a hospital, they should take the onus of acquiring the land. You are living in the USA where most of the land was stolen from the native americans. Its not as if the BJP are the only ones in the world to propose something for the greater good. That's a stupid point. I wasn't in the U.S. when land was being taken away from native Americans and neither were American laws the same today as they were then, and if I live in USA that doesn't mean I agree with all laws and actions of the U.S. Government. I simply fail to see the relevance of the statement. The point is sooner or later they are going to be passed in some capacity. BJP numbers will rise in the RS till 2019 and congress numbers will dip. The government can bide their time. The GST with 2/3 majority is much harder to pass. Hence it is the priority. The land bill atm is a tactical retreat. As you can see labour reforms have already passed in Rajasthan. So i dont expect states to be blocked from passing labour reforms. Yeah, GST is more important but BJP have screwed that up as well by having so many exemptions to render it quite useless. Power and electricity are proposed to be exempted under the BJP version. Pretty much every manufactured product uses power and electricity as an input.
G_B_ Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 I've repeatedly said I have no issues with private parties selling/buying land. That is not the point of contention. What I find as trampling on personal rights is the government acquiring land on behalf of private parties. Again there are exceptional cases like railway and power lines' date= but if Fortis wants to set up a hospital, they should take the onus of acquiring the land. Read more at http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/04/economist-explains-18#iOmCdahS5KkvDqfY.99 So its not just India. This is the UK version and it will be used for the new high speed rail link or Heathrow airport expansion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_purchase_order Provided the farmers (or anybody) gets twice or more than twice the market value of their plot, in addition to a job on what comes up. It should not be an issue. For me the issue is proper compensation. Does the bill do that? Yes IMO. The point is every industrial nation has to go through the pain barrier when somebodies rights were trampled on. You were not there , but you are enjoying the fruits of that. The meiji restoration in Japan effectively seized public property for national good. Infact the birth of the church of England saw King Henry seize lands from the church. My own family as i mentioned lost land around the mumbai region to road widening in the 1970s. We got 10% compensation of market value. There will come a point when every nation will have to compromise on rights for the greater good. How exactly has the BJP screwed up? The congress will not vote for anything. They have to keep producing states like TN happy. You cant just have the GST. Otherwise states like TN Guj and Tamil nadu will be incredibly bitter. Maybe thats why this bill has been languishing for so long? There is a major gap between producing and consuming states. There is a general consensus that while the BJP GST bill is not perfect it is better than nothing. It happens all over the world. The problem is not just acquiring land, it acquiring contiguous land. If you need to acquire 10 acres for example. You cant aquire 1 acre in one place and 1 acre 10 km away. Hold outs are the problem.
The Outsider Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 The deadlock is a creation of Modi's brand of BJP. Wrapped up in emotions, he declared a Congress mukht Bharat. Denying LoP and subsequent automatic inductions in parliamentary committees. Obviously, Congress is going to fight back. Regardless, the 44 seats they have around 20% of the country vote versus the 31% of BJP. Along with anti-BJP parties, they control the Rajya Sabha. An acceptable middle ground could have been that Raje and Chouhan stay because they are subject to state issues and Swaraj will resign pending an inquiry committee. But Modi is used to a legislature where he could ban all opposition and meet 23 times a year to get everything done. He is clueless about governing in Delhi. Unless Swaraj resigns or agrees to a probe the next session is going to be the same. Even well meaning legislative acts will not be passed because the only way out of this impasse is a climb down, which Modi is incapable of.
G_B_ Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 The deadlock is a creation of Modi's brand of BJP. Wrapped up in emotions' date=' he declared a Congress mukht Bharat. Denying LoP and subsequent automatic inductions in parliamentary committees. Obviously, Congress is going to fight back. Regardless, the 44 seats they have around 20% of the country vote versus the 31% of BJP. Along with anti-BJP parties, they control the Rajya Sabha. [/quote'] So you agree they are fighting for the sake of it and it is a purely political issue. One resignation would trigger a domino effect. It would set a precedent. Also no, i dont believe another session will be washed out. Modi will bide his time when congress numbers dilute in 2016 and give up on the GST deadline of 2016. He will aim to pass it before April 2017. He will concentrate on money bills which dont need the RS. Of which there are plenty. He will wait for the RS numbers to turn in his favour.
Precambrian Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Why the heck should Sushma agree to resign for such a non issue? Rubbish! The British Govt has issued clarification that the whole thing was done as per their domestic laws. So far the opposition has not been able to find a single proof suggesting Sushma 'recommended/suggested' travel papers be released to Modi. Unbelievable is the logic of some in this issue! She is easily one of the best ministers in this ministry - who has personally overseen quite a lot of achievements already. The most important of being the evacuation of people from strife torn Yemen. She has also arranged for timely expatriation of a lot of Indians stuck in the middle east - including people who have been illegally detained. Congress has clearly run out of any credible issues to raise and have to rely on purely state issues like vyapam/raje and non issues like Modi (give it a break! The man didn't kill anyone/conspire against the nation! FFS). This is politics of the worst - Kaangressi kind. There is absolutely no need for Modi to give an inch on these matters. Today if they relent on such a non issue, tomorrow they will bring up another trivial issue to hold the parliament for ransom.
Precambrian Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 So you agree they are fighting for the sake of it and it is a purely political issue. One resignation would trigger a domino effect. It would set a precedent. Also no, i dont believe another session will be washed out. Modi will bide his time when congress numbers dilute in 2016 and give up on the GST deadline of 2016. He will aim to pass it before April 2017. He will concentrate on money bills which dont need the RS. Of which there are plenty. He will wait for the RS numbers to turn in his favour. He met with Jayalalitha today in Chennai. I think this is a strategic meet to get her help on passing the GST bill. Can't a joint sitting of RS and LS be called to discuss and vote GST?
BeautifulGame Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 something has to give. India need to generate jobs. It needs to lift some 200 million people off the land. If you get more than twice the market value of the land then you should not be complaining. Invest the money wisely in real estate (apartments) and a portfolio of stocks and over time you will have good returns. India has a population density which is so high that every acre of land matters. My family got their land taken in the 1970s in mumbai by the municipality for road widening. We got paid 10% of its actual prices. Just be happy if they give you proper compensation. Use the money you get to start a business or educate yourselves. The average holding in India is 4 acres. Industries like coal steel etc need about 1000 acres of contiguous land. You are not going to invite any FDI into the country if MNC's have to keep asking people to sell their land. No offense but were u depending on that lands for your livelihood? Its much different for a farmer when his actual livelihood is snatched for 1/10 of the real market price that too without his concent.How exactly is he going to start a business or educate himself suddenly when he was a farmer all his life? All that will do is force him into manual labour and increase poverty. And with the modi amendments the agri labours who dont own but still depend on it for livelihood wont even get any compensation . Whats worse is the law allowed the corporate /local Gundas to just procure the lands on flimsy reasons for cheap and keep it without starting any projects and then sell it 2-3 years later for massive profits.Basically offically govt sanctioned real estate business for local gundas.
seedhi Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 The deadlock is a creation of Modi's brand of BJP. Wrapped up in emotions, he declared a Congress mukht Bharat. Denying LoP and subsequent automatic inductions in parliamentary committees. Obviously, Congress is going to fight back. Regardless, the 44 seats they have around 20% of the country vote versus the 31% of BJP. Along with anti-BJP parties, they control the Rajya Sabha. An acceptable middle ground could have been that Raje and Chouhan stay because they are subject to state issues and Swaraj will resign pending an inquiry committee. But Modi is used to a legislature where he could ban all opposition and meet 23 times a year to get everything done. He is clueless about governing in Delhi. Unless Swaraj resigns or agrees to a probe the next session is going to be the same. Even well meaning legislative acts will not be passed because the only way out of this impasse is a climb down, which Modi is incapable of.When one political party is hell bent on obstructing the parliament there is no middle ground. If Sushma Swaraj resigns on an issue which has no illegality in it, then any and every cabinet minister including Modi will have to resign. If Sushma Swaraj is forced to resign, the entire government will become dysfunctional, not just the Rajya Sabha.
seedhi Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 I hope the next session of Rajya Sabha and every session till Narendra Modi's term is also disrupted by the Congress. This will give Narendra Modi an easy stick to beat the Congress with for any shortcomings in his tenure. Perhaps then we will finally see Congress mukt bharat.
Sachin=GOD Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 The deadlock is a creation of Modi's brand of BJP. Wrapped up in emotions, he declared a Congress mukht Bharat. Denying LoP and subsequent automatic inductions in parliamentary committees. Obviously, Congress is going to fight back. Regardless, the 44 seats they have around 20% of the country vote versus the 31% of BJP. Along with anti-BJP parties, they control the Rajya Sabha. An acceptable middle ground could have been that Raje and Chouhan stay because they are subject to state issues and Swaraj will resign pending an inquiry committee. But Modi is used to a legislature where he could ban all opposition and meet 23 times a year to get everything done. He is clueless about governing in Delhi. Unless Swaraj resigns or agrees to a probe the next session is going to be the same. Even well meaning legislative acts will not be passed because the only way out of this impasse is a climb down, which Modi is incapable of. The deadlock is certainly a creation of BJP - reason is hubris and more than that, bad planning. From the moment this Govt was sworn in, they knew that NDA had a majority in Lok Sabha and minority in Rajya Sabha - there was no doubt about it at all still they used so much time and political capital and created unnecessary hostility in passing the LAB. Even brought 3 ordinances for it. In the end they have had to climbdown and support pretty much the Congress' version. BTW inductions in parliamentary committees have NOT been denied - those don't come alongside LoP post. Many Cong leaders are part of parliamentary committees and some (like Shashi Tharoor) are even Chairmen. Swaraj's case is one of bad judgement at best. There's no case for resignation in that (earlier I also thought that she could have been asked to resign but after reading a lot about the case, I've changed my mind on this). Chauhan, if involved in Vyapam, must go.
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