Marut Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Dhoni sometimes just gave up when the going got tough. This could be attributed to his lack of confidence in our bowlers. If Kohli too gets the same bowlers Dhoni got, he too would surrender after a while. Dhoni's second half of captaincy coincided with several misfortunes at the same time - retirement/expulsion of several legends like Sehwag, Gambhir, Dravid, Sachin, Laxman, Zaheer. Which team or captain can survive such a mass exodus? After the retirement of these players we were replaced by inexperienced youngsters. And it was the worst time for undertaking tour after tour - to SA, NZ, Eng and Aus. And we did not have the bowling firepower to compensate the downfall in the batting department. It is easy to put all the blame on Dhoni, but I am 100% sure the results in all those games would be no different under any other captain - even the likes of Lloyd, Imran, Kapil, Fleming, Ganguly,Taylor etc would have tasted defeat after defeat with a team like this, which did not have a single match winning bowler for overseas conditions.
Vijy Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Dhoni sometimes just gave up when the going got tough. This could be attributed to his lack of confidence in our bowlers. If Kohli too gets the same bowlers Dhoni got, he too would surrender after a while. Dhoni's second half of captaincy coincided with several misfortunes at the same time - retirement/expulsion of several legends like Sehwag, Gambhir, Dravid, Sachin, Laxman, Zaheer. Which team or captain can survive such a mass exodus? After the retirement of these players we were replaced by inexperienced youngsters. And it was the worst time for undertaking tour after tour - to SA, NZ, Eng and Aus. And we did not have the bowling firepower to compensate the downfall in the batting department. It is easy to put all the blame on Dhoni, but I am 100% sure the results in all those games would be no different under any other captain - even the likes of Lloyd, Imran, Kapil, Fleming, Ganguly,Taylor etc would have tasted defeat after defeat with a team like this, which did not have a single match winning bowler for overseas conditions. One can also add Kumble's retirement and the ever-increasing decline of Bhajji to this list.
maniac Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Dhoni sometimes just gave up when the going got tough. This could be attributed to his lack of confidence in our bowlers. If Kohli too gets the same bowlers Dhoni got, he too would surrender after a while. Dhoni's second half of captaincy coincided with several misfortunes at the same time - retirement/expulsion of several legends like Sehwag, Gambhir, Dravid, Sachin, Laxman, Zaheer. Which team or captain can survive such a mass exodus? After the retirement of these players we were replaced by inexperienced youngsters. And it was the worst time for undertaking tour after tour - to SA, NZ, Eng and Aus. And we did not have the bowling firepower to compensate the downfall in the batting department. It is easy to put all the blame on Dhoni, but I am 100% sure the results in all those games would be no different under any other captain - even the likes of Lloyd, Imran, Kapil, Fleming, Ganguly,Taylor etc would have tasted defeat after defeat with a team like this, which did not have a single match winning bowler for overseas conditions. That is because he backed the wrong bowlers....He had more confidence in Jadeja than Yadav.....He was just dependant on Zak to handle the bowling strategy wise and was never involved.....His field setting were pathetic and batting line-up dictated itself...so don't know what he brought in as a captain......Having Rohit open the batting in ODI's was probably one of the best strategically sound moves he did.
Marut Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 One can also add Kumble's retirement and the ever-increasing decline of Bhajji to this list. Yes. But Bhajji was fully compensated by Ashwin. But replacing Sehwag, Dravid, Sachin, Laxman and Zaheer isn't that easy. Even Gambhir at his peak was a damn good batsman. Australia crumbled after the fall of their legends even though their bowling was much more decent compared to India.
div Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Dhoni sometimes just gave up when the going got tough. This could be attributed to his lack of confidence in our bowlers. If Kohli too gets the same bowlers Dhoni got, he too would surrender after a while. Dhoni's second half of captaincy coincided with several misfortunes at the same time - retirement/expulsion of several legends like Sehwag, Gambhir, Dravid, Sachin, Laxman, Zaheer. Which team or captain can survive such a mass exodus? After the retirement of these players we were replaced by inexperienced youngsters. And it was the worst time for undertaking tour after tour - to SA, NZ, Eng and Aus. And we did not have the bowling firepower to compensate the downfall in the batting department. It is easy to put all the blame on Dhoni, but I am 100% sure the results in all those games would be no different under any other captain - even the likes of Lloyd, Imran, Kapil, Fleming, Ganguly,Taylor etc would have tasted defeat after defeat with a team like this, which did not have a single match winning bowler for overseas conditions. This is what Ashwin's coach had said. "If you see, he was playing more of a holding role for India in the overseas Test matches last year. There was also a bit of chopping and changing going on in the Indian side. But now things have changed. Ashwin and Kohli are on the same page as far as the Indian team's strategy of playing with five bowlers is concerned. Much to Ashwin's liking, Virat has given him the licence to attack in order to get those 20 opposition wickets. He is relishing this challenge and that's why you are seeing him flighting the ball more. He is also pitching the ball more on the off and asking the batsman to come forward. That shows his aggressive mentality," said Subramaniam. http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/74083/virat-kohli-has-given-ashwin-license-to-kill
Vijy Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Yes. But Bhajji was fully compensated by Ashwin. But replacing Sehwag' date=' Dravid, Sachin, Laxman and Zaheer isn't that easy. Even Gambhir at his peak was a damn good batsman. Australia crumbled after the fall of their legends even though their bowling was much more decent compared to India.[/quote'] Not Kumble though.
maniac Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 This is what Ashwin's coach had said. http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/74083/virat-kohli-has-given-ashwin-license-to-kill I don't think DHoni was Anti-ashwin...if anything he did back him often but his Jadeja love was so strong that it overshadowed everything and that was a big disaster.
div Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I don't think DHoni was Anti-ashwin...if anything he did back him often but his Jadeja love was so strong that it overshadowed everything and that was a big disaster. Dhoni was not anti-Ashwin,but as some one pointed out, he was more interested in shorter formats.
Vijy Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Dhoni was not anti-Ashwin' date='but as some one pointed out, he was more interested in shorter formats.[/quote'] Yes, he certainly wasn't. But, I think he knew how to handle Ashwin better in T20s rather than ODIs and Tests.
Gollum Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Dhoni was quite good in his initial years. Let us make this call after 2017 folks. My expectations for Kohli are higher, just hope he backs the right players and not those with supposed flair. Also Shastri needs to go, Kohli can never achieve his true potential with that clown in the mix.
maniac Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Dhoni was quite good in his initial years. Let us make this call after 2017 folks. My expectations for Kohli are higher' date=' just hope he backs the right players and not those with supposed flair. Also Shastri needs to go, Kohli can never achieve his true potential with that clown in the mix.[/quote'] Serious question,I know you hate Rohit but.....you want the captain to set an example by dropping a guy who has shattered ODI records and is pretty much supported by the entire cricketing fraternity as a bright talent to back some kid just randomly? What kind of an example will that set. Your wish might be answered if Rohit flops continuously over the next few matches but have patience......right now it just shows hate for a player. I think Kohli has to strike the balance between A) backing a player he believes in and B)dropping a player no matter what their reputation is which is a symbol of a great captain....so far he gets 50 points for doing A and I am sure he will do B as well
Marut Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 That is because he backed the wrong bowlers....He had more confidence in Jadeja than Yadav.....He was just dependant on Zak to handle the bowling strategy wise and was never involved.....His field setting were pathetic and batting line-up dictated itself...so don't know what he brought in as a captain......Having Rohit open the batting in ODI's was probably one of the best strategically sound moves he did. Yadav hasn't really set the world on fire - average of 38 is hardly international class. He leaks so many runs that puts pressure on the entire bowling unit. So many times I have seen him going for 5-6rpo in a test match. He may improve if future of course, but he hasn't done enough to gain the captain's confidence.
Marut Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Five bowler strategy may work in the SC. Overseas, we will be routed for cheap scores if we accommodate five bowlers in the side. (unless one of them is a wonderful allrounder)
maniac Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Yadav hasn't really set the world on fire - average of 38 is hardly international class. He leaks so many runs that puts pressure on the entire bowling unit. So many times I have seen him going for 5-6rpo in a test match. He may improve if future of course' date=' but he hasn't done enough to gain the captain's confidence.[/quote'] From the Home WI tour of 2011-2012 until the home series against England(the first test) Yadav was the rising star...He was amazing and then he got injured and bizarrely never came back...how do we justify that?
MCcricket Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Great Post Thnx, I differ on your views about Saha as I have seen him bat and play match winning innings n Ranji when the team needs it and against good teams, Keeper he is a good one, just needs support n patience as if ur in waiting all ur life on sidelines it takes a big of time sometimes to play with a free mind. The problem with Indian cricket is very rarely we have selectors , coaches, captains working with a vision, long term goal and working out what they need to do and plan ahead to overcome our weaknesses . In the past we have had, Wright, Kirsten, Ganguly, Horse and few of such guys who made our team into a good one and it is more of a case of individuals then system to work towards making our team better, as there is no clear planning, method, risk taking .
MCcricket Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 A captain can make a good team great n a average team good, I remember N Hussein coming to India with a worse team ever n he beat us in test n did well.He had very well laid out plans n though average players but strategy compensated for that.With Dhoni his problems were multi fold in test n that worked twice as badly for us, as he could not bat, strtergize wanted to win n nepotism in selections and thus making good bowlers average n then complain
Gollum Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Serious question,I know you hate Rohit but.....you want the captain to set an example by dropping a guy who has shattered ODI records and is pretty much supported by the entire cricketing fraternity as a bright talent to back some kid just randomly? What kind of an example will that set. Your wish might be answered if Rohit flops continuously over the next few matches but have patience......right now it just shows hate for a player. I think Kohli has to strike the balance between A) backing a player he believes in and B)dropping a player no matter what their reputation is which is a symbol of a great captain....so far he gets 50 points for doing A and I am sure he will do B as well I don't hate Rohit the ODI/T20 player. I hate Nohit the test player. Big Difference. Don't confuse formats. Pujara ain't some random kid, over the years he has shown his caliber in the longer format.
Gollum Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 A captain can make a good team great n a average team good' date=' I remember N Hussein coming to India with a worse team ever[b'] n he beat us in test n did well.He had very well laid out plans n though average players but strategy compensated for that.With Dhoni his problems were multi fold in test n that worked twice as badly for us, as he could not bat, strtergize wanted to win n nepotism in selections and thus making good bowlers average n then complain Nope not in India.
Vijy Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Thnx, I differ on your views about Saha as I have seen him bat and play match winning innings n Ranji when the team needs it and against good teams, Keeper he is a good one, just needs support n patience as if ur in waiting all ur life on sidelines it takes a big of time sometimes to play with a free mind. The problem with Indian cricket is very rarely we have selectors , coaches, captains working with a vision, long term goal and working out what they need to do and plan ahead to overcome our weaknesses . In the past we have had, Wright, Kirsten, Ganguly, Horse and few of such guys who made our team into a good one and it is more of a case of individuals then system to work towards making our team better, as there is no clear planning, method, risk taking . Saha has indeed been a standout performer in the middle order for Bengal. Other keeper-batsmen have played a bit higher up the order (Pappu, DK, N. Ojha) and scored runs there. Only other keeper who comes to mind who's a bit like Saha is Rawat.
MCcricket Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Nope not in India. I mentioned test n not test series, I think they won a test n India had to work hard to draw or maybe win that one, this was with young Hoggard I believe
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