Tuk-tuk thread: List of low S/R starters (90s style batsmen mode) in current ODI team

[kira]

12 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Gangu made the greatest ODI opener in ODI history drop down to #4 so he could still take advantage of field restrictions.  Let's not go there.  Gangu-love is OK, but hagiographical falsehoods are just that.  Falsehoods.  

Yeah let's not go there and expose your gangu-HATE  Although it is already exposed 

Edited January 24, 2017 by kira

[sandeep]

37 minutes ago, kira said:

Yeah let's not go there and expose your gangu-HATE  Although it is already exposed 

hate? 

 

yeah, ok whatever floats your boat.  I have a lot of love for Gangu, and his century at the Gabba in a drawn test remains one of my favorites because it set up my favorite away tour of all time.  I have no willful blindness problems when it comes to our players.  Whether its Gangu, Veeru, or even Tendy or VK.  If that's "hate" in your perspective, carry on tiger.  Maybe some day you will grow up and see that the world is not just in black and white.  

[kira]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

hate? 

 

yeah, ok whatever floats your boat.  I have a lot of love for Gangu, and his century at the Gabba in a drawn test remains one of my favorites because it set up my favorite away tour of all time.  I have no willful blindness problems when it comes to our players.  Whether its Gangu, Veeru, or even Tendy or VK.  If that's "hate" in your perspective, carry on tiger.  Maybe some day you will grow up and see that the world is not just in black and white.  

Like I said, let's not go there, let's not expose your delusions and false stories about ganguly that you have concocted in your mind anymore, it will only be embarrass you more

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, kira said:

Like I said, let's not go there, let's not expose your delusions and false stories about ganguly that you have concocted in your mind anymore, it will only be embarrass you more

Got any facts to back up your BS?  or just teeny-bopper emoticons?  

[kira]

Just now, sandeep said:

Got any facts to back up your BS?  or just teeny-bopper emoticons?  

You mean facts like your BS about ganguly wanting to take advantage of field restrictions and making sachin bat at 4? Did you read ganguly's mind? 

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, kira said:

You mean facts like your BS about ganguly wanting to take advantage of field restrictions and making sachin bat at 4? Did you read ganguly's mind? 

Why else would you make the greatest ODI opener in history bat outside of his comfort zone?  Gangu was at least honest enough about it, (unlike some blind fans) and if it had to be one of them to drop down, Tendy would do better than him in the middle order, and since he was captain, he got his way until the 2003 WC.  Post that WC, given the overwhelming evidence and Tendy going on record saying that he's not comfortable in the MO, and really prefers opening, Gangu reverted to the #3 spot - and did OK there.  

[kira]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

Why else would you make the greatest ODI opener in history bat outside of his comfort zone?  Gangu was at least honest enough about it, (unlike some blind fans) and if it had to be one of them to drop down, Tendy would do better than him in the middle order, and since he was captain, he got his way until the 2003 WC.  Post that WC, given the overwhelming evidence and Tendy going on record saying that he's not comfortable in the MO, and really prefers opening, Gangu reverted to the #3 spot - and did OK there.  

Why else? Maybe to strengthen the middle order, clearly ganguly could have easily pushed sehwag down the order and kept playing as an opener even after 2003 if he wanted, ganguly scored 19 centuries as an opener and only 3 on other positions, if ganguly was that desperate and selfish, he could have easily manipulated the team to keep himself as opener and continue making centuries till the end of his career but he didn't. It is very disingenuous and quite franking insulting to ganguly if you think he was doing this for his personal gains, like you said, stick to facts and not make up stories to insult one of the greatest odi players in the world.

[sandeep]

15 minutes ago, kira said:

Why else? Maybe to strengthen the middle order, clearly ganguly could have easily pushed sehwag down the order and kept playing as an opener even after 2003 if he wanted, ganguly scored 19 centuries as an opener and only 3 on other positions, if ganguly was that desperate and selfish, he could have easily manipulated the team to keep himself as opener and continue making centuries till the end of his career but he didn't. It is very disingenuous and quite franking insulting to ganguly if you think he was doing this for his personal gains, like you said, stick to facts and not make up stories to insult one of the greatest odi players in the world.

Banjo, Chai se zyaada kitli garam.  Chillax, you are getting overly offended for flimsy reasons.  Even great players have and had their issues, its no disrespect to point those out when relevant.  For eg.  I have no qualms with posters who point out that Tendy used to tighten up in certain match situations - he wanted it too badly to disprove those "not a match-winner myths" and tried to play within himself too often - which invariably resulted in him getting out, and feeding that myth.  Stating this is not a "disrespect" to Tendy.  He was human, and had his flaws.  Just like Dada 'blink every 3 seconds' ganguly.  See, you can't claim I didn't watch him bat!  

 

Anyway, no need to derail this thread - which correctly identifies slow starts by India's ODI batsmen as an important issue that's holding India back from re-assuming its rightful place as the best ODI batting lineup in the world.  And once Mr. 264 regains fitness, he needs to stop playing in the "dada' method, with poor strike rotation and overly dependent on boundaries - and instead apply his all-world talunts at boundary hitting, sooner rather than later.  

[express bowling]

ODI Strike-rates of batsmen in the Ganguly-era who have batted in the top  4  and scored more than 2000 runs   ( finishers from No.5 to No.7  are expected to have higher SRs )

 

39 batsmen out of  55 have SRs of 76 or less

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0
SV Carlisle (ZIM)	1997-2005	71	70	3	2120	121*	31.64	3406	62.24	3	9	7
WW Hinds (WI)	1999-2006	82	80	5	2382	127*	31.76	3644	65.36	5	13	6
Yasir Hameed (PAK)	2003-2007	55	55	1	2027	127*	37.53	3024	67.03	3	12	2
MS Atapattu (SL)	1996-2007	224	220	22	7588	132*	38.32	11295	67.18	11	54	12
ADR Campbell (ZIM)	1996-2003	111	111	5	3418	124	32.24	5084	67.23	6	21	4
N Hussain (ENG)	1997-2003	67	67	3	2023	115	31.60	2985	67.77	1	16	4
HH Dippenaar (Afr/SA)	1999-2007	79	76	13	3040	125*	48.25	4442	68.43	4	24	3
Younis Khan (PAK)	2000-2007	70	70	4	2071	144	31.37	3026	68.44	3	13	6
DJ Cullinan (SA)	1996-2000	73	70	5	2033	124	31.27	2955	68.79	2	12	4
AJ Stewart (ENG)	1996-2003	71	71	4	2215	116	33.05	3193	69.37	3	12	5
GW Flower (ZIM)	1996-2004	131	128	5	4164	140	33.85	5990	69.51	4	27	10
R Dravid (Asia/INDIA)	1996-2007	228	220	18	7776	153	38.49	11123	69.90	10	58	11
MG Bevan (AUS)	1996-2004	61	55	16	2330	108*	59.74	3332	69.92	3	18	1
S Chanderpaul (WI)	1996-2007	107	106	11	3829	150	40.30	5468	70.02	7	24	2
SP Fleming (NZ)	1996-2007	222	215	17	6571	134*	33.18	9278	70.82	7	39	15
NV Knight (ENG)	1996-2003	100	100	10	3637	125*	40.41	5085	71.52	5	25	6
JH Kallis (Afr/ICC/SA)	1997-2007	224	217	40	8165	139	46.12	11398	71.63	13	56	14
VVS Laxman (INDIA)	1998-2006	77	76	6	2268	131	32.40	3128	72.50	6	10	3
G Kirsten (SA)	1996-2003	138	138	13	4903	133*	39.22	6756	72.57	8	37	10
Inzamam-ul-Haq (PAK)	1996-2007	140	138	16	4646	123	38.08	6378	72.84	6	32	10
NJ Astle (NZ)	1996-2007	192	186	13	6238	145*	36.05	8536	73.07	13	39	18
RR Sarwan (WI)	2001-2007	98	93	18	3304	115*	44.05	4479	73.76	3	21	5
SC Ganguly (Asia/INDIA)	1996-2007	297	288	21	11094	183	41.55	15037	73.77	22	70	16
Mohammad Yousuf (Asia/PAK)	1999-2007	136	135	22	5514	141*	48.79	7423	74.28	10	40	8
SO Tikolo (Afr/KENYA)	1996-2007	85	84	8	2284	111	30.05	3058	74.68	2	16	7
M Azharuddin (INDIA)	1996-2000	87	83	11	2733	153*	37.95	3655	74.77	3	21	2
KC Sangakkara (Asia/ICC/SL)	2001-2007	148	142	13	4856	138*	37.64	6489	74.83	6	37	6
RS Kaluwitharana (SL)	1996-2004	100	100	5	2461	102*	25.90	3272	75.21	2	19	13
ME Waugh (AUS)	1996-2002	126	125	10	4724	173	41.07	6277	75.25	10	27	7
AJ Strauss (ENG)	2003-2007	77	76	7	2213	152	32.07	2929	75.55	2	14	5
DR Martyn (AUS)	1998-2006	125	119	31	3888	144*	44.18	5073	76.64	5	29	8
Shoaib Malik (PAK)	2002-2007	55	54	3	2078	143	40.74	2701	76.93	5	12	1
DPMD Jayawardene (Asia/SL)	1998-2007	164	156	18	5157	128	37.36	6700	76.97	8	31	10
A Flower (ZIM)	1996-2003	116	113	7	4056	145	38.26	5128	79.09	3	34	11
Ijaz Ahmed (PAK)	1996-2000	101	100	8	3498	139*	38.02	4413	79.26	6	22	10
CH Gayle (ICC/WI)	1999-2007	164	160	10	6035	153*	40.23	7493	80.54	15	32	14
PA de Silva (SL)	1996-2003	105	102	14	3615	134	41.07	4488	80.54	6	25	8
Saeed Anwar (PAK)	1996-2003	150	149	11	5740	194	41.59	7108	80.75	12	32	8
ML Hayden (AUS)	2000-2007	133	132	14	5501	181*	46.61	6793	80.98	10	31	8
RT Ponting (AUS/ICC)	1996-2007	250	246	29	9795	164	45.13	12086	81.04	21	59	12
BC Lara (ICC/WI)	1996-2007	147	140	14	4807	156	38.15	5899	81.48	10	26	12
GC Smith (Afr/SA)	2002-2007	122	120	7	4524	134*	40.03	5511	82.09	6	31	7
HH Gibbs (SA)	1996-2007	208	202	15	6800	175	36.36	8245	82.47	18	29	21
ME Trescothick (ENG)	2000-2006	123	122	6	4335	137	37.37	5087	85.21	12	21	13
SR Tendulkar (INDIA)	1996-2007	286	279	24	11778	186*	46.18	13637	86.36	33	60	13
ST Jayasuriya (Asia/SL)	1996-2007	290	288	15	9903	189	36.27	10749	92.12	23	52	22
V Sehwag (Asia/ICC/INDIA)	2001-2007	160	158	6	5021	130	33.03	5152	97.45	8	24	10
AC Gilchrist (AUS/ICC)	1997-2007	249	249	7	8856	172	36.59	9072	97.61	15	50	16
Shahid Afridi (Asia/PAK)	1996-2007	164	164	2	3972	109	24.51	3784	104.96	4	24	17

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=4;batting_positionmin1=1;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_strike_rate;orderbyad=reverse;qualmin1=2000;qualval1=runs;size=100;spanmax1=15+Nov+2007;spanmin1=26+May+1996;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

[Rightarmfast]

Thanks Express bhai,Top post! I had guessed it right. But I would love to take a puff of what the OP has been smoking lately!

[Riju23]

Not to make yet another Ganguly post, but I wanted to add that when Tendulkar and Ganguly were a great ODI opening partnership, it's not like we had a deep batting order. Yuvraj had a hot start but he really only found his feet around 2002, and Dhoni became a star several years after that. So given he had a superstar across from him striking at 85+, there wasn't much sense in Ganguly also taking a ton of risks. Made a lot more sense to build a strong opening partnership, make sure he didn't get out in the first 5-6 overs vs Akram, Mcgrath, Donald et al, and then go on to accelerate later and have a great platform for the remaining batsmen. 

[sandeep]

6 hours ago, Riju23 said:

Not to make yet another Ganguly post, but I wanted to add that when Tendulkar and Ganguly were a great ODI opening partnership, it's not like we had a deep batting order. Yuvraj had a hot start but he really only found his feet around 2002, and Dhoni became a star several years after that. So given he had a superstar across from him striking at 85+, there wasn't much sense in Ganguly also taking a ton of risks. Made a lot more sense to build a strong opening partnership, make sure he didn't get out in the first 5-6 overs vs Akram, Mcgrath, Donald et al, and then go on to accelerate later and have a great platform for the remaining batsmen. 

You are not wrong.  But Gangu's problem was he was unable to change his game along with the times - his SR was completely fine in the 90s, even a year or so past that.  But  later, 300+ scores started becoming less rare, and he looked like a batsman out of his era.   Major reason for this was that he just didn't have the knack of strike rotation, and was a poor runner.  He still could hit the quality boundaries, but couldn't bring along the other aspect of his game into the modern era.  This is not to knock him - he was a great ODI batsman.  There was a time in the late 90s where he was scoring ODI centuries in bunches - and was a genuine rival to Tendy for the best opener in the world.  But he didn't sustain it for long.