Pace and Hype

[Rightarmfast]

 

Pretty interesting. One Indian fast bowler gets mentioned here, by one of England's sanest player- Mike Atherton. This video is kind of off topic, but it just shows that India has not been so devoid of pace bowlers -

 

[rkt.india]

The speed in 1979 competition were jokes  , even 147 is not something which we expect from ultra fast bowler. 22 year Holding was measured clocking 148.5 in 1975, and 153 in 1976.

1975 measurement was with high speed accurate camera's while 1976 was with conventional radar

The question is why Holding was unable to hit 150 kph in 1979 , I think there was something more in that , may be readings were 7-10 kph slower in 1979 competition 

Jeff Thomson himself said in 1979 he was coming after a shoulder injury and a long lay off and wasn't at his fastest still he had beaten all other fast bowlers quite easily. He had lost pace after that injury.

[Singh bling]

Jeff Thomson himself said in 1979 he was coming after a shoulder injury and a long lay off and wasn't at his fastest still he had beaten all other fast bowlers quite easily. He had lost pace after that injury.

Agree Thompson was coming from injury , but what happened to Holding? He was at his peak, averaging  135 with fastest 141..3 is quite slow for a bowler which has reputation of one of the fastest ever

I searched net for this competition  and it is topic of discussion on many Cricket forums, majority believe that speed was measured on an average of 18 yards rather than after split second which TV's these days employ.Many even say that Jeff won because he bowled too many full tosses while West Indian quicks  bowled normal bowls

 

One competition cannot be taken as word of god unless we have full details what camera's they employed , at what angle they had camera's , How they measured the speed etc

[Singh bling]

Had they done it any differentyl, I bet they would have mentioned it. And I bet, if these speeds were slower, if nobody, Jeff Thomson would have spoken about it. 

I havent seen vinay kumar bowling at 144, and I have made no claims about Vinay. So what he could have done then, is beyond me.

 

Search Vinay Kumar 147 kph  , you will find that Vinay hit 147 in 2013 IPL, and Jeff always claim that he was measured at batsmen's end and he could had been measured 180 kph( which is rubbish) with modern technique

[Rightarmfast]

A lot of things are rubbish, and thats what we are discussing on this thread. A lot of misconceptions. This includes your assumption of Imran being genuine pace which he never was. 

Michael Holding was fast around 75-76 for sure. But if you see the normal history, most express bowlers slow down in 2-3 yrs time, except for shoaib and Lee. Waqar was fast only during 89-92. After that, he was fast medium. So there is a trend if you notice.

 

[Vilander]

You watched 2006 India-Pak test series in Pak. Akhtar was at his fastest in that series. He was clicking 157-158 easily. I have never seen Brett Lee bowling that quick ever in test matches.

RKT read this article.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/cricinfoat20/content/current/story/661125.html

I know he hit 157 many times prior to 2003 but he was not as consistently 155+ as Lee/Tait were. He used to bowl his first over 152+ and then fizzle, second spell first over used to be 148+.

[Vilander]

I had seen Shoaib bowling overs with avg speed of 155 in that WC. 

hmm I distinctly remember him not doing it.

[rkt.india]

Not saying faulty speed gun , but may be they measured distance slightly longer than they did in 1975.O/W please tell me how Holding was averaging barely 135 with fastest 141. People here are saying that today's bowlers will hit 156 in those condition. By that Logic Holding's average speed in test must be 132-133  as he was putting extra effort and with that he averaged 135, this put him in category of Vinay Kumar and not even with Zaheer or Shami.

 

Btw do you think if we time travel Vinay Kumar of 2010-2011 to 1979 , he could had emerged as winner  or second, after all everybody has seen few of his deliveries around 144

speed does not come just because you want to bowl quick. It also depends on a lot of things, your rhythm, how your body reacts that particular day. Vinay might have bowled a few deliveries in 140s in 10 years of his career because he suddenly found rhythm , things came right for him, his body reacted well, but it doesnt mean he will clock that pace any day you want from him. Same with every bowler. Look at even Aaron, someday he struggles to clock 145, some day he hits 150K easily.  Same is with Umesh and every other bowler who has played. Possible, Holding might have bowled quicker in actually matches and on that day, he could not do that or possible he might have slowed down like or own Munna form 147 quickest to struggling to hit 135. Another example, Sreesanth, sometimes, he has been bowling in 145s, quickest at 149 and other times, he struggle to clock 135.

[Vilander]

Search Vinay Kumar 147 kph  , you will find that Vinay hit 147 in 2013 IPL, and Jeff always claim that he was measured at batsmen's end and he could had been measured 180 kph( which is rubbish) with modern technique

in 1979 they were measured at bowlers end, release speed.

[rkt.india]

RKT read this article.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/cricinfoat20/content/current/story/661125.html

I know he hit 157 many times prior to 2003 but he was not as consistently 155+ as Lee/Tait were. He used to bowl his first over 152+ and then fizzle, second spell first over used to be 148+.

But I have never seen Lee and Tait bowl 155 plus in test cricket. Yes, Shoaib might have slowed in a spell, but that is because he didnt have the fitness to sustain. I dont think even Tait and Lee have bowled multiple overs of 155 plus in a single match.

[Vilander]

But I have never seen Lee and Tait bowl 155 plus in test cricket. Yes, Shoaib might have slowed in a spell, but that is because he didnt have the fitness to sustain. I dont think even Tait and Lee have bowled multiple overs of 155 plus in a single match.

I don't remember Tait playing in Tests but he was quicker than Lee always in limited overs games( may be age was the reason). I have Seen Lee bowl 152 + consistently and hit 155 often in Tests, and Akthar not doing it from the other side. Not seen 155 + spells from any one, bar overs from Lee and distinctly remember Sohaib not doing it even one full over. Sohaib and Lee had similar highs but Lee had faster lows ( I don't mean slower balls), I mean faster stock balls. I don't discount that Sohaib probably delivered the fasted ball ever.

[express bowling]

 

The speed in 1979 competition were jokes  , even 147 is not something which we expect from ultra fast bowler. 22 year Holding was measured clocking 148.5 in 1975, and 153 in 1976.

1975 measurement was with high speed accurate camera's while 1976 was with conventional radar

The question is why Holding was unable to hit 150 kph in 1979 , I think there was something more in that , may be readings were 7-10 kph slower in 1979 competition 

Jeff Thomson was not playing regularly when  the 1979 competition was held , he had lost pace after injury....even then he hit 147.9 k.  tells you that there was nothing wrong with the speed guns.  

Holding was perhaps having a bad day in terms of pace....happens at times.  He has looked visually very quick in the '70s and always much quicker than Imran. Also...he has been clocked at 148 k and 153 k earlier....showing that he was capable of reaching such pace. 

There is no evidence anywhere of Imran bowling close to 150 k even. Neither has he looked very quick in any of the videos. I have seen him bowl too and always thought that his pace was being hyped up.

[rkt.india]

I don't remember Tait playing in Tests but he was quicker than Lee always in limited overs games( may be age was the reason). I have Seen Lee bowl 152 + consistently and hit 155 often in Tests, and Akthar not doing it from the other side. Not seen 155 + spells from any one, bar overs from Lee and distinctly remember Sohaib not doing it even one full over. Sohaib and Lee had similar highs but Lee had faster lows ( I don't mean slower balls), I mean faster stock balls. I don't discount that Sohaib probably delivered the fasted ball ever.

I have seen Shoaib doing it live on one of India's tour to Pakistan and it was not his first spell or first over, but later in the innings. He was clocking 157-158K. Dravid was batting solidly.

[Singh bling]

speed does not come just because you want to bowl quick. It also depends on a lot of things, your rhythm, how your body reacts that particular day. Vinay might have bowled a few deliveries in 140s in 10 years of his career because he suddenly found rhythm , things came right for him, his body reacted well, but it doesnt mean he will clock that pace any day you want from him. Same with every bowler. Look at even Aaron, someday he struggles to clock 145, some day he hits 150K easily.  Same is with Umesh and every other bowler who has played. Possible, Holding might have bowled quicker in actually matches and on that day, he could not do that or possible he might have slowed down like or own Munna form 147 quickest to struggling to hit 135. Another example, Sreesanth, sometimes, he has been bowling in 145s, quickest at 149 and other times, he struggle to clock 135.

So all bowlers struggled to get 140 mark which is nothing from today s point of view, there was 1 Afghan bowler who too had few balls above 140

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in 1979 they were measured at bowlers end, release speed.

I have searched the whole net with no definite answer

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[Vilander]

I have seen Shoaib doing it live on one of India's tour to Pakistan and it was not his first spell or first over, but later in the innings. He was clocking 157-158K. Dravid was batting solidly.

may be man I would take your word for it cause if it comes from you I would trust it, but since its Pakistan I might have discounted it from my memory as dodgy.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Vilander

[rkt.india]

So all bowlers struggled to get 140 mark which is nothing from today s point of view, there was 1 Afghan bowler who too had few balls above 140

 

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I have searched the whole net with no definite answer

 

Sent from my HM NOTE 1LTE using Tapatalk

 

 

So you think fast bowlers haven't improved their pace in decades? 

[Vilander]

So all bowlers struggled to get 140 mark which is nothing from today s point of view, there was 1 Afghan bowler who too had few balls above 140

 

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I have searched the whole net with no definite answer

 

Sent from my HM NOTE 1LTE using Tapatalk

 

 

oh, I read it in the article you quoted in this thread. Its release speed.

[express bowling]

@ singhbling

Study the articles below. What do you have to say about the discrepancy of about 9.5 k in Lillee's fastest ball in the 1975 competition  ?   He supposedly claimed in his book that he bowled a fastest of 148.5 whereas his actual fastest was 139 k.              

 

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/120260.html

On that one day in Perth, Jeff Thomson had recorded release speeds on 200/400 frames per second photosonic cameras of 159.49kph and 160.45kph (99.7mph), less than 0.3mph short of the magical 100mph mark. In fact, two men considered in the 'Fastest Ever' category, Michael Holding (148.54kph) and Andy Roberts (150.67kph) were both 10kph slower than Thomson on that day and an unwell Dennis Lillee (139.03kph) was 20kph slower. As an interesting side point, Jeff Thomson was also recorded by conventional radar the following year at 160.58kph to win a 'fastest bowler' competition.

 

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283875.html

1975 Study

The following speeds were measured at the WACA ground in Perth in December 1975, using "very accurate high speed cameras" and reported in the book "The Art of Fast Bowling" by DK Lillee, pp 27-30.

 

Player	Kph	Notes
Jeff Thomson	160.45
Jeff Thomson	160.45
Andy Roberts	159.49
Michael Holding	150.67	age 22
Dennis Lillee	148.54

Edited January 11, 2016 by express bowling

[Singh bling]

oh, I read it in the article you quoted in this thread. Its release speed.

That was 1975,76  measurements , Those are not disputed , they are  , only in 1979 bowlers were measured quite slow

[express bowling]

Search Vinay Kumar 147 kph  , you will find that Vinay hit 147 in 2013 IPL, and Jeff always claim that he was measured at batsmen's end and he could had been measured 180 kph( which is rubbish) with modern technique

There are many many bowlers who have bowled a few 145 k + deliveries in their lives.  In-fact, most fast and fast-medium bowlers have as also a few medium-fast ones....especially in LOIs.

What is important is what speed ranges they bowl day in and day out in matches.....that is their normal pace range.