Hardik pandya as a player

[King Tendulkar]

England were not short sighted with stokes and preserved with home . India will do the same with pandya . Rightly so 

 

theme on icf . Mob calls for young players . When they play after a few games say not good enough and should be dumped . Then  mob calls for next new player and cycle continues 

[sandeep]

14 hours ago, putrevus said:

One thing going for him though is his uncanny knack of taking wickets with innocuous balls

Irfan was a master of that.  I really don't want Pandya to go the Pathan route - i.e. underachieve with respect to his potential.  

 

Agree that he has a lot more to show and lot more to develop as a bowler.  But the critical thing is that we don't really need him to be Kallis-level with his bowling.   If we project optimistically a bit, and if he can hold down the #6 spot with the bat, and contribute 10-12 tight overs with an odd wicket, that is a very important difference maker for our team.  Taking that extra load off of the front line seamers will mean that they can be at max effectiveness.  These little things matter a lot in test cricket.   

[sandeep]

14 hours ago, King Tendulkar said:

England were not short sighted with stokes and preserved with home . India will do the same with pandya . Rightly so 

 

theme on icf . Mob calls for young players . When they play after a few games say not good enough and should be dumped . Then  mob calls for next new player and cycle continues 

Fanbois have an insatiable love for the next fashionable name.  Right now its Krunal Pandya.  Apparently he's already been designated as a can't miss prospect for #6 in ODIs.  Banjo all the guy has done is have one decent IPL season.  And is more injury prone than KL Rahul.

[maniac]

The problem is right now that in a tour like South Africa, where we have struggled traditionally because we just didn’t have that extra good supporting act with the ball or that extra cushion of a specialist bat at say 6 or even 7 is it wise to go with Pandya?

 

This is nothing against Pandya on how he has performed so far but I believe he has still not evolved enough in one particular  aspect of the game. 

 

May be the Srilankan series will be a good opportunity to give him more responsibilities.

 

The challenge here is not managing Pandya but helping him evolve the right way.

 

 

[King Tendulkar]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

The problem is right now that in a tour like South Africa, where we have struggled traditionally because we just didn’t have that extra good supporting act with the ball or that extra cushion of a specialist bat at say 6 or even 7 is it wise to go with Pandya?

 

This is nothing against Pandya on how he has performed so far but I believe he has still not evolved enough in one particular  aspect of the game. 

 

May be the Srilankan series will be a good opportunity to give him more responsibilities.

 

The challenge here is not managing Pandya but helping him evolve the right way.

 

 

Only one thing will help him evolve . Play him 

[maniac]

1 minute ago, King Tendulkar said:

Only one thing will help him evolve . Play him 

Play him by giving him responsibilities is what I am also saying....Not saying not to give him opportunities.

[putrevus]

21 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Irfan was a master of that.  I really don't want Pandya to go the Pathan route - i.e. underachieve with respect to his potential.  

 

Agree that he has a lot more to show and lot more to develop as a bowler.  But the critical thing is that we don't really need him to be Kallis-level with his bowling.   If we project optimistically a bit, and if he can hold down the #6 spot with the bat, and contribute 10-12 tight overs with an odd wicket, that is a very important difference maker for our team.  Taking that extra load off of the front line seamers will mean that they can be at max effectiveness.  These little things matter a lot in test cricket.   

If he can hold with bat on his own at no6 then all his bowling will be bonus, but do you seriously think he is class of VVS or Ganguly as a batsman. If answer is no he need work very hard to become better bowler.

[putrevus]

Sorry I don't believe test cricket that too playing away from home where everyone's role is so vital in improving the dismal overseas record is place to let player grow.

 

That is why I am so disappointed in Kohli not giving him 10 overs and 4 overs regularly. At home they have to experiment and let these guys grow.Pandya also needs to make sure he improves his bowling so much that captain will throw ball to him.

[maniac]

49 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Fanbois have an insatiable love for the next fashionable name.  Right now its Krunal Pandya.  Apparently he's already been designated as a can't miss prospect for #6 in ODIs.  Banjo all the guy has done is have one decent IPL season.  And is more injury prone than KL Rahul.

No one wants Krunal Pandya in the test team but the reason names like Krunal Pandya or even recently Gowtham pop up because we are all in clear agreement that Axar Patel is useless and we need alternatives.

 

As I have pointed out before there are 6-7 slots in our T20 line up that are easily replacable with a new face.

[sandeep]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

If he can hold with bat on his own at no6 then all his bowling will be bonus, but do you seriously think he is class of VVS or Ganguly as a batsman. If answer is no he need work very hard to become better bowler.

He should be working hard on both aspects of his game.   Its way too early to know at what point is he going to "level off" in terms of performances - with the bat and the ball.  Look at the way he can drive the ball through the covers, and straight down the ground - there's enough of batting ability to build a decent test career.  But then there's that massive backlift which just looks immensely shaky.   Bottomline is that its just too early to decide. 

 

And given the fact that the Indian lower order is slowly getting stronger, he may not need to hit the heights of Ganguly or Laxman with the bat either.  This Indian team is getting strong enough and deep enough, to gamble on playing him as the #6 bat, given that we would have potentially Ashwin, Saha and Bhuvi/Jadeja to follow him in the lineup.   

 

Ideally he would have had a bit more "seasoning" before throwing him into the deep end of a SA tour, but you have to work with the schedule you have.   Let's see how it goes.  

[sandeep]

5 minutes ago, maniac said:

No one wants Krunal Pandya in the test team but the reason names like Krunal Pandya or even recently Gowtham pop up because we are all in clear agreement that Axar Patel is useless and we need alternatives.

 

As I have pointed out before there are 6-7 slots in our T20 line up that are easily replacable with a new face.

Of course there are slots that need new faces.   But I would say that Krunal Pandya needs to do more before he earns national selection, especially in ODI cricket.  

 

I'm actually more worried about kids like Siraj - there's so much hype about him, and if he has a couple of bad games early on, the same fanbois will treat him just like they treat Jaydev Unadkat.  

[sandeep]

9 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Sorry I don't believe test cricket that too playing away from home where everyone's role is so vital in improving the dismal overseas record is place to let player grow.

 

That is why I am so disappointed in Kohli not giving him 10 overs and 4 overs regularly. At home they have to experiment and let these guys grow.Pandya also needs to make sure he improves his bowling so much that captain will throw ball to him.

2 extra overs in a T20 at the Kotla aren't going to matter much in his development as a test cricketer though.   They did give him an extended run as a new ball bowler in ODIs, and clearly the Bhuvi-Bumrah combo is a way better option.  Remember that Bumrah hardly bowled with the new ball until recently, he used to come in 1st change....

[wanted_desi]

I want him to bowl a lot more in test matches, once he becomes someone who can give you 10-15 overs and pick a wicket or so in that, he will learn a lot about bowling in ODI. 

 

He is India's Major card for World Cup. O

[maniac]

17 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Of course there are slots that need new faces.   But I would say that Krunal Pandya needs to do more before he earns national selection, especially in ODI cricket.  

 

I'm actually more worried about kids like Siraj - there's so much hype about him, and if he has a couple of bad games early on, the same fanbois will treat him just like they treat Jaydev Unadkat.  

So who are the alternatives then?

 

You are showing so much support for Hardik who himself was thrust into internationals when he was still raw and not a huge body of work behind him and is still not probably still not completely seasoned but worried about Likes of Siraj and Krunal?

 

When there is a slot available names pop

up..simple.

 

again I am not being confrontational just trying to understand your perspective.

 

Unadkut flopped because he just didn’t have it from the start..someone like Zaheer made it because he clearly had it even though he was raw when he started as well but he evolved in to what he became but always had it.

 

People want Siraj or any other young names you hear on ICF as a back up because we have Bumrah and Bhuvi with shami and Umesh now being considered test specialists .

 

I don’t believe anyone has made over the top statements to replace Kohli or for the matter of fact that much ridiculed Rohit Sharma.

Edited November 2, 2017 by maniac

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, wanted_desi said:

I want him to bowl a lot more in test matches, once he becomes someone who can give you 10-15 overs and pick a wicket or so in that, he will learn a lot about bowling in ODI. 

 

He is India's Major card for World Cup. O

I remember posting last year, that Chahal and Hardik Pandya have to be established ODI players, for India to have a decent shot at winning the World Cup.  Good to see, pretty much, the best case scenario coming off with both those cases.

 

@Pollack  Wonder why kuptaan Cheeku is preferring Chahal to Kuldeep these days! 

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, Imtiaz said:

Acha sorry he is the second coming of kallis, the next saviour of india. I shouldnt leave you heartbroken as all hopes are pinned on the fact that finally he might be the man who will save you from embarrassments on one foreign tour.

Gotta love the shamelesses of the greenbros.  Can't even manage to draw a test in Australia in the current millenium, get bowled out for 50 runs twice in home conditions by them, but out here talking trash about the #1 test team.  

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

So who are the alternatives then?

 

You are showing so much support for Hardik who himself was thrust into internationals when he was still raw and not a huge body of work behind him and is still not probably still not completely seasoned but worried about Likes of Siraj and Krunal?

 

When there is a slot available names pop

up..simple.

 

again I am not being confrontational just trying to understand your perspective.

 

Krunal needs to do well in at least one FC season, have some meaningful List A performances, before he can be considered for the ODI team.   His skill-set simply isn't one that warrants a quick debut, unlike his brother - who is a rare pace bowling allrounder prospect.   And even Hardik, first made his way into T20, proved his potential, before getting an ODI cap.  In fact, he was overlooked for the ODI team, when BCCI sent a ODI team to Zimbabwe tour, which was basically an A team.  The one where Faiz Fazal opened the batting for us.  This is when I made the "legendary" thread pointing out that Pandya is a valuable prospect, and arguably a better ODI bowler than Stokes, and should not have been overlooked.   Kicking off our clash, that still blows hot and cold to this day

 

And Krunal is more a Kedar Jadhav than an Axar - he's a batsman first, bowler 2nd.   

 

This is not to say that I'm anti-Krunal.   He may yet prove to be a viable prospect for us.  But its still TBD.   And my 'perspective', since you asked for it, is that he's not a "sure thing" at this point, as a section of posters here like to believe and claim.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by sandeep

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Krunal needs to do well in at least one FC season, have some meaningful List A performances, before he can be considered for the ODI team.   His skill-set simply isn't one that warrants a quick debut, unlike his brother - who is a rare pace bowling allrounder prospect.   And even Hardik, first made his way into T20, proved his potential, before getting an ODI cap.  In fact, he was overlooked for the ODI team, when BCCI sent a ODI team to Zimbabwe tour, which was basically an A team.  The one where Faiz Fazal opened the batting for us.  This is when I made the "legendary" thread pointing out that Pandya is a valuable prospect, and arguably a better ODI bowler than Stokes, and should not have been overlooked.   Kicking off our clash, that still blows hot and cold to this day

 

And Krunal is more a Kedar Jadhav than an Axar - he's a batsman first, bowler 2nd.   

 

This is not to say that I'm anti-Krunal.   He may yet prove to be a viable prospect for us.  But its still TBD.   And my 'perspective', since you asked for it, is that he's not a "sure thing" at this point, as a section of posters here like to believe and claim.

 

 

Oh bhai why are you making my post exclusively about Krunal? If you think Krunal is not ready then fair enough.

 

You have quoted above and even before  sarcastically how people on ICF like to throw  in names of fresh faces or flavor of the month just for the heck of it.

 

The point being addressed here is names like Krunal or Siraj or even Pant popup because those slots for the specific skills they bring in like a spin allrounder,fast bowler or keeper-bat are available currently.

 

Read the below  very carefully now

 

Do you think there is a scope ,or are you in favor rather for a few fresh faces to be introduced  in the side over the period of next few months?

 

If yes. It contradicts with your statement but still I will give it a pass because agreement puts us on the same page.

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

Fanbois have an insatiable love for the next fashionable name. 

So next question is are you having an issue with some specific players like “Pant” “Siraj” “K.Pandya” etc because you think they are not ready for the big leagues and there are better alternatives available?

 

If that is the case please go ahead and quote these names because as someone like me who doesn’t follow enough domestics these days apart from IPL ,I would love to follow the development and progress of the careers of a young talent  like I did with Pant last season or with Shaw and Washington Sundar currently.

 

I was excited to watch the  likes  of Vijay Shankar,Siraj,Sangwan,Kaul,Thampi,Natarajan,Nathu,Avesh etc last IPL because those names were mentioned on this forum often.

 

These names usually come from posters on here who actively follow domestics and have interest in specific skills.

 

and given how there are a lot of flaws with our Team especially in Odi and T20 lot of names get discussed.

 

 

 

[LORD_analyst]

On 11/2/2017 at 1:27 AM, express bowling said:

 

In tests, Pandya will play as the batting all-rounder and 5th bowler, whose role is to send down 10 or 12 steady overs a day while the main bowlers rejuvenate themselves.

 

Ganguly was 15 to 20 k slower and did not have the ability to hit the deck hard. Did well only when the ball swung. 

he is trundling at 120-125 nowadays

[sandeep]

Phir se aa gaya.  

 

Why stop at 120-125.  Say he's at 80.