Canadian Sikh Politician handles the racist heckler

[Ranvir]

9 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

she was PM. the fact that you are equating having names on airports, roads, etc. to Gurdwaras is just indicative of how low standards you hold your own Gurdwaras and maybe thats why you have these terrorist supporting Gurdwaras in Canada/UK.

 

When a religious institution potrays terrorists as heroes, its a far bigger offence and far more dangerous behaviour than naming airports and roads after a controversial PM who is nowhere as close as heinous as a hostage-taking terrorist using a religious building as his shield. there aren't much more cowardly behaviour than that...surprised that some Khalsa-wallas are so hell-bent in supporting such a coward disgrace to Sikhism.

 

No I am equating the actions of the government of India with that of gurdwaras. The government portrays Indira Gandhi as a martyr and some gurdwaras may portray Bhindranwale as a martyr. 

 

The government has far more responsibility and influence than any religious building has.

 

You are conveniently offended by one thing and then ignore the possible offence that another thing will cause.

 

Operation Bluestar was a massive blunder and it set up the violence that was to follow for the next 11 years. It only made things worse you simpleton.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Ranvir

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

No I am equating the actions of the government of India with that of gurdwaras. The government portrays Indira Gandhi as a martyr and some gurdwaras may portray Bhindranwale as a martyr. 

 

The government has far more responsibility and influence than any religious building has.

 

You are conveniently offended by one thing and then ignore the possible offence that another thing will cause.

 

Operation Bluestar was a massive blunder and it set up the violence that was to follow for the next 11 years. It only made things worse you simpleton.

So you are holding Gurdwaras to the same standard as the government. Ie, you should have no problems then, admitting some Gurdwaras, like some members of the government, are corrupt scam artists. People don't blindly follow government but people do blindly follow religious instiutions. And as i said, you equating IG with Bhindranwala is laughable. 

 

Only reason you are saying operation blue star was a blunder, is because a Sikh temple got blown up. But you are too cowardly and un-Khalsa to admit, that the responsibility for blowing up golden temple and cause of Operation blue star is because a fake Sikh jihadi took hostages and fortified the building in violation of government laws. Ie, clear-cut case of Bhindranwala being responsible for the whole mess. But like a pucca- khalistani, you are blaming the government. 

Good thing most Sikhs i've met in India lays blame correctly on fake-Sikh Bhindranwala, not IG. 

too bad Khalistanis like yourself and living out of India are corrupted by these same terrorist worshipping Gurdwaras. 

 

[G_B_]

2 hours ago, Ranvir said:

No I am equating the actions of the government of India with that of gurdwaras. The government portrays Indira Gandhi as a martyr and some gurdwaras may portray Bhindranwale as a martyr. 

 

The government has far more responsibility and influence than any religious building has.

 

You are conveniently offended by one thing and then ignore the possible offence that another thing will cause.

 

Operation Bluestar was a massive blunder and it set up the violence that was to follow for the next 11 years. It only made things worse you simpleton.

Only a congress government.

 

Not the BJP one who are allied to the Akali dal.

[Ranvir]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

So you are holding Gurdwaras to the same standard as the government. Ie, you should have no problems then, admitting some Gurdwaras, like some members of the government, are corrupt scam artists. People don't blindly follow government but people do blindly follow religious instiutions. And as i said, you equating IG with Bhindranwala is laughable. 

 

Only reason you are saying operation blue star was a blunder, is because a Sikh temple got blown up. But you are too cowardly and un-Khalsa to admit, that the responsibility for blowing up golden temple and cause of Operation blue star is because a fake Sikh jihadi took hostages and fortified the building in violation of government laws. Ie, clear-cut case of Bhindranwala being responsible for the whole mess. But like a pucca- khalistani, you are blaming the government. 

Good thing most Sikhs i've met in India lays blame correctly on fake-Sikh Bhindranwala, not IG. 

too bad Khalistanis like yourself and living out of India are corrupted by these same terrorist worshipping Gurdwaras. 

 

I have never supported Khalistan so stop making stuff up. People don't blindly follow what is said in a gurdwara or religion. Most people in the world follow what the government says blindly. The government has far more control and influence than any religious institution. It is the government that watch what you are doing and affect your quality of life and you have to follow them otherwise you are breaking the law. There is no compulsion in religion, especially in Sikhism. 

 

You live in some fantasy alternative reality where you think that the majority of Sikhs follow what is said in a gurdwara. The vast majority of Sikhs in the west go only on a Sunday. You seem to have the idea that Sikhs in the west are training to fight in Punjab or are financing militants. The Khalistan movement is dead so you can sleep easy at night Mr Paranoid. If people want to put up pictures of controversial people then that is up to them. No one is forcing you to go to a gurdwara and you are not the person to tell Sikhs what they can or cannot do or what their religion stands for.

 

People in the west put up pictures of Che Guevara all of the time and he was a far more controversial, dangerous and influential man on history than Bhindranwale ever was. He was considered a terrorist to some and freedom fighter to others. So next time you see his image make sure you have an anger fit like you do when you see a picture of Bhindranwale.

 

The biggest blunder of operation bluestar was the fact that hundreds of innocent civilians died. If Vatican City, Mecca, Wailing wall was destroyed you can guarantee that a lot of people are going to be annoyed. Jews are still going on about their temple being destroyed 2000 years ago. Hindus are still going on about Ayodhya.

 

The root cause of the problem was Indira Gandhi who had a plan but it backfired on her spectacularly. Yet you are too much of a  shining India supporter to admit that.

 

Anyway it must be 3am in Vancouver. Time

for you to get a life if you are posting that early in the morning.

[Muloghonto]

7 hours ago, Ranvir said:

I have never supported Khalistan so stop making stuff up. People don't blindly follow what is said in a gurdwara or religion. Most people in the world follow what the government says blindly. The government has far more control and influence than any religious institution. It is the government that watch what you are doing and affect your quality of life and you have to follow them otherwise you are breaking the law. There is no compulsion in religion, especially in Sikhism. 

Just who listens to a government blindly ? Last i checked, people don't go to the government 'every Sunday' to listen on how to lead their lives. they do for religious bodies. And when you compare government to religious bodies, the implication is, just like the government, religious bodies too have some good apples and some bad apples. Ie, you have good Gurdwaras, bad Gurdwaras. So lets see you admit this logical implication of comparing government and religious institutions. 

 

7 hours ago, Ranvir said:

You live in some fantasy alternative reality where you think that the majority of Sikhs follow what is said in a gurdwara. The vast majority of Sikhs in the west go only on a Sunday. You seem to have the idea that Sikhs in the west are training to fight in Punjab or are financing militants. The Khalistan movement is dead so you can sleep easy at night Mr Paranoid. If people want to put up pictures of controversial people then that is up to them. No one is forcing you to go to a gurdwara and you are not the person to tell Sikhs what they can or cannot do or what their religion stands for.

Khalistan will never be dead as long as we have terrorist supporting fake-Sikh Gurdwaras, trying to influence Sikhs. Last year at Vesakhi, we had a Khalistani give a speech on Khalistan in Vancouver. We reported her for aiding and abetting terrorism and now she is on terror watch-list. As long as Khalistanis like her are alive, khalistan isn't dead. 

And if people put up pictures of terrorists, they should have the balls to face criticism. Not run and hide under BS like you are presenting. 

 

7 hours ago, Ranvir said:

People in the west put up pictures of Che Guevara all of the time and he was a far more controversial, dangerous and influential man on history than Bhindranwale ever was. He was considered a terrorist to some and freedom fighter to others. So next time you see his image make sure you have an anger fit like you do when you see a picture of Bhindranwale.

Disagree. Last i checked, Che didn't take hostages and hide behind a religious building BS-ing people about being moral. Che is far more of a leader than fake-Sikh Bhindranwala and the fake Gurdwaras we have in the west. 

 

7 hours ago, Ranvir said:

The biggest blunder of operation bluestar was the fact that hundreds of innocent civilians died. If Vatican City, Mecca, Wailing wall was destroyed you can guarantee that a lot of people are going to be annoyed. Jews are still going on about their temple being destroyed 2000 years ago. Hindus are still going on about Ayodhya.

so blame Bhindranwala for the civillians. In hostage crisis, hostages may/may not die. Good on IG for not caving to a terrorist. As i already pointed out, Hindus and Jews are mad because their holy spots were demolished because it was the wrong religion. not because some rebel took it over and turned it into a fort. 
I realize, for people like you, religion comes before nation. But thankfully, for most Punjabis, nation comes before religion and for those, they see OBS as a necessary evil, perpetrated by a fake Sikh con-artist named Bhindranwala.

 

 

7 hours ago, Ranvir said:

The root cause of the problem was Indira Gandhi who had a plan but it backfired on her spectacularly. Yet you are too much of a  shining India supporter to admit that.

I never denied that the aftermath of OBS was messy. But if IG was to do it all over again a 1000 times, she'd have my support a 1000 times to blow up any building where terrorists are fortifying and holding hostages. Don't care if its a religious building, govt. building, commercial building or private building. 

 

7 hours ago, Ranvir said:

 

Anyway it must be 3am in Vancouver. Time

for you to get a life if you are posting that early in the morning.

the entire reason i was up at 3am, you idjit, is because i HAVE a life.

 

[Ranvir]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

Just who listens to a government blindly ? Last i checked, people don't go to the government 'every Sunday' to listen on how to lead their lives. they do for religious bodies. And when you compare government to religious bodies, the implication is, just like the government, religious bodies too have some good apples and some bad apples. Ie, you have good Gurdwaras, bad Gurdwaras. So lets see you admit this logical implication of comparing government and religious institutions. 

 

Khalistan will never be dead as long as we have terrorist supporting fake-Sikh Gurdwaras, trying to influence Sikhs. Last year at Vesakhi, we had a Khalistani give a speech on Khalistan in Vancouver. We reported her for aiding and abetting terrorism and now she is on terror watch-list. As long as Khalistanis like her are alive, khalistan isn't dead. 

And if people put up pictures of terrorists, they should have the balls to face criticism. Not run and hide under BS like you are presenting. 

 

Disagree. Last i checked, Che didn't take hostages and hide behind a religious building BS-ing people about being moral. Che is far more of a leader than fake-Sikh Bhindranwala and the fake Gurdwaras we have in the west. 

 

so blame Bhindranwala for the civillians. In hostage crisis, hostages may/may not die. Good on IG for not caving to a terrorist. As i already pointed out, Hindus and Jews are mad because their holy spots were demolished because it was the wrong religion. not because some rebel took it over and turned it into a fort. 
I realize, for people like you, religion comes before nation. But thankfully, for most Punjabis, nation comes before religion and for those, they see OBS as a necessary evil, perpetrated by a fake Sikh con-artist named Bhindranwala.

 

 

I never denied that the aftermath of OBS was messy. But if IG was to do it all over again a 1000 times, she'd have my support a 1000 times to blow up any building where terrorists are fortifying and holding hostages. Don't care if its a religious building, govt. building, commercial building or private building. 

 

the entire reason i was up at 3am, you idjit, is because i HAVE a life.

 

Who listens to a government blindly? Just about everyone whether they are aware of it or not. All laws of the land are set and imposed by the government not by the church, mandir or gurdwara. If a gurdwara tells someone to do something that person can choose not to follow it and nothing will happen to them. If you ignore a government law (such as compulsory military service in some countries) you face the possibility of jail.

 

compute that you numbnut.

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Ranvir said:

Who listens to a government blindly? Just about everyone whether they are aware of it or not. All laws of the land are set and imposed by the government not by the church, mandir or gurdwara. If a gurdwara tells someone to do something that person can choose not to follow it and nothing will happen to them. If you ignore a government law (such as compulsory military service in some countries) you face the possibility of jail.

 

compute that you numbnut.

Obeying laws is not the same as listening to the government on how to lead your life. People learn the latter, either from self-investigation or through religion.

A democratic government doesnt tell you what to think. But religion does.

 

So do you admit then, that if you are comparing government to Gurdwaras, it'd mean just like there are corrupt institutions in the government, so too there are corrupt Gurdwaras out there 

? yes/no please.

 

[Ranvir]

19 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Obeying laws is not the same as listening to the government on how to lead your life. People learn the latter, either from self-investigation or through religion.

A democratic government doesnt tell you what to think. But religion does.

 

So do you admit then, that if you are comparing government to Gurdwaras, it'd mean just like there are corrupt institutions in the government, so too there are corrupt Gurdwaras out there 

? yes/no please.

 

Of course the government tells you what to think. Media and propaganda are all part of the government.

 

From the 1950s to the 1980s the governments of the west told their people to fear the soviets and the soviets did the reverse. The UK bans channels like Press TV.

 

Look at China today, who has more influence there? Some Shaolin Monk? The teachings of Confucius? Or the government? The same government that can put democracy campaigners in the grave, demolish buildings when lever they want to, ban outside media and websites?

 

Think for once. Maybe read George Orwell's 1984 and open your mind.

 

There are corrupt institutions everywhere but the government has far more influence than any institution.

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Ranvir said:

Of course the government tells you what to think. Media and propaganda are all part of the government.

In North Korea or China. In India or the west, government has one token channel and rest of media is private.

 

Just now, Ranvir said:

From the 1950s to the 1980s the governments of the west told their people to fear the soviets and the soviets did the reverse. The UK bans channels like Press TV.

 

Look at China today, who has more influence there? Some Shaolin Monk? The teachings of Confucius? Or the government? The same government that can put democracy campaigners in the grave, demolish buildings when lever they want to, ban outside media and websites?

 

Think for once. Maybe read George Orwell's 1984 and open your mind.

 

There are corrupt institutions everywhere but the government has far more influence than any institution.

O great khalsa-wallah, what would it take for you to stop running away from a simple question ? perhaps you need to do some Puja to summon the spirit of Hari Singh Nalwa ? Because you still haven't answered my question, that if you equate government to religious instituitons, hten it means there are corrupt and evil Gurdwaras too.....

 

[Ranvir]

26 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

In North Korea or China. In India or the west, government has one token channel and rest of media is private.

 

O great khalsa-wallah, what would it take for you to stop running away from a simple question ? perhaps you need to do some Puja to summon the spirit of Hari Singh Nalwa ? Because you still haven't answered my question, that if you equate government to religious instituitons, hten it means there are corrupt and evil Gurdwaras too.....

 

Hey Bengal tiger I said all types of institutions can be corrupt be it governments, religious institutions, schools, corporations. Do you understand now?

 

did you not read what I said about the Cold War era? How there was fear mongering carried out by both the west and the soviets? You conveniently forgot that. You forget about how the American government got the American public so riled up about weapons of mass destruction before the Iraq invasion.

[Tibarn]

On 9/10/2017 at 11:50 PM, Under_Score said:

So what have the Governments in India done since 1984 to bring to justice all the thugs & hooligans who killed, raped & plundered Sikh women and burnt Sikh Men & toddlers alive....what's so great about India's so called Democracy and which political party has done anything in bringing to justice all the criminals who are walking free to this day.

I agree that the Government of India hasn't done anything to really fix this problem/investigate, but this isn't limited to Sikhs only.

For example: Recently this is what the SC told to Kashmiri Pandits

Quote

New Delhi: In a major development, the Supreme Court on Monday refused to entertain a plea seeking probe and prosecution of various persons, including separatist leader Yasin Malik, for various offences including murder of over 700 Kashmiri Pandits during the height of militancy in the Valley in 1989-90.

According to PTI, the order was passed by the apex court bench of Chief Justice JS Khehar and Justice DY Chandrachud, which said that almost 27 years have passed and it will be very difficult to gather evidences in cases of murder, arson and looting which had led to mass exodus of Kashmiri Pandits from the Kashmir Valley.

"You (petitioner) sat over it for last 27 years. Now tell us from where the evidence will come," the bench said.

Advocate Vikas Padora, appearing for an organisation 'Roots of Kashmir', said Kashmiri Pandits were forced to leave their abodes in the Valley and could not join the investigation and further submitted that the delay was there but neither the Centre nor the state government nor the judiciary took adequate note of it to do the needful.

The organisation has alleged that 215 FIRs had been lodged relating to the murder of over 700 Kashmiri Pandits and none of the cases have reached a logical conclusion.

 

 

On 9/15/2017 at 2:43 AM, Under_Score said:

minorities have no chance of a fair treatment

This depends. In some areas, minorities have far more rights than Hindus. The Indian state seized control over Hindu temples and all their wealth/property can be taken/sold whenever the state decides. Hindus also don't have the right to run their own educational institutions without government interference. Those are only 2 examples. 

 

 

On 9/15/2017 at 1:46 AM, Under_Score said:

why do many educated people like you don't want to condemn the State sponsored Mass Genocide in 1984?

I condemn it.

 

I would say a lot of people don't know what actually went on during that time. There was nothing like the internet or smart phones back then, so people, especially in places where there are little Sikh population, like the

Southern states, probably have no first hand or even second hand knowledge of what went on. 

 

I would wager that you are also not aware of how the Congress party massacred Chitpavan Brahmins in Maharashtra after the Gandhi Assassination. The truth is, many Indians aren't informed about many things that have happened in India, especially outside of their respective states.    

On 9/15/2017 at 9:30 AM, AmreekanDesi said:

It wasn't a genocide

Bro, if we're talking about what happened after Indira was assassinated, it was genocide

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/genocide

Quote

the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation

Congress party workers literally butchered Sikhs and state Congress governments probably told the police to stand down in many cases.  

 

On 9/15/2017 at 1:42 PM, rageaddict said:

 Moreover,  the party responsible for the Sikh massacre was unanimously voted to Power in the elections that followed.

Who voted for them because of massacring Sikhs? Most people in India then were just voting for the government to give them food and basics.

 

There's no reason to think that the majority government that Congress received after the massacre of Sikhs was because they massacred Sikhs. The Congress party essentially ruled India effectively unopposed for much of India's history, especially after partition. 

 

Who exactly was there at a national level that anyone could vote for? 

 

On 9/16/2017 at 5:10 AM, Ranvir said:

In fact the whole trouble in the 80s was all Indira Gandhi's fault, she couldn't stand the Akali Dal dominance in Punjab so she used Bhindranwale to break their strength but that plan backfired when he turned against her. She was a fool just like Nehru and her son.

This is something people tend to forget/never knew.

 

She couldn't win an election in Punjab, one of the few states where Congress struggled to get a foothold, so she fermented trouble there. 

 

On 9/17/2017 at 7:35 AM, Ranvir said:

I highly doubt that. You Hindus are largely still crying about mandirs that you presumed were destroyed thousands of years ago in Ayodhya

You and Muloghonto are free to go back and forth, that's none of my business, but I'm just informing you he's not Hindu. Muloghonto usually claims to be an Atheist, so if this thread becomes a Hindu-Sikh thing, it doesn't really affect him.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also what is this nonsense in this thread about the Congress representing Hindus? If anyone wants to contend that Congress represents Hindus, I can give a laundry list of actions done by Congress specifically harmful to Hindu society.  

 

Anyway, back to regularly scheduled programming... 

 

 

 

  

Edited September 18, 2017 by Tibarn

[Muloghonto]

38 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

Hey Bengal tiger I said all types of institutions can be corrupt be it governments, religious institutions, schools, corporations. Do you understand now?

So then why are you getting on my case for exposing corrupt, terrorist worshipping Gurdwaras ? Did i tell you what type of corruption you can speak for or not ?!

 

 

[Muloghonto]

47 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

Very well said, this is so true...have no idea who some people assume that ALL NRI Sikhs in Canada & England are Khalistan supporters.

I would suggest that you don't waste more time replying to some absolute dippers, we Sikhs are very happy in life, well established in India & overseas due to our hard work, we enjoy life & party hard...so no point wasting time debating with some losers....cheers!! 

Learn to read English better. I said some of them are. And i say this, because i have been in Canada for decades and I've seen certain Gurdwaras parade Bhindranwala and talwinder singh Parmar photos on vesakhi parade.

that is, straight-up, parading and supporting terrorists. 

 

Until you guys have the balls to oppose such terrorist supporting Gurdwaras on Vesakhi, why should we consider you anything more than tacit supporters of Khalistani terrorists ? 

 

 

PS: I hope you have the integrity, to admit that when terrorists take over a building and hold hostages, all options are on the table for the government and that is how it should be. to say otherwise, is simply putting your religion over the nation and i know most Sikhs in India are way too patriotic for that. Canadian Sikhs on the other hand argue to wear turban instead of helmet while driving motorbikes, because of BS religious fanaticism and endangering their lives and the lives of Sikh youth in name of religion. So pardon me, when i consider most Canadian Sikhs to be suspect in their ideological fanaticism.

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Muloghonto]

10 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

This is my last reply to your paranoid posts....Vaisakhi Parades will always have posters of Sikh fighters.

 

The day Indian Govt will bring to justice all the killers of the Indian Sikhs in 1984....we can discuss about Gurudwara posters & Vaisakhi parade photos....if your corrupt Indian Govt cannot do it...Just S T F U!!...Thanks

they are not fighters, they are terrorists. Mastermind of the guy who blew up the Air India flight, is not comisserating with fighters, its supporting terrorists who murdered innocent civilians. 

Your 'fighters' are the likes of Hari Singh Nalwa. Not cowards like Bhindranwala or Parmar. they are cowards and anyone who supports these cold-blooded terrorists who killed innocent civilians, have no business sullying the proud name of Khalsa or even calling themselves Sikh. Because last i checked, Sikhs are not cowardly enough to go hide behind women and children or blow up women and children for their nefarious gains.

 

Your last bolded line, is clear example of how corrupt and low the Sikh community in Canada is, where they hold so-called Sants from Gurdwaras to same standard as politicians. 

And no, we will not Stfu. We will draw attention to terrorist supporting low-lifes, which is in violation of Canadian law and keep calling out the Gurdwaras for the scum they are.

 

Here is some for u:

 

http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/surrey-vaisakhi-and-sikh-martyrs

 

PS: Notice that the reporter isn't an 'evil Hindu'. Last year we got one of the low-lifes arrested for hate-crime, we will be watching next year too. Any and all terrorist-supporting entities have to be destroyed. Including these corrupt Gurdwaras in Canada.

 

PPS: the day Canada has the guts to prosecute Air India flight 182 bombers and bring them to justice and when the fake sikhs in Canada have the guts to testify against the scum who planned it, that is the day the likes of you can criticize a nation with far less resources than Canada to deliver justice for the Sikh dead. till then, you are nothing more than cowardly terrorist sponsoring scum that would make every single Sikh Guru spit on your face.

 

 

PPPS: When Armenians can find evidence of their genocide, almost a 100 years later, from a hostile nation (turkey), when no foreign media was around, it makes it clear that the reason you guys don't have a case for genocide, is because a) it was not genocide but breakdown in law & order  or b) you guys are neither smart enough or capable enough to follow the Armenian lead.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Muloghonto]

2 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

The problem with you is....you keep whining about Sikhs in Canada about Sikhs fighters posters in Sikh Temples & Parades....just tell me one simple thing...are these posters killing any Hindus...if no, then why is your candy ass on fire?.....and when asked about bringing to justice all those lowlife Hindus who killed innocent Sikhs in India....you just keep asking for proof

Because they are terrorists and Sikhs in Canada are too much of a coward to call them out as such, due to being oppressed by their Gurdwaras. Someone has to step up and call a spade a spade...or a terrorist a terrorist...especially when Sikhs in Canada are too much of a coward to stop their glorification. 

 

2 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

Here is the proof you coward!!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_anti-Sikh_riots

 

1984 anti-Sikh riots

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

"Sikh genocide" redirects here. For the genocide of 1762, see Vaḍḍā Ghallūghārā. For the genocide of 1746, see Chhōtā Ghallūghārā.

1984 anti-Sikh riots
Sikh man surrounded and beaten by a mob
Location	Punjab, Delhi
Date	31 October – 3 November 1984
Target	Sikhs
Attack type	Massacre, mass murder, forced conversion, arson, abduction, rape
Deaths	(official) 2,800[1] (unofficial) 8,000[2]
Perpetrators	Congress Party members
Motive	Avenging the assassination of Indira Gandhi

The 1984 anti-Sikh riots, also known as the 1984 Sikh Massacre and the 1984 genocide of Sikhs, was a series of pogroms^[3][4][5] against Sikhs in India by anti-Sikh mobs (notably Congress Party members) in response to the assassination of Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards. Official Indian government reports numbered about 2,800 killed across India, including 2,100 in Delhi.^[5][6] Independent sources estimate the number of deaths at about 8,000,^[2][7][8] including at least 3,000 in Delhi.^[9] The Central Bureau of Investigation, the main Indian investigative agency, believes that the violence was organised with support from the Delhi police and some central-government officials.^[10] Rajiv Gandhi, who was sworn in as prime minister after his mother's death, said when asked about the riots: "When a big tree falls, the earth shakes".^[11]

Sporadic violence continued as the result of an armed Sikh separatist movement which sought independence. In June 1984, during Operation Blue Star, Indira Gandhi ordered the Indian Army to attack the Golden Temple and eliminate any insurgents; it had been occupied by Sikh separatists, who were reportedly stockpiling weapons. Later operations by Indian paramilitary forces were conducted to clear the separatists from the state of Punjab.^[12]

The violence in Delhi was triggered by the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi on 31 October 1984 by two of her Sikh bodyguardswho responded to her authorisation of the military operation. The Indian government reported 2,700 deaths in the ensuing chaos. In the aftermath of the riots, the government reported that 20,000 had fled the city; the People's Union for Civil Liberties reported "at least" 1,000 displaced persons.^[13] The most-affected regions were the Sikh neighbourhoods of Delhi. Human rights organisations and newspapers across India believed that the massacre was organised.^[5][10][14] The collusion of political officials in the violence and judicial failure to penalise the perpetrators alienated Sikhs and increased support for the Khalistan movement.^[15] The Akal Takht, Sikhism's governing body, considers the killings genocide.^[16]

In 2011, Human Rights Watch reported that the Government of India had "yet to prosecute those responsible for the mass killings".^[17] According to the 2011 WikiLeaks cable leaks, the United States was convinced of Indian National Congress complicity in the riots and called it "opportunism" and "hatred" by the Congress government of Sikhs.^[18][19] Although the U.S. has not identified the riots as genocide, it acknowledged that "grave human rights violations" occurred.^[20] In 2011, a new group of mass graves was discovered in Haryana and Human Rights Watch reported that "widespread anti-Sikh attacks in Haryana were part of broader revenge attacks" in India.^[21]

 

You need to educate yourself better on what is termed 'proof' and what is termed 'allegation'. Your cut-paste from Wiki,is latter. 

If you had proof, you'd have gone to Hague, gotten it declared a genocide. Like others have done. You whine about 'corrupt Indian government from 1984' ? Engage your brain and tell us then, how did the Armenians prove, that the turks genocided armenians, in turkey, in 1920s, way, way later- like in 2005 ? thats 85 years later, also with zero foreign media help and turkish government having 85 years to bury the evidence. So if Armenians can, why can't you folks ?

 

 the fact that nobody has proven it to be a genocide, simply leaves two options:

a) it was not a genocide, ergo, no case

b) You guys are too stupid and too lazy to make said case and do the hard work.

 

Only these two options exist, so pick one.

[Muloghonto]

9 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

The option I want to pick is to beat the living crap out of your pathetic sorry life......then again, it's not worth it....thx & g'nite.

As i thought. use fists because you have no argument left. 

Pity that the sikhs in Canada are too much of a coward to not protest glorification of those who murdered innocent women and children. As i said, all your Gurus would spit on the faces of these cowards and cowards like you who defend them...because Sikh resistance is not about blowing up innocent civillians and hiding behind them. Read about your true heroes, not the fake terrorist cowardly ones. Hari Singh Nalwa is a good starting point- go read about him and how he resisted. not by murdering innocent women and children, i guarantee you. 

 

PS: As for pu$$y attitude- i am not the one trying to justify action of terrorists and killers and hiding behind women and children like you are.

PPS: So why haven't you taken your evidence to the ICJ or Hague tribunal and gotten it declared a genocide ? kya hua ? phat gayee ?

Edited September 19, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Ranvir]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

As i thought. use fists because you have no argument left. 

Pity that the sikhs in Canada are too much of a coward to not protest glorification of those who murdered innocent women and children. As i said, all your Gurus would spit on the faces of these cowards and cowards like you who defend them...because Sikh resistance is not about blowing up innocent civillians and hiding behind them. Read about your true heroes, not the fake terrorist cowardly ones. Hari Singh Nalwa is a good starting point- go read about him and how he resisted. not by murdering innocent women and children, i guarantee you. 

 

PS: As for pu$$y attitude- i am not the one trying to justify action of terrorists and killers and hiding behind women and children like you are.

PPS: So why haven't you taken your evidence to the ICJ or Hague tribunal and gotten it declared a genocide ? kya hua ? phat gayee ?

What has The Hague ever done for the Armenians? Have they got any justice? It is a European centric organisation. Has it ever done anything for the millions Stalin and Pol Pot killed? It is not the be all and end all you fool.

 

Have you ever heard of the Nanavati commission? Read about it you ignorant idiot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanavati_commission

 

It was an enquiry carried out in your beloved India. The same India you left decades ago. You keep going on about country before religion but you seem to be the type of person who would support India over Canada, the same India that you left decades ago because it was a chaotic lawless mess.

 

The way you get annoyed seeing pictures If Bhindranwale the same way Sikhs get annoyed with seeing buildings, gardens and roads named after Indira Gandhi.

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

What has The Hague ever done for the Armenians? Have they got any justice? It is a European centric organisation. Has it ever done anything for the millions Stalin and Pol Pot killed? It is not the be all and end all you fool.

Obviously an organization based in Europe, will get more easy-access to Europe and be more focussed on Europe. Armenia is also, not Europe FYI and neither is turkey to most Europeans (even though they are, technically). 

Nobody said its the end all-or-be-all, but it is the start. Once Armenia got it recognized by the UN Human Rights Council, it got them recognition. 

that is the first step, you fool but you and your community are not interested, because you guys are happy just spinning fanciful tales with the truth and playing the victim or not caring (which is also good in its own, personal way). 

 

 

Quote

Have you ever heard of the Nanavati commission? Read about it you ignorant idiot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanavati_commission

 

It was an enquiry carried out in your beloved India. The same India you left decades ago. You keep going on about country before religion but you seem to be the type of person who would support India over Canada, the same India that you left decades ago because it was a chaotic lawless mess.

I have full rights to support India over Canada, if I chose to, since as a PIO who was born Indian citizen, i can re-claim my Indian citizenship at any time. So yes, for me, the option exists to chose a nation.And don't worry, unless India and Canada are fighting a war against each other or i am ever in a position to pass national secrets of one to the other(I am not), there is no conflict of interest from the Canadian side as they recognize multiple citizenships. Putting nation ahead of religion does not just mean put ONE nation ahead of religion, you fool. It also means to put concept of nation, nationality, national duty ahead of religion. 

 

And go tell this guy, to go to the UNHRC first, make the case and have his shot at glory. You may be right- Indian government has done jack $hit as well as concealed/hindered the truth. So again, why are you guys not knocking on the doors of Human rights tribunals, etc. ? maybe...just maybe...you guys got nothing to show its a government conspiracy.

Remember- if i 'chose to do nothing', i cannot be accused of genocide, period. If government makes a lucky guess, that if they stood down and did nothing, then 'ethnic group X will mass kill ethnic group Y', then chose to do so, the charge is not genocide. its criminal negligence and gross violation of human rights. 

So inorder to prove genocide, you have to prove, that there was systematic coordination from the government or systematic coordination from the government to hide its tracks.

 

So instead of pointing out a few half-ar$ed stuff thats neither here or there, go do it the proper way. Or atleast answer credibly why there is zero Sikh activity in the UNHRC or any such body about 1984. 

Same 'Eurocentric' bodies condemned Rwanda which is even less important African nobody. Surely, its not because Sikh community has less pull/power globally than Hutus and tutsis.....

 

 

Quote

The way you get annoyed seeing pictures If Bhindranwale the same way Sikhs get annoyed with seeing buildings, gardens and roads named after Indira Gandhi.

I call those Sikhs, fanatics. Because i know Sikhs who will laugh at the idea of equating a terrorist desecrating a holy site and hiding behind women and children with a competent but autocratic and power hungry ruler who's only illegal activity was trying to illegally take over the government..

 

I am no huge fan of IG (though she was the most competent at getting results she wanted of any Indian PM ever), but comparing IG to Bhindranwala is like comparing truman with Osama Bin Laden or Sarkozy with Ajmal Kasab. Laughably illogical.

 

Now stop moaning about 1984 'genocide' amongst yourselves and occasionally having the ones like Under_Score whining about why we don't call it a genocide.Genocide, as i said, is a serious charge against a country. As serious as me calling a member of your family a rapist. Just like how you won't tolerate it without any basis, so won't us without any basis.

 Not very 'Khalsa-ish' to whine and do nothing. I've already pointed you guys to the way, on how (if you guys have a real case to call it genocide) to proceed in terms of being recognized as a genocide, if Indian govt. is gonna do jack $hit. But no, you guys like to just whine, run away and make weird emotionally flawed comparisons between terrorists and leaders who've done shady stuff and have had to take military action. Not very Khalsa-ish to just whine and not do anything meaningful for your cause, despite there being a way.

As i said, it leaves only two options on the table:

 

a) you guys are too stupid/lazy/ignorant to go fight the case on international forum

b) you guys don't have a case, probably tried and failed in lawyer's meeting rooms.

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Ranvir]

32 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Obviously an organization based in Europe, will get more easy-access to Europe and be more focussed on Europe. Armenia is also, not Europe FYI and neither is turkey to most Europeans (even though they are, technically). 

Nobody said its the end all-or-be-all, but it is the start. Once Armenia got it recognized by the UN Human Rights Council, it got them recognition. 

that is the first step, you fool but you and your community are not interested, because you guys are happy just spinning fanciful tales with the truth and playing the victim or not caring (which is also good in its own, personal way). 

 

 

I have full rights to support India over Canada, if I chose to, since as a PIO who was born Indian citizen, i can re-claim my Indian citizenship at any time. So yes, for me, the option exists to chose a nation. Putting nation ahead of religion does not just mean put ONE nation ahead of religion, you fool. It also means to put concept of nation, nationality, national duty ahead of religion. 

 

And go tell this guy, to go to the UNHRC first, make the case and have his shot at glory. You may be right- Indian government has done jack $hit as well as concealed/hindered the truth. So again, why are you guys not knocking on the doors of Human rights tribunals, etc. ? maybe...just maybe...you guys got nothing to show its a government conspiracy.

Remember- if i 'chose to do nothing', i cannot be accused of genocide, period. If government makes a lucky guess, that if they stood down and did nothing, then 'ethnic group X will mass kill ethnic group Y', then chose to do so, the charge is not genocide. its criminal negligence and gross violation of human rights. 

So inorder to prove genocide, you have to prove, that there was systematic coordination from the government or systematic coordination from the government to hide its tracks.

 

So instead of pointing out a few half-ar$ed stuff thats neither here or there, go do it the proper way. Or atleast answer credibly why there is zero Sikh activity in the UNHRC or any such body about 1984. 

Same 'Eurocentric' bodies condemned Rwanda which is even less important African nobody. Surely, its not because Sikh community has less pull/power globally than Hutus and tutsis.....

 

 

I call those Sikhs, fanatics. Because i know Sikhs who will laugh at the idea of equating a terrorist desecrating a holy site and hiding behind women and children with a competent but autocratic and power hungry ruler who's only illegal activity was trying to illegally take over the government..

 

I am no huge fan of IG (though she was the most competent at getting results she wanted of any Indian PM ever), but comparing IG to Bhindranwala is like comparing truman with Osama Bin Laden or Sarkozy with Ajmal Kasab. Laughably illogical.

 

You are a traitor to Canada. You are not a citizen of India anymore, you left India because it was a shithole. India does not allow dual citizenship, it does not want people like you. You should support Canada over India in all matters.

 

You can reclaim your Indian citizenship but I highly doubt that you will as only a numbskull would give up Canadian citizenship for India's.

 

how do you get evidence when the government and police are behind atrocities? You think that's always possible. You've never heard of burying evidence?

Will the likes of George Bush or Tony Blair ever pay for the carnage they caused in the Middle East? All of which was built on lies? Are you going to tell the Iraqis to go The Hague as well? People in high society are untouchable.

 

The way it stands in India there is probably an agreement between the Congress and BJP not to screw each other over regarding the massacres each one orchestrated in 1984 and 2002.

[Muloghonto]

9 hours ago, Ranvir said:

You are a traitor to Canada. You are not a citizen of India anymore, you left India because it was a shithole. India does not allow dual citizenship, it does not want people like you. You should support Canada over India in all matters.

Stop using words you don't know the meaning of. Canada accepts multiple-citizenships. Ergo, if i support India, its fine with Canada, not directly against Canada. And if India didn't 'want' people like me, I'd not have the option to reclaim my Indian ciitzenship at any point in my life. Btw, I am ALSO a US citizen. 

9 hours ago, Ranvir said:

 

You can reclaim your Indian citizenship but I highly doubt that you will as only a numbskull would give up Canadian citizenship for India's.

Sure, but the future is full of unknowns and stranger things have happened. 

9 hours ago, Ranvir said:

 

how do you get evidence when the government and police are behind atrocities? You think that's always possible. You've never heard of burying evidence?

As i said, how do you think the Armenians got evidence ? they got evidence 60-80+ years after the event and the turks buried evidence a long,long time ago. You never heard of 'evidence of burying evidence/evidence of tampering with evidence' ? Like i said, don't whine about how it cannot be done, when others have done it from a far worse position than your folks.