surajmal Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Cheenis dont realize that India has a huge chip on its shoulder regarding 1962 outcome, do they? Any border war has only one outcome - Cheenis backing off with their tails tucked. Unless they attack Indian cities, then India attack their cities. both countries go up in mushrooms while goras sit back laughing their asses off. After CPC congress in september, cheenis will back off. randomGuy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 With developments in last few month on Kashmiri border, I think India is allready under what you can call indirect attack by Chinese. Why do i say it. Following happened. http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/pak-army-chief-targets-indias-cold-start-doctrine-at-missile-test/article19216327.ece Indian army was given free hand on Kashmiri border and it did deploy enough artillery to take out Pakistani terrorist bases and deter Pakistani army. Pakistan started feeling the heat, so China provided it more capability just so that Pakistan can feel safer while doing misadventure. To further assist Pakistan, China tresspassed into Doklam so that Indian army is continiously stretched on two fronts. IMO, Doklam is purely aligned with Chinese policy of containing India and keeping India at competing level with Pakistan. Now before anyone jumps the gun on Modi or BJP foreign policy, One has to remember that China has provided nukes to Pakistan and Korea just to ensure it can contain India and US. So its nothing new. Its just that for first time not did it has to come out in open against India in UN meeting but it has to send its own forces. I still think China knows that it can not cross whole Tibet and deploy its troops an win a war 100th of mile away from China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) On 7/19/2017 at 1:37 AM, zen said: Ind should eventually strategize to achieve the following: China is minus Tibet Pak is no longer in existence 28th May 1998. ..... so Dream On.... Edited July 20, 2017 by KeyboardWarrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 2 hours ago, mishra said: With developments in last few month on Kashmiri border, I think India is allready under what you can call indirect attack by Chinese. Why do i say it. Following happened. http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/pak-army-chief-targets-indias-cold-start-doctrine-at-missile-test/article19216327.ece Indian army was given free hand on Kashmiri border and it did deploy enough artillery to take out Pakistani terrorist bases and deter Pakistani army. Pakistan started feeling the heat, so China provided it more capability just so that Pakistan can feel safer while doing misadventure. To further assist Pakistan, China tresspassed into Doklam so that Indian army is continiously stretched on two fronts. IMO, Doklam is purely aligned with Chinese policy of containing India and keeping India at competing level with Pakistan. Now before anyone jumps the gun on Modi or BJP foreign policy, One has to remember that China has provided nukes to Pakistan and Korea just to ensure it can contain India and US. So its nothing new. Its just that for first time not did it has to come out in open against India in UN meeting but it has to send its own forces. I still think China knows that it can not cross whole Tibet and deploy its troops an win a war 100th of mile away from China. whatever the problem you have with china, i am sure you can deal with it. but i want to clear one thing that about the article you posted about indian cold start doctrine and NASR doctrine thn its nothing to do with china, chinese dont have any tactical nuke missiles, simple. and NASR was first tested and inducted in 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, KeyboardWarrior said: 28th May 1998. ..... so Dream On.... From an Ind PoV, What is so bad about Pak being broken in to smaller states? The seperation of East and West Pak has served well for the region Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, zen said: From an Ind PoV, What is so bad about Pak being broken in to smaller states? The seperation of East and West Pak has served well for the region for Indian PoV, and you can say whatever you want. our answer will be only ONE. but when it comes to the existence of pakistan, after 71, thres a reason why we ha to go for the Nuke option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 47 minutes ago, KeyboardWarrior said: whatever the problem you have with china, i am sure you can deal with it. but i want to clear one thing that about the article you posted about indian cold start doctrine and NASR doctrine thn its nothing to do with china, chinese dont have any tactical nuke missiles, simple. and NASR was first tested and inducted in 2011. Yes they have.Those missiles are with Pakistan and North Korea. Why do you think Americans get more pi$$ed with China each time Korea tests a missile or Chinese are in JV with Pakistan on defense equipments when they can manufacture anything and everything for rest of world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, mishra said: Yes they have.Those missiles are with Pakistan and North Korea. Why do you think Americans get more pi$$ed with China each time Korea tests a missile or Chinese are in JV with Pakistan on defense equipments when they can manufacture anything and everything for rest of world. i am talking about Tactical ballistic missiles here. China has no Tactical nuclear capabale ballistic missile. becoz its not in thre nuclear doctrine. but United States had tactical ballistic missiles in past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction find me one ballistic missile with range between 60 to 70 km. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 56 minutes ago, KeyboardWarrior said: for Indian PoV, and you can say whatever you want. our answer will be only ONE. but when it comes to the existence of pakistan, after 71, thres a reason why we ha to go for the Nuke option. I understand Pak has options. If Ind exercises its option, it would be up to Pak to decide whether it wants to stay on the map as separated states or not stay at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 31 minutes ago, zen said: I understand Pak has options. If Ind exercises its option, it would be up to Pak to decide whether it wants to stay on the map as separated states or not stay at all Pakistan only have ONE option. MAD.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said: i am talking about Tactical ballistic missiles here. China has no Tactical nuclear capabale ballistic missile. becoz its not in thre nuclear doctrine. but United States had tactical ballistic missiles in past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction find me one ballistic missile with range between 60 to 70 km. like HN1? Nuclear Capability and all are guarded secrets. Small range missiles with nuclear capabilty will spook the neighbours. I know you post quite a lot on defence forum but search K series missiles. A lot of people believe K5 is operational but India will never declare that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, mishra said: like HN1? Nuclear Capability and all are guarded secrets. Small range missiles with nuclear capabilty will spook the neighbours. I know you post quite a lot on defence forum but search K series missiles. A lot of people believe K5 is operational but India will never declare that. budy, i know what are you talking about regarding secrets etc. but its not a defence forum, its ICF , so my experiance told me that , whenever someone said something on ICF about military tech , it ha to be like "seeing is believing" .... so my previous post was based on the logic of "seeing is believing", so its fine. but HN1, isnt a ballisitic missile, its a cruise missile, infact all HN-series belongs to cruise missiles, different technology and different doctrine, and it has range more thn 600 km ..... I know about the K-series, some of my net buddies from india claiming its operational .... so its just an open secret. regarding NASR missile, its tactical ballistic missile for a different doctrine , maybe we gt some chinese assistance on this becoz of MLRS tech. thats all i can say on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said: Pakistan only have ONE option. MAD.... I thought with current stock of S-300 we are covered to a good extend. So it is not exactly MAD at par. Right now it is quite tilted in India's favor but India is not fully secured for sure. With S-400, there will be larger coverage and the dynamics will change substantially. Edited July 20, 2017 by dial_100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FischerTal Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 china is merely posturing. we have a complete advantage in the himalayas. for every 1 indian soldier killed, 9 chinese will die, unless china decides to go nuclear. i just don't see that happening. regarding pakistan, the last thing they need is for the LoC to heaten up even further than it already is. they cannot control their western borders, and just today 11 of their soldiers died in Samani and Charhoi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, dial_100 said: I thought with current stock of S-300 we are covered to a good extend. So it is not exactly MAD at par. Right now it is quite tilted in India's favor but India is not fully secured for sure. With S-400, there will be larger coverage and the dynamics will change substantially. off-topic , sorry to the OP. nothing is tilted towards india's favor, its the indian media narrative, not your govt or army. they knw it very well. there are various tactics to counter these SAMs / BMDs , nothing is invincible in this modern era of tech. pakistan knows the challenges .... for example: Raytheon has the solution for SAMs/BMDs etc, so i am sure many other countries also have it .... and pakistan knw India will go for the SAMs/BMDs in future .... it didnt come out of thin-Air from nowhere.... https://www.dawn.com/news/1310452/pakistan-conducts-first-flight-test-of-ababeel-surface-to-surface-missile From, Dec.2010. Quote Pakistani engineers, with help from the Chinese, are also said to be in the advance stages of developing MIRV technology for its missiles. This would allow the military to fit several warheads on the same ballistic missile and then launch them at separate targets. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-11888973 Also, the Shaheen Series and Babur cruise missile series have many versions to counter BMD environment ..... Edited July 20, 2017 by KeyboardWarrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said: budy, i know what are you talking about regarding secrets etc. but its not a defence forum, its ICF , so my experiance told me that , whenever someone said something on ICF about military tech , it ha to be like "seeing is believing" .... so my previous post was based on the logic of "seeing is believing", so its fine. but HN1, isnt a ballisitic missile, its a cruise missile, infact all HN-series belongs to cruise missiles, different technology and different doctrine, and it has range more thn 600 km ..... I know about the K-series, some of my net buddies from india claiming its operational .... so its just an open secret. regarding NASR missile, its tactical ballistic missile for a different doctrine , maybe we gt some chinese assistance on this becoz of MLRS tech. thats all i can say on this. And it has a range of 60 km capable to carry nuclear wArhead. Isnt cruise advanced version of ballistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Advance as in technologically superior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardWarrior Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, mishra said: And it has a range of 60 km capable to carry nuclear wArhead. Isnt cruise advanced version of ballistic? its has the range of 600 km, not 60 km. https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/hong-niao/ as i said in my above post that maybe we gt the help of chinese in NASR becoz of the MLRS ..... so i dont know exactly. Edited July 20, 2017 by KeyboardWarrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 2 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said: off-topic , sorry to the OP. nothing is tilted towards india's favor, its the indian media narrative, not your govt or army. they knw it very well. there are various tactics to counter these SAMs / BMDs , nothing is invincible in this modern era of tech. pakistan knows the challenges .... for example: Raytheon has the solution for SAMs/BMDs etc, so i am sure many other countries also have it .... and pakistan knw India will go for the SAMs/BMDs in future .... take off your CHina-whoring glasses for a minute and you will see how laughable this notion is. Nothing is tilted in India's favour ? really ? We have more mountain divisions than China. We don't require as much high altitude bariatric acclamatization, since our mountain brigade is already acclamatized to the himalayan altitudes. China maintains just 1 division in tibet- any escalation will see them bringing in troops from the plains, which would require acclamatization. We have close to six divisions for mountain warfare. We also have decisive edge in air-power in China sector- not only are our aircraft response time is 2x-5x superior to China's due to where our air bases are relative to the border, we are not taking off from 15,000 feet altitude, so our planes are not at half-capacity like the Chinese ones. And also LOL at SAMs. What moron deploys anti-aircraft SAMs in the high himalayas, instead of using our superior capacity planes and using A2S missiles ?! 2 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said: it didnt come out of thin-Air from nowhere.... https://www.dawn.com/news/1310452/pakistan-conducts-first-flight-test-of-ababeel-surface-to-surface-missile From, Dec.2010. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-11888973 Also, the Shaheen Series and Babur cruise missile series have many versions to counter BMD environment ..... I hope Pakistan and China get sanctioned for this, since China is a signatory to non-proliferation of missiles treaty. But we all know how China doesn't play by the rules. HemuChandra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, mishra said: And it has a range of 60 km capable to carry nuclear wArhead. Isnt cruise advanced version of ballistic? No. Nothing like it. Ballistic missiles leave atmosphere and re-enter. it follows a ballistic trajectory, hence the name. Cruise missiles fly in a relatively point to point Straight line trajectory. Hence it is not a staged-burn missile system like Ballistic missiles are- which are basically a more compact and efficient versions of satellite launch missiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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