Sachin Tendulkar v Virat Kohli - who is better ODI batsman?

[velu]

3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Batting first - SRT

Fielding first - Kohli

WC - SRT

Finals and knockout matches - SRT

  

Overall you now know whom to choose. 

 

sachin slightly ahead when batting first .. kohli far ahead of sachin when chasing ..

performance in the wc finals , sachin gets big big negative points ..

 

kohli ahead of sachin anyday in ODIs and i am not even a kohli fan  

[velu]

4 minutes ago, Nonbeliever said:

Sachin won 30 mom for batting after 205 innings and kohli won the same.  Pretty sure india lost more matches during sachin time effecting his chances of wining man of the match.

 

but kohli needs to compete with rohit and dhawan for MoM when we win , but sachin rarely competed with other indian batsmen ...

anyway shift the goalpost where it suits you  

[zen]

ICC Events 

 

Tendulkar

Records type batting analysis [change type]

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Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Trophy ICC Champions Trophy (ICC KnockOut)  or World Cup

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Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	1989-2012	463	452	41	18426	200*	44.83	21367	86.23	49	96	20	2016	195	Profile
filtered	1992-2011	20	20	2	920	141	51.11	1089	84.48	1	7	0	97	9

Career summary

Grouping	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v Australia	1998-2011	3	3	0	232	141	77.33	233	99.57	1	1	0	23	6
v England	1999-2006	4	4	1	116	50	38.66	153	75.81	0	1	0	15	1
v New Zealand	2003-2003	1	1	0	15	15	15.00	16	93.75	0	0	0	3	0
v Pakistan	1992-2011	5	5	1	313	98	78.25	376	83.24	0	3	0	34	1
v South Africa	2000-2002	2	2	0	55	39	27.50	79	69.62	0	0	0	5	0
v Sri Lanka	1999-2011	3	3	0	117	97	39.00	137	85.40	0	1	0	9	1
v West Indies	1996-2011	2	2	0	72	70	36.00	95	75.78	0	1	0	8	0
in Australia	1992-1992	1	1	1	54	54*	-	62	87.09	0	1	0	3	0
in Bangladesh	1998-1998	1	1	0	141	141	141.00	128	110.15	1	0	0	13	3
in England	1999-1999	3	3	0	69	45	23.00	108	63.88	0	0	0	7	0
in India	1996-2011	7	7	0	294	85	42.00	392	75.00	0	3	0	36	0
in Kenya	2000-2000	2	2	0	77	39	38.50	87	88.50	0	0	0	7	3
in South Africa	2003-2003	4	4	0	260	98	65.00	263	98.85	0	3	0	30	3
in Sri Lanka	2002-2002	2	2	1	25	16	25.00	49	51.02	0	0	0	1	0

 

 

Kohli 

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Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

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Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	2008-2019	219	211	37	10385	183	59.68	11198	92.73	39	48	12	970	113	Profile
filtered	2009-2017	15	15	5	725	107	72.50	858	84.49	1	5	0	65	8

Career summary

Grouping	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v Australia	2011-2011	1	1	0	24	24	24.00	33	72.72	0	0	0	1	0
v England	2013-2013	1	1	0	43	43	43.00	34	126.47	0	0	0	4	1
v Pakistan	2011-2017	4	4	2	219	107	109.50	242	90.49	1	1	0	17	3
v South Africa	2013-2017	3	3	1	153	76*	76.50	202	75.74	0	1	0	12	1
v Sri Lanka	2011-2013	2	2	1	93	58*	93.00	113	82.30	0	1	0	8	1
v West Indies	2009-2015	4	4	1	193	79*	64.33	234	82.47	0	2	0	23	2
in Australia	2015-2015	3	3	0	186	107	62.00	222	83.78	1	0	0	16	0
in England	2013-2017	7	7	4	333	81*	111.00	353	94.33	0	3	0	30	6
in India	2011-2011	4	4	0	127	59	31.75	179	70.94	0	1	0	10	0
in South Africa	2009-2009	1	1	1	79	79*	-	104	75.96	0	1	0	9	2

 

 

• Tendulkar has a 50+ avg against only two countries (Aus and Pak). And in two countries (BD and SA) out of 7 he has played in
• Kohli has 50+ avg against 4 countries. And in 3 out of 4 countries that he has played in (In SA, no avg) 

[velu]

1 minute ago, zen said:

ICC Events 

 

Tendulkar

Records type batting analysis [change type]

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Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Trophy ICC Champions Trophy (ICC KnockOut)  or World Cup

Match result won match

Ordered by default (ascending)

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	1989-2012	463	452	41	18426	200*	44.83	21367	86.23	49	96	20	2016	195	Profile
filtered	1992-2011	20	20	2	920	141	51.11	1089	84.48	1	7	0	97	9

Career summary

Grouping	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v Australia	1998-2011	3	3	0	232	141	77.33	233	99.57	1	1	0	23	6
v England	1999-2006	4	4	1	116	50	38.66	153	75.81	0	1	0	15	1
v New Zealand	2003-2003	1	1	0	15	15	15.00	16	93.75	0	0	0	3	0
v Pakistan	1992-2011	5	5	1	313	98	78.25	376	83.24	0	3	0	34	1
v South Africa	2000-2002	2	2	0	55	39	27.50	79	69.62	0	0	0	5	0
v Sri Lanka	1999-2011	3	3	0	117	97	39.00	137	85.40	0	1	0	9	1
v West Indies	1996-2011	2	2	0	72	70	36.00	95	75.78	0	1	0	8	0
in Australia	1992-1992	1	1	1	54	54*	-	62	87.09	0	1	0	3	0
in Bangladesh	1998-1998	1	1	0	141	141	141.00	128	110.15	1	0	0	13	3
in England	1999-1999	3	3	0	69	45	23.00	108	63.88	0	0	0	7	0
in India	1996-2011	7	7	0	294	85	42.00	392	75.00	0	3	0	36	0
in Kenya	2000-2000	2	2	0	77	39	38.50	87	88.50	0	0	0	7	3
in South Africa	2003-2003	4	4	0	260	98	65.00	263	98.85	0	3	0	30	3
in Sri Lanka	2002-2002	2	2	1	25	16	25.00	49	51.02	0	0	0	1	0

 

 

Kohli 

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Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Trophy ICC Champions Trophy (ICC KnockOut)  or World Cup

Match result won match

Ordered by default (ascending)

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	2008-2019	219	211	37	10385	183	59.68	11198	92.73	39	48	12	970	113	Profile
filtered	2009-2017	15	15	5	725	107	72.50	858	84.49	1	5	0	65	8

Career summary

Grouping	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v Australia	2011-2011	1	1	0	24	24	24.00	33	72.72	0	0	0	1	0
v England	2013-2013	1	1	0	43	43	43.00	34	126.47	0	0	0	4	1
v Pakistan	2011-2017	4	4	2	219	107	109.50	242	90.49	1	1	0	17	3
v South Africa	2013-2017	3	3	1	153	76*	76.50	202	75.74	0	1	0	12	1
v Sri Lanka	2011-2013	2	2	1	93	58*	93.00	113	82.30	0	1	0	8	1
v West Indies	2009-2015	4	4	1	193	79*	64.33	234	82.47	0	2	0	23	2
in Australia	2015-2015	3	3	0	186	107	62.00	222	83.78	1	0	0	16	0
in England	2013-2017	7	7	4	333	81*	111.00	353	94.33	0	3	0	30	6
in India	2011-2011	4	4	0	127	59	31.75	179	70.94	0	1	0	10	0
in South Africa	2009-2009	1	1	1	79	79*	-	104	75.96	0	1	0	9	2

 

 

• Tendulkar has a 50+ avg against only two countries (Aus and Pak). And in two countries (BD and SA) out of 7 he has played in
• Kohli has 50+ avg against 4 countries. And in 3 out of 4 countries that he has played in (In SA, no avg) 

 

thanks zen bhai

 

here we go .. @Trichromatic

[Trichromatic]

1 minute ago, velu said:

 

sachin slightly ahead when batting first .. kohli far ahead of sachin when chasing ..

performance in the wc finals , sachin gets big big negative points ..

 

kohli ahead of sachin anyday in ODIs and i am not even a kohli fan  

Slightly ahead. That's far ahead and it shows that batting hasn't been massive upgrade from previous generation as some posters claim here. Otherwise it was the case you would have seen at least comparable number, not such huge difference.

 

Inflated number during chases and way lower during batting first clearly shows that while mental toughness has played a big part, batsmen know that they won't be facing slower pitches and old ball to put a brake in their innings in later stages and can play normally. When this luxury goes missing batting first and they are forced to take risk, it mental toughness, better ability of hitting has taken backseat.

 

Consider SA v Pak match yesterday. What was one poor innings from Amla would have been good knock in chase if SA were chasing similar total and they had won it even in 50th over. 

[Real McCoy]

With Kohli at the crease, I have trust for him to chase down a big total. With Sachin, I always felt nervous. If he scored big, he always gets out before the target is reached leaving it to another guy to do the job. If he fell early, it completely deflates the team morale. If Sachin batted at one down, he would have won more matches. But it will have taken a beating on the stats and hundreds that Statchin liked to have.

[zen]

8 minutes ago, velu said:

 

thanks zen bhai

• Right now, Gavaskar is the best test batsman for Ind, while Kohli is the best LOI batsman 
• For the best multi-format batsman, it is b/w Kohli and Tendulkar, but Kohli probably has the edge  
• Tendulkar's best shot of winning a title is in the subjective "most talented" batsman arena 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by zen

[Nonbeliever]

1 minute ago, velu said:

 

its not surprising that you are a sachin fan ..  

only in alternate universe , batsmen whose average is under 45 is a better batsmen than a player who averages 60+ ( that too rarely he feast on minnows )

Computers are better at numbers.  Humans at emotions.

[velu]

3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Slightly ahead. That's far ahead and it shows that batting hasn't been massive upgrade from previous generation as some posters claim here. Otherwise it was the case you would have seen at least comparable number, not such huge difference.

 

Inflated number during chases and way lower during batting first clearly shows that while mental toughness has played a big part, batsmen know that they won't be facing slower pitches and old ball to put a brake in their innings in later stages and can play normally. When this luxury goes missing batting first and they are forced to take risk, it mental toughness, better ability of hitting has taken backseat.

 

Consider SA v Pak match yesterday. What was one poor innings from Amla would have been good knock in chase if SA were chasing similar total and they had won it even in 50th over. 

 

difference between kolhi and sachin is not huge when batting first ..

 

create a thread about which is easier .. batting first or batting second  ..

i dont say that batting second is tougher than batting first , but you are making it out as a very big difference

[Trichromatic]

Please stick to topic only.

[Trichromatic]

2 minutes ago, velu said:

 

difference between kolhi and sachin is not huge when batting first ..

  

create a thread about which is easier .. batting first or batting second  ..

i dont say that batting second is tougher than batting first , but you are making it out as a very big difference

Difference of 800 runs and avg difference of 10.

 

But if Kohli is better and batting has improved then why this isn't reflected in batting first. Any reasons? After all scoring is getting higher only since 2012.

[velu]

1 minute ago, Trichromatic said:

Difference of 800 runs and avg difference of 10.

 

But if Kohli is better and batting has improved then why this isn't reflected in batting first. Any reasons? After all scoring is getting higher only since 2012.

 

kohli is a better batsmen overall ..  kohli's far superior chasing record is more than compensates  

 

[Nonbeliever]

1 minute ago, Trichromatic said:

Difference of 800 runs and avg difference of 10.

 

But if Kohli is better and batting has improved then why this isn't reflected in batting first. Any reasons? After all scoring is getting higher only since 2012.

Indian bowling attack doing better in restricting opposition at sub par scores. Tendulkar did not have that luxury.  Kohli is chasing targets that are most of the times below par on a particular pitch and against poor attacks.

[zen]

19 minutes ago, velu said:

 

but kohli needs to compete with rohit and dhawan for MoM when we win , but sachin rarely competed with other indian batsmen ...

anyway shift the goalpost where it suits you  

MOM can be subjective at times. And in Ind, Sachin used to get it by default iirc .... below is Innings per 100 in matches won. Kohli is far ahead 

 

Innings per 100 in matches won 

 

[Trichromatic]

4 minutes ago, velu said:

 

kohli is a better batsmen overall ..  kohli's far superior chasing record is more than compensates  

 

I mentioned reason for better chasing. But why his batting hasn't been comparable batting first?

[velu]

 

sachin stats when chasing for the same period  .. 

 

 

 

kohlis when chasing

 

 

when batting first .. sachin ahead by 10 runs

when chasing .. kohli ahead by 30 runs ( almost double that of sachins average when chasing )

[Trichromatic]

2 minutes ago, velu said:

 

sachin stats when chasing for the same period  .. 

 

 

 

kohlis when chasing

 

 

when batting first .. sachin ahead by 10 runs

 when chasing .. kohli ahead by 30 runs ( almost double that of sachins average when chasing )

So, the question is batsman who is so much ahead while chasing, should be at similar level batting first. Why is there a difference?

 

When you have such discrepancy in stats, it shows that either one type of condition is tougher (like 4th inning in tests) or other type has been very easy (like Mahela's stats in Colombo).

[velu]

3 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

I mentioned reason for better chasing. But why his batting hasn't been comparable batting first?

1 minute ago, Trichromatic said:

So, the question is batsman who is so much ahead while chasing, should be at similar level batting first. Why is there a difference?

 

some are good when batting first and some are good when chasing .. kohli falls in the second category

sachins record when chasing is  poor by his standards .. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by velu

[zen]

11 minutes ago, velu said:

 

difference between kolhi and sachin is not huge when batting first ..

I have not followed the discussion, but FYI Kohli is also ahead when batting first vs the top 7 teams 

 

Tendulkar

Records type batting analysis [change type]

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Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Batting or fielding first batting first

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Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	1989-2012	463	452	41	18426	200*	44.83	21367	86.23	49	96	20	2016	195	Profile
filtered	1990-2012	192	191	13	8208	200*	46.11	9879	83.08	27	37	5	842	82

 

 

Kohli

Records type batting analysis [change type]

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Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Batting or fielding first batting first

Ordered by default (ascending)

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	2008-2019	219	211	37	10385	183	59.68	11198	92.73	39	48	12	970	113	Profile
filtered	2008-2018	83	82	7	3811	160*	50.81	4204	90.65	14	19	7	317	38

 

 

And Innings per 100

 

[velu]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

MOM can be subjective at times. And in Ind, Sachin used to get it by default iirc .... below is Innings per 100 in matches won. Kohli is far ahead 

 

Innings per 100 in matches won 

 

 

he will finish it with atleast 60+ ODI tons