Under Shastri-Kohli India will qualify for WC 2019 FInal

[Asadee78]

29 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

That WWF response. 

 

Well by that logic our recent performances showed we are the force to be reckon with. Now every Indian fan will wet there pants when they are facing us. This victory surely dented the Indian mentality of considering us minnows. Our story is no different than the Lagaan movie. You guys are the rich goras while we are the poor villagers who have a thing to prove. And we did it in the final. Sarfraz our Amir Khan captained like a tiger. 

Rotu roney waalon ko rehne do Shaz..hazam nahi hui inhein hamari jeet

[express bowling]

16 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

I mean yeah consistency has been our issue. But we were number 1 Test team for three days. Before that we were ranked among the top three. So you can't really say we were always inconsistent. 

 

I think Indians generally think they are a better team than most because of how Dhoni won you every major tournament with in seven years. That is a very fine record mind you. But at the same time your most victories have been at home. Outside of home its been very difficult. Pakistan has been playing outside of home since 2009 and still we are able to compete with the big boys. That too is a big achievement. 

 

The Misbah way has been very boring to watch. So I don't blame you for not watching us much.

 

When Pakistan became the No.1 team for a short while, people definitely started to take notice.  But then, India won 7 test series in a row and Pakistan regressed a bit and it was all forgotten.

 

I think it also has a lot to do with the presence of stars in a team.  Pakistan is lacking stars at the moment.

 

India has actually done well outside home in tests from 2000 onward, barring the period from 2011 to 2014.

 

Pakistan doing well in UAE is seen as home performance only by most fans because the pitch conditions are very similar.

 

Although, I must add that personally, I am totally against downplaying home performances because it still takes a lot of skills to dominate against quality teams.  Have we seen Australians, English and South Africans say that they are a bad team because they won at home  ? But, we Asians tend to do it sometimes.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by express bowling

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

44 minutes ago, Asadee78 said:

Rotu roney waalon ko rehne do Shaz..hazam nahi hui inhein hamari jeet

Dost. Hamne hazam bhi kar di aur fir nikal bhi di.

 

aap bhi nikal do

[DGBOSS]

1 hour ago, Shaz1 said:

That WWF response. 

 

Well by that logic our recent performances showed we are the force to be reckon with. Now every Indian fan will wet there pants when they are facing us. This victory surely dented the Indian mentality of considering us minnows. Our story is no different than the Lagaan movie. You guys are the rich goras while we are the poor villagers who have a thing to prove. And we did it in the final. Sarfraz our Amir Khan captained like a tiger. 

Big words by a team ranked No 8 few days back .... Its just a matter of time before Kohl and Sharma spank the living daylights out of the Pakistani bowling attack Like the norm has been for last few years

 

Having said that, definitely the Pakistani Bowling attack looked good in the CT. The batting though is still a big question mark. Unless the batting improves , Pakistan will hover within the No 6- No 8 Mark. 

[DGBOSS]

On July 12, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Shaz1 said:

Aren't these the types of wins that got you to think you guys are better than us?

 

 

Yes we rightly believed that for past 8 years and all continue to believe 

[express bowling]

48 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Yeah I don't think much of that number 1 spot. It was only there for three days. We started regressing after that. Its the rankings before that we proved we were consistent. In ODI's we have been **** for a while cause Pakistan has been stuck in 1980s. Although now we are slowly improving. We still got few bad choices like Hafeez and Azhar in our batting line up. I get the feeling with Sarfraz at helm we may see a different type of Pakistan. That however needs it time to show. So won't comment much on it.

 

We do have stars though. Babar Azam, Hasan Ali, Junaid Khan, and Muhammad Amir are to name a few. Even Imad Wasim is popular despite being horrible bits and pieces bowler. Is currently a number 1 bowler in Twenty20s. Shadab Khan is another exciting prospect who will only improve as time goes on. Fakhar Zaman needs his time. He needs more major performances.

For creating popularity among the masses, stars like Tendulkar, Dhoni, Kohli. Wasim, Waqar type stars are needed    : )

 

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I still think India needs to prove it can do well outside of home. I feel like there are few players there who consistently fail outside of home.

 

Having home advantage does not just mean having a pitch that suits you. It also means having that atmophere you can only feel at home. UAE will never replace Pakistan. Nor should it be considered a home advantage. It is by all means a outside of home advantage.

 

Yes it requires a skill to keep the wins at home. But at the same time its nicer to win in conditions that don't suit you. Which also includes being out of your comfort zone. 

 

As I said before, India has done really well in test matches away from home 2002 onward ( barring the late 2011 to late 2014 period ).

 

In this period, we have won 6 test series , drew 2 test series and lost 4 series  ( outside Asia excluding Zimbabwe and in Pakistan )

 

This includes defeating England in England, defeating  Pakistan in Pakistan, defeating NZ in NZ, drawing with the great Australian team in Australia and drawing with a strong SA team in SA.

 

It is true that the end 2011 to end 2014 period has not been good for us but that may change soon as this test team is looking good.

 

And, we have been doing  well often enough away from home in ODIs for the last 34 years.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by express bowling

[express bowling]

25 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

 

You guys have not been dominating us for the last few years.

 

In this millenium, in the 2000s

 

Tests -- India has won 2 series and Pakistan 1   ( including defeating Pakistan in Pakistan  )

 

World Cups -- India has won all  3 matches

 

World T20s -- India has won all 5 matches

 

Bilateral ODI series -- It is tied 3 each

 

CT -- 2-3 to Pakistan

 

 

India has been clearly better in this millennium.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by express bowling

[express bowling]

18 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

 

I was not talking about 2002 onward I was talking about 2010 onward. I could give a ziltch about the history. Going by history you could make up any numbers to look good.

Not making up any number.... 2002 was the year from which India started doing well in away test series with regularity after a gap of 22 years. And the reason was having a bunch of pacers who could take wickets abroad and a bunch of batters who could bat abroad.

This thing changed between end 2011 to end 2014. 

 

We were  good in tests  the '70s .... but, as you say, it is history and and no one really cares about it now.

 

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My problem was with the current Indian issue. Which is there rather you like to admit it or not.

The issue you talk about was with the earlier team consisting mainly of  over-the-hill superstars who were playing on and a brief period when this team was very young and was being pooled together.

 

This current test team looks much more complete and settled. In tests, they defeated Australia on a very bouncy wicket in Dharamsala which was more akin to an Australian wicket and defeated NZ on a seaming green track at Kolkata which was more like a NZ pitch.

 

Let's see what happens in a few months.... but there is reason for hope.

Edited July 13, 2017 by express bowling

[express bowling]

15 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

The guy claimed the last 8 years buddy. Not millennium. 

 

In the last 8 years,  we are left with our 2 wins in World Cups, 3 wins in World T20, tied 2-2  in CT , one ODI series to you and no test series.

 

We are still better.

 

I stated for the millennium as there is much more data and the current millennium carries some meaning.

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

I never claimed you made up numbers. I was just saying in general if you bring up history its easy to make any team look good. Who ever played what in the past with all due respect is not in the current Indian team.

 

I think proving this team can dominate overseas is still something the Indian team needs to prove. So like you said lets give it time.

 

And this is exactly why I said earlier that what ultimately matters  to fans is how long the current core team is playing at its peak and how they are performing.    All the rest are forgotten.      : )

 

Just like the players who won are not in this team, the current core team at its peak has also not lost anywhere.

 

Let's see how they do abroad.

 

I just took the opportunity arising from this interesting debate to discuss some recent history which the true cricket fans from both sides may find  interesting.    : )

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by express bowling

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, Shaz1 said:

You view India like I view Pakistan. Despite there being problems with the team as a fan I can only hope this team does better in the future.

 

 

India has some problems with our ODI team which I can clearly see and want to change.  They include 35+ batsmen at No.4 and 5 who are past their best, not trying sufficient young batsmen in inconsequential matches to replace them, Kohli is a better test captain than an ODI captain, both openers starting slowly and how to play Shami in the 11. 

 

Our current test side is much more solid and settled.   Line-up of

 

Vijay

Rahul

Pujara

Kohli

Rahane

Rohit / Ashwin

Saha

Kuldeep 

Bhuvi / Ishant

Shami

Umesh

 

looks very good even for overseas tests.  

 

Rahane, Kohli, Vijay and Rahul have done very well in tests in most outside-Asia countries

Shami, Umesh and Bhuvi are wicket takers

Kuldeep is a great addition to this side as a wrist spinner.

 

Which is the weak area according to you  ?

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by express bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, Shaz1 said:

Your Test team looks very solid but doesn't Pujara have issues outside asia? I think Indian team may need to make rotation policy for batsmen who can play outside Asia or play inside Asia.

Well he hasnt had gr8 success but its not been that he hasnt able to score only, but that is a concern. 

HE has this season to fix and prove himself in upcoming season or else there are enough good batsman in the wings 

 

By that logic every team will have chink in their team 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Ankit_sharma03

[Stuge]

LOL .....

[Vilander]

23 hours ago, express bowling said:

Not making up any number.... 2002 was the year from which India started doing well in away test series with regularity after a gap of 22 years. And the reason was having a bunch of pacers who could take wickets abroad and a bunch of batters who could bat abroad.

This thing changed between end 2011 to end 2014. 

 

We were  good in tests  the '70s .... but, as you say, it is history and and no one really cares about it now.

 

The issue you talk about was with the earlier team consisting mainly of  over-the-hill superstars who were playing on and a brief period when this team was very young and was being pooled together.

 

This current test team looks much more complete and settled. In tests, they defeated Australia on a very bouncy wicket in Dharamsala which was more akin to an Australian wicket and defeated NZ on a seaming green track at Kolkata which was more like a NZ pitch.

 

Let's see what happens in a few months.... but there is reason for hope.

EB, good catch they did not have Starc but Cummins was unplayable there.

[Ankit_sharma03]

41 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

There are replacements for every player. I think every team should thrive to be a better team. By fixing this issue you may get those extra runs.

I totally have the same belief that all teams shud look to get better.

Pujara does deserve this chance ....or else even i have said many times here if this time he doesnt do well overseas time to look for other option. No point have subcontinent beasts

[Ankit_sharma03]

8 hours ago, Shaz1 said:

Yeah players who adapt to every condition are better than players who are good in one and suck in the other. Our Hafeez is no different to players like that. Unfortunately due to politics we end up seeing him in our team. And plus I think so far Pujara had all of his chances to improve on this record. So its not like you are putting him in than kicking him out the next match. He's had years to show he could play outside of the subcontent.

Mostly that was all his 1st tours

Now to kick someone u need someone ready n kicking behind.....unfortunately we dnt and thats were another opportunity lies for Pujara 

[Pollack]

Ravi Shastri will help Kohli trusting younger players. If there is one person who can convince Kohli to trust new players and give them more exposure its Ravi Shastri due to his superb equation with kohli. Sure we have to bear with Rohit in tests and Rahane in LOI but selections might improve except for these. Good thing about Ravi Shastri is he is impulsive and once he feels Dhoni and Yuvi has no utility in the team he will surely push kohli into rethinking about them.

[express bowling]

49 minutes ago, Deewana said:

This team isn't anywhere near great the number 1 ranking was achieved through square Turner's against mediocre spin playing sides and through bashing minows overseas.

Barring the 4th test against England and 2nd test against Australia, all the other home wins were mostly on flat tracks and 2 were on seaming / bouncy tracks.

 

We got turning tracks in only 3 out of the 13 home tests and we lost in one of them.

 

This Indian side does not really favour square turners as some of our batsmen are better against pace than spin.

 

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.btw batting for oversea condition is quite rubbish pujara has a poking issue

No, he does not. His weakness is the incoming delivery.

 

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rahane except Lord's hardly has done something exceptional

Again wrong facts.

 

Rahane averages  69 in South Africa, 57 in Australia and 54 in NZ.

 

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Kohli is found wanting against swing

Just in one England tour.

 

Kohli averages 71 in New Zealand, 68 in South Africa and 62 in Australia showing how good he is outside England.

 

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Saha is as rubbish wicket keeper batsman as they come

Saha is a top keeper and a decent No.7 batter.

 

He won't bat in the top 6.

 

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Ashwin at 6 is laughable Rohit the least said about him the better

Ashwin has done a great job at No.6. in the last 12 months ( in which we played 17 tests )  after he has practiced batting a lot. . He plays with a straight bat and  handles bounce well.

 

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...your bowling quite frankly is mediocre bhuv is nothing exceptional and except England he will be bashed left right and centre

Bhuvi was always a skilled bowler and now that he has added pace and bounce.... he has picked up 2  five-fors in tests on the 2 helpful pitches he has played last year.  If the opposition provides seaming tracks, Bhuvi will be very dangerous.

 

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ishant  wth don't need to say about him your very own sohail tanvir aka kukri

Ishant is a support bowler, not a wicket-taker.  He will bowl lots of overs at 135 k to 147 k, bowl in good areas and keep up the pressue. Won't take that many wickets.... but a defensive work-horse type bowler is needed on flatter tracks to give rest to the wicket-takers.

 

He won't play on seaming tracks and Bhuvi will take over.

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Yadav your wahab..

Not in test matches.

 

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This team would be extremely lucky if England don't whitewash them next year

 

 

Time will tell. Let's see.

 

I don't expect it based on cricketing parameters.

 

Also.... you obviously do not follow Indian test cricket and just commenting on stereotypes and perceptions rather than facts.

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by express bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, Shaz1 said:

Where is that guy who scored 300 at home?

Didnt do well in next series......and sadly has got dropped for the legend rohit himself

But still it isnt right to say he is ready to replace pujara 

[Vilander]

6 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Didnt do well in next series......and sadly has got dropped for the legend rohit himself

But still it isnt right to say he is ready to replace pujara 

It's a new team under a new coach so any thing can happen now.