Areas where Kohli is better than Tendulkar as a player.

[Muloghonto]

2 minutes ago, kira said:

Lol only kids who have never seen sachin's peak in the late 90s can rate Kohli above Sachin, I pity you kids, you missed the prime of GOAT

Yep. Sachin was averaging 50+ in test cricket when we had only Lara, Steve Waugh & Andy Flower average 50+. Virat is just about to average 50+ in tests in an era where we've had over a dozen and half people average 50+. 

Same goes in ODIs where Tendy averaged 40+ and strike rate 80+ in an era when pretty much only Lara could match that.

 

[narenpande1]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

I will give you fitness, but Kohli is not better than Tendulkar in either pressure scenario or as attitude. Tendulkar's numbers in world cup elimination matches or any elimination matches in ODI was head and shoulders above his time, as well as in Tests, his record in 3rd,4th & 5th tests are exemplary, which indicates that he does well under pressure, when the series is still alive.

 

As far as attitude goes, i always prefer a player (be it cricket or otherwise), who are serene and don't let trash talk bother them, than fiery people who spend energy on the trash talk & mind games. Its always most optimal if you don't get bothered by it and shrug it off, because it always takes less effort, energy & concentration than 'giving it back'. Not to mention, no team is perfect and when you are in the business of 'giving it back', you always end up looking like a fool when the result doesnt back up your mouth (which is inevitable).

 

 

Except that you are wrong on all counts.....

 

As a teenager Kohli had the guts to score and bail out his team on the day of his father's demise. He waited till he rescued his team before cremating his dad. This requires balls of titanium. You don't realize how blessed India is to have a player who is so committed to the cause of the team.

 

In International sport you have to be a tough b@$tard if you have to lead your team to excellence.

 

I am not a fan of Ganguly's hypocrisy on many occasions. But credit where its due, with the very same pool between 1999 and 2000 between SRT's 2nd failed stint and Ganguly's long helm post 2000- Ganguly turned it around by being tough as nails and upping the teams aspirations and aggressively pursing them without taking a backward step in any way.

 

Gone were the days when Indian players would take any BS. And the results are there for all to see.

 

Regarding attitude, you would NEVER EVER see Kohli talk about his own numbers or show any interest what so ever in them.

 

He just wants India to win every possible game, at all costs. And we are truely blessed to have someone like him.

 

Nobody can deny Tendulkar's obsession with his personal stats and very nauseating obsession with the 3 figure mark for himself.

 

The media and his PR also had a role in inflaming this, it became disgusting to see the obsession with one man's personal records in what is essentially a goddamn TEAM GAME.

 

Everything had to be perfect for " his numbers ". A dream test retirement set up of perfect 200 tests at his home ground.

 

A wait till 100, International 100's are completed. 

 

What  business did he have to continue playing in ODIS till 2013 after the 2011 WC victory, when there was no way he was playing the 2015 world cup ???? He showed his real hand there.

 

He was just playing on to give himself the best chance to accomplish a personal milestone ) of 100 100's, whichever format it came in.

 

This was the same unprofessional attitude by Kapil Dev who kept on playing to break Hadlee's record. His last few years as a test bowler

were truly embarrassing as he was even getting hammered by Sri Lankan tail enders for six.

 

Tendulkar carried on the same unprofessional attitude of going on and on ..till a personal landmark is not achieved,

 

BTW, this sort  of attitude does not work in any other professional team sport.

 

You give your best peak 12-14 years for India and make way for others...there are lot of people waiting in the wings 

and one needs to put INDIA FIRST all the time. 

 

With Kohli, you will not see all this bullshit. He is an out and out professional and ONLY plays for the team

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2016 by narenpande1

[Muloghonto]

2 minutes ago, narenpande1 said:

Except that you are wrong on all counts.....

 

As a teenager Kohli had the guts to score and bail out his team on the day of his father's demise. He waited till he rescued his team before cremating his dad. This requires balls of titanium. You don't realize how blessed India is to have a player who is so committed to the cause of the team.

 

In International sport you have to be a tough b@$tard if you have to lead your team to excellence.

 

I am not a fan of Ganguly's hypocrisy on many occasions. But credit where its due, with the very same pool between 1999 and 2000 between SRT's 2nd failed stint and Ganguly's long helm post 2000- Ganguly turned it around by being tough as nails and upping the teams aspirations and aggressively pursing them without taking a backward step in any way.

 

Gone were the days when Indian players would take any BS. And the results are there for all to see.

 

Regarding attitude, you would NEVER EVER see Kohli talk about his own numbers or show any interest what so ever in them.

 

He just wants India to win every possible game, at all costs. And we are truely blessed to have someone like him.

 

Nobody can deny Tendulkar's obsession with his personal stats and very nauseating obsession with the 3 figure mark for himself.

 

The media and his PR also had a role in inflaming this, it became disgusting to see the obsession with one man's personal records in what is essentially a goddamn TEAM GAME.

 

Everything had to be perfect for " his numbers ". A dream test retirement set up of perfect 200 tests at his home ground.

 

A wait till 100, International 100's are completed. 

 

What  business did he have to continue playing in ODIS till 2013 after the 2011 WC victory, when there was no way he was playing the 2015 world cup ???? He showed his real hand there.

 

He was just playing on to give himself the best chance to accomplish a personal milestone ) of 100 100's, whichever format it came in.

 

This was the same unprofessional attitude by Kapil Dev who kept on playing to break Hadlee's record. His last few years as a test bowler

were truly embarrassing as he was even getting hammered by Sri Lankan tail enders for six.

 

Tendulkar carried on the same unprofessional attitude of going on and on ..till a personal landmark is not achieved,

 

BTW, this sort  of attitude does not work in any other professional team sport.

 

You give your best peak 12-14 years for India and make way for others...there are lot of people waiting in the wings 

and one needs to put INDIA FIRST all the time. 

 

With Kohli, you will not see all this bullshit. He is an out and out professional and ONLY plays for the team

 

 

 

1.You must be young, because Tendulkar too, cracked a century the day his dad died. 

2. Tendulkar never talked about his numbers either, so i don't know where the comparison comes from.

3. The ones who don't let trash-talk get to them are a lot tougher than those who fight it. The latter wastes energy, the former is just unaffected by it. Always will go for the serene ones like Tendulkar than fiery ones like Virat any day of the week, as far as attitude goes.

4. If Tendy was obsessed with numbers and scoring 100s, he wouldn't have the most scores of 90-100 in the world.

5. You are a fool if you think 99% of professional sportsmen will retire because they are not at the top of their game. Sportsmen play sports coz they enjoy it. They don't play it to become the greatest or such, those are byproducts.

 

[narenpande1]

2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

1.You must be young, because Tendulkar too, cracked a century the day his dad died. 

2. Tendulkar never talked about his numbers either, so i don't know where the comparison comes from.

3. The ones who don't let trash-talk get to them are a lot tougher than those who fight it. The latter wastes energy, the former is just unaffected by it. Always will go for the serene ones like Tendulkar than fiery ones like Virat any day of the week, as far as attitude goes.

4. If Tendy was obsessed with numbers and scoring 100s, he wouldn't have the most scores of 90-100 in the world.

5. You are a fool if you think 99% of professional sportsmen will retire because they are not at the top of their game. Sportsmen play sports coz they enjoy it. They don't play it to become the greatest or such, those are byproducts.

 

You better watch your words, you cant mask your ignorance by talking bullshit. You have been exposed of fudging facts on other threads as well.

 

Tendulkar missed the Zimbabwe game in the 99 World Cup because his father died that day and he left for India. We lost that game. 

Like always you are ZILCH on facts.

 

You must be watching some other sport if you think Tendulkar never talked about his numbers. Even the most diehard SRT fan cannot

decline that. But you are different, you come in the ignorant/intellectually dishonest category.

 

Well the India cap is not his personal property. It is not about HIS enjoyment. It is about what is BEST for India.

 

It must be a remarkable coincidence that " his enjoyment" ended after he scored his 100th 100 in a laboring century against Bangladesh, a game we lost very narrowly and got kicked out of Asia cup.

 

Its hard to reason with an intellectually dishonest person like you who is seldom right on facts

[SUMO]

kohli has to run marathon like usain bolt to match sachin

[Muloghonto]

2 minutes ago, narenpande1 said:

You better watch your words, you cant mask your ignorance by talking bullshit. You have been exposed of fudging facts on other threads as well.

 

Tendulkar missed the Zimbabwe game in the 99 World Cup because his father died that day and he left for India. We lost that game. 

Like always you are ZILCH on facts.

 

You must be watching some other sport if you think Tendulkar never talked about his numbers. Even the most diehard SRT fan cannot

decline that. But you are different, you come in the ignorant/intellectually dishonest category.

 

Well the India cap is not his personal property. It is not about HIS enjoyment. It is about what is BEST for India.

 

It must be a remarkable coincidence that " his enjoyment" ended after he scored his 100th 100 in a laboring century against Bangladesh, a game we lost very narrowly and got kicked out of Asia cup.

 

Its hard to reason with an intellectually dishonest person like you who is seldom right on facts

1. So show us some interviews of Tendulkar where he talks about his numbers

2. He went back right after his dad's death & scored a century.

3. Indian cap is his personal property till the selectors say otherwise- so goes for every other player. Players are playing first and foremost, for their own gratification, not for you to gloat about their accomplishments. The job of picking the best team is that of the coach/captain/selector. 

4. Show us evidence that his 'enjoyment' ended with his 100th 100- unless its something you just made up.

 

[MCcricket]

4 minutes ago, SUMO said:

kohli has to run marathon like usain bolt to match sachin

Completely untrue, Tendulkar career span was almost quarter of a century because he was picked so early n a  genius is not based on endurance in a cricket game career wise like a marathon race or decathlon but Audacity's of strokeless, winning games single handedly, strokeplay and other things, if Cook break Tendulkar record will he be on , he!l no that is just endurance n is poor to compare.

Virat has time frame wise shattered most records , Tendulkar legacy unfortunately has been his longevity n sheer number of runs owing to that it should have been strokeplay, domination, winning games n he has some but not all like being a match winning test player or a legend in terms of effectiveness not in numbers n stats 

[narenpande1]

9 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

1. So show us some interviews of Tendulkar where he talks about his numbers

2. He went back right after his dad's death & scored a century.

3. Indian cap is his personal property till the selectors say otherwise- so goes for every other player. Players are playing first and foremost, for their own gratification, not for you to gloat about their accomplishments. The job of picking the best team is that of the coach/captain/selector. 

4. Show us evidence that his 'enjoyment' ended with his 100th 100- unless its something you just made up.

 

What an intellectually dishonest coverup ..after you got the fact blatantly wrong. Those following this thread can see how you change colors.

 

Were you not witness to that Multan test drama ? Do you even follow Indian cricket ? Have you read John Wright's Indian Summers' ?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/story/255244.html

 

John Wright is one of the nicest diplomatic guys going around..but those with some common sense can learn a lot about Tendulkar's mindset if you read Wrights book.

 

Luckily Kumble bowled beautifully on that flat Multan wicket, else Tendulkar's greed for his personal milestone could have cost us a win and the series.

 

This was something that was out in the open like a can of worms. But nobody can deny that he obsesses his personal numbers 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2016 by narenpande1

[Muloghonto]

3 minutes ago, MCcricket said:

Completely untrue, Tendulkar career span was almost quarter of a century because he was picked so early n a  genius is not based on endurance in a cricket game career wise like a marathon race or decathlon but Audacity's of strokeless, winning games single handedly, strokeplay and other things, if Cook break Tendulkar record will he be on , he!l no that is just endurance n is poor to compare.

Virat has time frame wise shattered most records , Tendulkar legacy unfortunately has been his longevity n sheer number of runs owing to that it should have been strokeplay, domination, winning games n he has some but not all like being a match winning test player or a legend in terms of effectiveness not in numbers n stats 

 

I will just note how silly 'mach-winning' and 'non-matchwinning' comparisons are

 

The 153* that Lara scored against Aussies in the 4th innings is classified the best test innings of all-time. The 136 Tendulkar scored in the 4th innings of against the likes of Wasim-Waqar-Saqlain doesnt even make the top 100.
Yet, the difference wasnt any other person than Healy. At 130s, Lara offered a regulation catch off of McGrath, which Healy put down. He went on to make 153* and play the 'best innings ever'. Tendulkar offered a catch also in his 130s and it wasn't put down. result : not even in the top 100. 

 

[SUMO]

1 minute ago, MCcricket said:

Completely untrue, Tendulkar career span was almost quarter of a century because he was picked so early n a  genius is not based on endurance in a cricket game career wise like a marathon race or decathlon but Audacity's of strokeless, winning games single handedly, strokeplay and other things, if Cook break Tendulkar record will he be on , he!l no that is just endurance n is poor to compare.

Virat has time frame wise shattered most records , Tendulkar legacy unfortunately has been his longevity n sheer number of runs owing to that it should have been strokeplay, domination, winning games n he has some but not all like being a match winning test player or a legend in terms of effectiveness not in numbers n stats 

177 tests 14700 runs 57 avg 51 hundreds ...  a peak longer than many ATG's entire career
wasn't that mind boggling ... he combined brilliance with endurance, speed with stamina 

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, narenpande1 said:

What an intellectually dishonest coverup ..after you got the fact blatantly wrong. Those following this thread can see how you change colors.

 

Were you not witness to that Multan test drama ? Do you even follow Indian cricket ? Have you read John Wright's Indian Summers' ?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/story/255244.html

 

John Wright is one of the nicest diplomatic guys going around..but those with some common sense can learn a lot about Tendulkar's mindset if you read Wrights book.

 

Luckily Kumble bowled beautifully on that flat Multan wicket, else Tendulkar's greed for his personal milestone could have cost us a win and the series.

 

This was something that was out in the open like a can of worms. But nobody can deny that he obsesses his personal numbers 

 

 

You are talking a lot of nonsense that you are peddling as fact.

So again, i will ask : PROVE your random claims. 

Every single batsman in the world would be upset if the team declares with them on 194*. Find me one who were okay with it. Bradman got run out on 299 and he never spoke to that tail-ender again. 

 

You claimed Tendy talks about his numbers. Show us where he does so.

You claimed that Tendy cares about his record- show us where he said so.

 

Ofcourse i deny he was obsessed with personal numbers because i've never heard him speak of his numbers before the team result or for that matter of fact, talk about his numbers, period. 

 

I also see Tendulkar far more mentally tougher than Kohli, because its far tougher to be not affected by trash-talk than get all hot and bothered and 'answer back' . 

Give me a sportsman who can maintain his focus despite being heckled than the one who goes red in face and has to 'respond' any day of the week.

 

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, narenpande1 said:

What an intellectually dishonest coverup ..after you got the fact blatantly wrong. Those following this thread can see how you change colors.

 

Were you not witness to that Multan test drama ? Do you even follow Indian cricket ? Have you read John Wright's Indian Summers' ?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/story/255244.html

 

John Wright is one of the nicest diplomatic guys going around..but those with some common sense can learn a lot about Tendulkar's mindset if you read Wrights book.

 

Luckily Kumble bowled beautifully on that flat Multan wicket, else Tendulkar's greed for his personal milestone could have cost us a win and the series.

 

This was something that was out in the open like a can of worms. But nobody can deny that he obsesses his personal numbers 

 

 

The only thing that can be held against Sachin is him not retiring from Odis after the World Cup.

 

apart from that 100 100 game which was a shock upset against Bangladesh even though we scored 270+ and I still think our trundlers messed up as much as Sachin did but open for debate, show me 1 game where we lost due to Sachin not trying for the team and going for personal glory?

[MCcricket]

3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

I will just note how silly 'mach-winning' and 'non-matchwinning' comparisons are

 

The 153* that Lara scored against Aussies in the 4th innings is classified the best test innings of all-time. The 136 Tendulkar scored in the 4th innings of against the likes of Wasim-Waqar-Saqlain doesnt even make the top 100.
Yet, the difference wasnt any other person than Healy. At 130s, Lara offered a regulation catch off of McGrath, which Healy put down. He went on to make 153* and play the 'best innings ever'. Tendulkar offered a catch also in his 130s and it wasn't put down. result : not even in the top 100. 

 

The first test that Virat captained in Australia when Dhoni chickened out mid tour on short notice he scored two centuries in both innings and nearly one the game for India n those R the innings talked Bout and remembered n Sachin for his talent n Skill has a very low percentage of those in tests if at all

[narenpande1]

7 minutes ago, MCcricket said:

Completely untrue, Tendulkar career span was almost quarter of a century because he was picked so early n a  genius is not based on endurance in a cricket game career wise like a marathon race or decathlon but Audacity's of strokeless, winning games single handedly, strokeplay and other things, if Cook break Tendulkar record will he be on , he!l no that is just endurance n is poor to compare.

Virat has time frame wise shattered most records , Tendulkar legacy unfortunately has been his longevity n sheer number of runs owing to that it should have been strokeplay, domination, winning games n he has some but not all like being a match winning test player or a legend in terms of effectiveness not in numbers n stats 

Amen to that.....

 

Sangakkara has played only 15 years of test cricket for Lanka. 10 years less than SRTs famed 25 years.  Ended up scoring 12,500 Test runs. Career Avg of 57+. 

 

He was also a wicketkeeper and captain. 

 

Thats how it should be - give your best years to your country. Sangakkara could have gone on and on too..he was in super form when he retired and being a wicketkeeper he was very fit. he could have played on as a pure test batter and broken Tendulkar's record. 

 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

3 minutes ago, MCcricket said:

The first test that Virat captained in Australia when Dhoni chickened out mid tour on short notice he scored two centuries in both innings and nearly one the game for India n those R the innings talked Bout and remembered n Sachin for his talent n Skill has a very low percentage of those in tests if at all

Those who think batsmen 'nearly win/win games' in tests, don't know the basic of test batting. Tests are not won by scoring more runs than the opposition. They are won by taking 20 wickets for less runs than the opposition scores. So to call batsmen 'matchwinning' in tests is as ridiculous as saying 'goalies are match-winning' in Soccer/hockey etc.

 

[narenpande1]

2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

You are talking a lot of nonsense that you are peddling as fact.

So again, i will ask : PROVE your random claims. 

Every single batsman in the world would be upset if the team declares with them on 194*. Find me one who were okay with it. Bradman got run out on 299 and he never spoke to that tail-ender again. 

 

You claimed Tendy talks about his numbers. Show us where he does so.

You claimed that Tendy cares about his record- show us where he said so.

 

Ofcourse i deny he was obsessed with personal numbers because i've never heard him speak of his numbers before the team result or for that matter of fact, talk about his numbers, period. 

 

I also see Tendulkar far more mentally tougher than Kohli, because its far tougher to be not affected by trash-talk than get all hot and bothered and 'answer back' . 

Give me a sportsman who can maintain his focus despite being heckled than the one who goes red in face and has to 'respond' any day of the week.

 

 

Are you seriously that senile??? Can;t you read between the lines ?

 

I spoke about Tendulkar's second failed stint as captain. He failed in his first too. Do you understand cricket enough to know that 

captaincy has many added pressures ? 

 

Did you even read that article that picks a few lines from John Wright's books about how Tendulkar played very slow from 170s ???

 

Can't bother spoon feeding, if you dont have neither have the intelligence nor honesty .

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, narenpande1 said:

Amen to that.....

 

Sangakkara has played only 15 years of test cricket for Lanka. 10 years less than SRTs famed 25 years.  Ended up scoring 12,500 Test runs. Career Avg of 57+. 

 

He was also a wicketkeeper and captain. 

 

Thats how it should be - give your best years to your country. Sangakkara could have gone on and on too..he was in super form when he retired and being a wicketkeeper he was very fit. he could have played on as a pure test batter and broken Tendulkar's record. 

 

 

 

A lot of players have scored runs at a faster rate in test cricket because India didnt play much test cricket in the 90s. Don't forget that.

Sobers played only 93 tests in 20 years. In 20 years, cook will play 240-250 test minimum.

Tendulkar only played 46 tests in his first 8 years. And he did not miss a test during that period too.

 

So obviously, if you play 10-15 tests per year than 5-6, you will score runs at a faster rate per year.

 

[MCcricket]

For more the 60 % of his career Tendulkar was not even half the batsmen he was before, he had given up strokes which were mark of his class n became a run aggregator, yes he had a elbow injury but that was not bad enough, Tendulkar was burdened very earlier in his career with thoughts he will break most runs, most 100 n so n so n lost his genius in the quest to amass runs n have the longest career but lost his stroke play , audacity, dominTing instinct in test and also it's a known fact that most cricketers in his era would choose Dravid over Tendulkar to bat for their lives , Tendulkar simply did not do justice to his test career in terms of love to both yes, but in terms of effective performance no

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, narenpande1 said:

 

Are you seriously that senile??? Can;t you read between the lines ?

 

I spoke about Tendulkar's second failed stint as captain. He failed in his first too. Do you understand cricket enough to know that 

captaincy has many added pressures ? 

 

Did you even read that article that picks a few lines from John Wright's books about how Tendulkar played very slow from 170s ???

 

Can't bother spoon feeding, if you dont have neither have the intelligence nor honesty .

 

I don't read between the lines, because that is a stupid thing to do- you don't know these people personally, so 'reading between the lines' of people you don't know, is just personal assumptions. One day when you get older, you will realize it too.

I don't think captaincy added any more pressure on Tendulkar- the entire nation's hopes were on him from the first day, you cant add more to that pressure.

Also, whats 'failure' as a captaincy by Tendulkar's standard is a greater scoring record than most batsmen have in the first place.

Whether Tendulkar played slowly or not, is irrelevant- whether a batsman plays slowly or not, is fundamentally determined by how well the bowlers are bowling. Sometimes bowlers bowl a good spell and batsmen crawl even when they are 100+ and sometimes bowlers bowl crap and batsmen go rollicking from the very start. 

You assume too much and fill in the gaps too much by what you think, than what are facts.

 

[Muloghonto]

2 minutes ago, MCcricket said:

For more the 60 % of his career Tendulkar was not even half the batsmen he was before, he had given up strokes which were mark of his class n became a run aggregator, yes he had a elbow injury but that was not bad enough, Tendulkar was burdened very earlier in his career with thoughts he will break most runs, most 100 n so n so n lost his genius in the quest to amass runs n have the longest career but lost his stroke play , audacity, dominTing instinct in test and also it's a known fact that most cricketers in his era would choose Dravid over Tendulkar to bat for their lives , Tendulkar simply did not do justice to his test career in terms of love to both yes, but in terms of effective performance no

he curtailed his dashing stroke play after the arrival of Sehwag. Because back in the 90s, India did not have batting, particularly overseas, to play a tough & steady game. So he was the mindset of 'score as much before getting out coz no other batsman is gonna hang around with him'. 

With the emergence of Sehwag, he could safely relinquish stroke play to Sehwag and do what all test batsmen are supposed to do- not give away their wicket.