2nd Test, West Indies tour of England at Leeds, Aug 25-29 2017

[mishra]

Hope Joe Root learned a valuable lesson here. Being brave is good. But never underestimate the power of un-predictability in cricket. As saying goes, its better Safe then sorry.

 

Now where is @Laaloo allways criticising MSD's kiwi decision. If pitch aint helping, You haven't got bowlers to take 10 wicket, You cant simply rely on brain fart of opposition batsmen.

 

[putrevus]

13 minutes ago, mishra said:

Hope Joe Root learned a valuable lesson here. Being brave is good. But never underestimate the power of un-predictability in cricket. As saying goes, its better Safe then sorry.

 

Now where is @Laaloo allways criticising MSD's kiwi decision. If pitch aint helping, You haven't got bowlers to take 10 wicket, You cant simply rely on brain fart of opposition batsmen.

 

There is a huge difference between 320 and 600 .No one was asking MSD to declare when lead was 400  but wanted him to declare after lead went past 500.There was zero intent shown by Indian team then to force a win there.They looked like they were happy to win the series 1-0 and winning the test was secondary to them.Same thing happened in 2011 against WI.

Winning a test match should not be an afterthought.A good captain should always play and go for a win every test they play, test wins especially overseas are rare and when you get a team down you should always go for a kill which was clearly missing when Dhoni was captain even against weaker teams.

Edited August 30, 2017 by putrevus

[Gollum]

17 minutes ago, mishra said:

Hope Joe Root learned a valuable lesson here. Being brave is good. But never underestimate the power of un-predictability in cricket. As saying goes, its better Safe then sorry.

 

Now where is @Laaloo allways criticising MSD's kiwi decision. If pitch aint helping, You haven't got bowlers to take 10 wicket, You cant simply rely on brain fart of opposition batsmen.

 

Both are extremes. Root was a tad silly with the early declaration but Dhoni's 600 target on day 5 for Kiwis was a whole different level of cowardice. We should have won that series 2-0. 

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Both are extremes. Root was a tad silly with the early declaration but Dhoni's 600 target on day 5 for Kiwis was a whole different level of cowardice. We should have won that series 2-0. 

Root's declaration was not wrong at all chasing 320 is not an easy task .They wanted at least a wicket on 4th day.

[mishra]

17 minutes ago, putrevus said:

There is a huge difference between 320 and 600 .No one was asking MSD to declare when lead was 400  but wanted him to declare after lead went past 500.There was zero intent shown by Indian team then to force a win there.They looked like they were happy to win the series 1-0 and winning the test was secondary to them.Same thing happened in 2011 against WI.

Winning a test match should not be an afterthought.A good captain should always play and go for a win every test they play, test wins especially overseas are rare and when you get a team down you should always go for a kill which was clearly missing when Dhoni was captain even against weaker teams.

Prior to that always check the arsenal. How many times we have taken 20 wickets in a overseas test tour. And why go that far, in the same series Kiwis had shown that they could score over 600 against Indian bowling. Dead pitch, a couple of drop catches, home crowd and  pressure would have been on India. So instead he choose 1-0 in bag why risk injury to our bowlers if you know You cant take 10 wickets if batsmen really get in.

Edited August 30, 2017 by mishra

[putrevus]

Just now, mishra said:

Prior to that always check the arsenal. How many times we have taken 20 wickets in a overseas test tour. And why go that far, in the same series Kiwis had shown that they could score over 600 against Indian bowling. Dead pitch, a couple of drop catches, 1-0 in bag why risk injury to our bowlers if you know You cant take 10 wickets if batsmen really get in.

How can any team score 600 in 120 overs, He knew light was a factor.There is no defending Dhoni's cowardice . Dhoni again proved  his conservative captaincy by not opting to chase a small total in WI therefore negating your point about bowling strength.

 

Team shoulds evolve  what is good for 1970s-80s Indian team cannot be good modern Indian teams. Dhoni with his playing safe attitude pushed Indian test teams at least a decade back.

 

Gavaskar and Srikanth's inept and cowardly batting cost Indian team a test/series win against Australia 1985, chasing 120 odd runs with rain in forecast they chose to be happy with draw denying Kapil Dev a chance for test win.India has never sniffed a chance of winning a series ever since.

 

Allan Border made a bold declaration in 1986 Chennai tied test against a stronger Indian team and as a result Ausssie have never looked back.That tied test is viewed as their turning point , winning is an attitude which only a captain can force upon his team. 

 

[Laaloo]

27 minutes ago, mishra said:

Prior to that always check the arsenal. How many times we have taken 20 wickets in a overseas test tour. And why go that far, in the same series Kiwis had shown that they could score over 600 against Indian bowling. Dead pitch, a couple of drop catches, home crowd and  pressure would have been on India. So instead he choose 1-0 in bag why risk injury to our bowlers if you know You cant take 10 wickets if batsmen really get in.

Then we should have waited till the target was 700. I'm sure dhoni would have wanted that. That decision was inexplicable. 

[mishra]

56 minutes ago, putrevus said:

How can any team score 600 in 120 overs, He knew light was a factor.There is no defending Dhoni's cowardice . Dhoni again proved  his conservative captaincy by not opting to chase a small total in WI therefore negating your point about bowling strength.

 

Team shoulds evolve  what is good for 1970s-80s Indian team cannot be good modern Indian teams. Dhoni with his playing safe attitude pushed Indian test teams at least a decade back.

 

Gavaskar and Srikanth's inept and cowardly batting cost Indian team a test/series win against Australia 1985, chasing 120 odd runs with rain in forecast they chose to be happy with draw denying Kapil Dev a chance for test win.India has never sniffed a chance of winning a series ever since.

 

Allan Border made a bold declaration in 1986 Chennai tied test against a stronger Indian team and as a result Ausssie have never looked back.That tied test is viewed as their turning point , winning is an attitude which only a captain can force upon his team. 

 

Yes, I am not disagreeing that he ensured that result was a draw or India win. But say if he would have left 150 overs, light didn't deteriorate or batsmen requested to continue despite poor light (not sure but i think batsmen can do it) or say Zakk was nursing some injury.

 

I agree to the extent that decision was defensive mindset but at the same time there are compelling valid reasons to it.

Edited August 30, 2017 by mishra

[mishra]

44 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

Then we should have waited till the target was 700. I'm sure dhoni would have wanted that. That decision was inexplicable. 

The decision you applauded actually resulted in complete embarrassment. BTW Root is new and very respected player and hence only, He has avoided humourous painful assassination by English Sports writers.

Edited August 30, 2017 by mishra

[mishra]

Quote

It was right to crucify West Indies after the first Test - but this victory was wonderful

Some people are going to blame Joe Root for declaring and not batting on and making sure the game was safe.

But I disagree. To score 322 in the fourth innings was a hell of a lot of runs. Obviously it will make Joe wary of declaring in the future. When Len Hutton put Australia in to bat at Brisbane in 1954 and lost by an innings he always said after that "if you think of putting a side into bat, think again and bat yourself".