Hardik Pandya as bowler

[sarcastic]

7 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

You want Pandya to reach Kallis calibre, and that's before you bring him into the test team.   That's hilarious.   

Well, Kallis is a bench mark that Hardik can and should aspire to reach if he is to be considered an allrounder in test cricket. I m not necessarily putting it behind him to reach there. Also, even if he is 60-80 % of Kallis in bowling, that should be good enough. 

Main point is, a bits and pieces allrounder is welcome in T20 cricket, alright in ODI cricket but simply not good enough for a test spot. Hardik is almost a batting allrounder in LOI cricket and is perfectly deserving of his place in the side. In test cricket, he has to improve him bowling to another level. He cannot be just a part-time bowling option to relieve the main bowlers (like Ganguly). For that, he got to be a batsman like Ganguly which he is clearly not right now. 

[putrevus]

People are underestimating how fast Kallis could bowl. Kallis is built like an ox with those bucket hands and he bowled heavy ball.

Pandya right now is text book definition of bits and pieces player.In test matches they are a big no as they don't bring any value to the team.

 

We all are seeing what Woakes and Ali who are better than Pandya as all rounders doing in Australia.1980s/90s India was filled with these bits and piece players like Binny, Shastri and Prabhakar. In odis it will Pandya might work but I have lot of doubts if he is going to be any good in tests.

 

 

 

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

People are underestimating how fast Kallis could bowl. Kallis is built like an ox with those bucket hands and he bowled heavy ball.

Pandya right now is text book definition of bits and pieces player.In test matches they are a big no as they don't bring any value to the team.

 

We all are seeing what Woakes and Ali who are better than Pandya as all rounders doing in Australia.1980s/90s India was filled with these bits and piece players like Binny, Shastri and Prabhakar. In odis it will Pandya might work but I have lot of doubts if he is going to be any good in tests.

 

 

 

kallis could and did bowl in the 140s fairly often, esp. when he opened bowling for SA in odis. of the 3 bits-and-pieces, shastri was at least a semi-decent bat given that he initially started as a bowler. but his bowling was extremely toothless

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

kallis could and did bowl in the 140s fairly often, esp. when he opened bowling for SA in odis. of the 3 bits-and-pieces, shastri was at least a semi-decent bat given that he initially started as a bowler. but his bowling was extremely toothless

Shastri had limited talent and to his credit he made himself into a very good player.If Binny played in England he would have been a super star.He underachieved with bat but he was a very good batsmen with very sound technique.Prabhakar again had a very decent career. Binny was instrumental in India winning two major championships.

 

I don't think Pandya is better than any three of them.But in tests you need solid skills either as batsman or bowlers bits and pieces will not work.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

Shastri had limited talent and to his credit he made himself into a very good player.If Binny played in England he would have been a super star.He underachieved with bat but he was a very good batsmen with very sound technique.Prabhakar again had a very decent career. Binny was instrumental in India winning two major championships.

 

I don't think Pandya is better than any three of them.But in tests you need solid skills either as batsman or bowlers bits and pieces will not work.

binny and prabhakar were better bowlers than pandya and that was their main skill set. i think bits and pieces work if there's an abundance of quality batsmen, bowlers and allrounders otherwise. thinking of sa here who had players like symcox, boje, etc. in tests

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, Vijy said:

binny and prabhakar were better bowlers than pandya and that was their main skill set. i think bits and pieces work if there's an abundance of quality batsmen, bowlers and allrounders otherwise. thinking of sa here who had players like symcox, boje, etc. in tests

I don't know if Pandya is better batsman them either.Prabhakar and Binny both opened for India in test matches.Binny was a regular opener for Karnataka. 

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

I don't know if Pandya is better batsman them either.Prabhakar and Binny both opened for India in test matches.Binny was a regular opener for Karnataka. 

Yes, they did both open but some of our selectorial decisions were questionable. I see both Binny and Madan Lal as domestic-level bats. I feel they were a few notches below international class as batsmen, and their averages are a fairly accurate reflection of that (rather than under-achieving).

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, sarcastic said:

Well, Kallis is a bench mark that Hardik can and should aspire to reach if he is to be considered an allrounder in test cricket. I m not necessarily putting it behind him to reach there. Also, even if he is 60-80 % of Kallis in bowling, that should be good enough. 

Main point is, a bits and pieces allrounder is welcome in T20 cricket, alright in ODI cricket but simply not good enough for a test spot. Hardik is almost a batting allrounder in LOI cricket and is perfectly deserving of his place in the side. In test cricket, he has to improve him bowling to another level. He cannot be just a part-time bowling option to relieve the main bowlers (like Ganguly). For that, he got to be a batsman like Ganguly which he is clearly not right now. 

Yeah, he's not quite ready for primetime in terms of test cricket, but its a bit of chicken and egg thing with him.  He needs game time to improve, and he needs to improve to deserve game time.   

 

As someone else said, the rest of the XI has to be very solid, to carry Hardik Pandya in the team, at this point in time.  Its a shame he didn't play in the Kolkata test against SL, would have been a good opportunity to pick up some test cricket in seamer friendly conditions.  But it is what it is.  

[Vijy]

19 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Yeah, he's not quite ready for primetime in terms of test cricket, but its a bit of chicken and egg thing with him.  He needs game time to improve, and he needs to improve to deserve game time.   

 

As someone else said, the rest of the XI has to be very solid, to carry Hardik Pandya in the team, at this point in time.  Its a shame he didn't play in the Kolkata test against SL, would have been a good opportunity to pick up some test cricket in seamer friendly conditions.  But it is what it is.  

yes, should have played against SL in a couple of matches. more experience and can also boost confidence (and stats) against them.

[Artie]

Watched a bit yesterday, he has really good potential with the ball. Decent pace and looks like proper quick. Just need a vote of confidence to develop in a balanced all-rounder.

[sandeep]

6 hours ago, Artie said:

Watched a bit yesterday, he has really good potential with the ball. Decent pace and looks like proper quick. Just need a vote of confidence to develop in a balanced all-rounder.

He's more of a Klusener/Razzaq type i.e. better batsman than bowler, although he does have pace.  Very young and raw - and he didn't start bowling until 2-3 years ago.  

[Rightarmfast]

On 12/19/2017 at 7:45 PM, Vijy said:

binny and prabhakar were better bowlers than pandya and that was their main skill set. i think bits and pieces work if there's an abundance of quality batsmen, bowlers and allrounders otherwise. thinking of sa here who had players like symcox, boje, etc. in tests

Not necessarily. Pandya is still raw. Neither Binny nor Prabhakar had pace, Pandya can bowl in and around 145. It was the lack of bowlers then that Prabhakar and Binny were either opening or getting so many overs. 

Pandya as a matter of fact is a pretty decent fast medium bowler. He has got his basics right, with time he will improve if he keeps his head intact.

 

Kluesener bowled genuine pace only for first 6 months or so. After that, he became a military medium bowler. As such, noone feared his bowling, Pandya is not in the same moulds. He can be compared with Razzaq, although Pandya is a better batsman than him.

[Artie]

He could really be a Stokes for India. Very similar talents from what I can see.

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Not necessarily. Pandya is still raw. Neither Binny nor Prabhakar had pace, Pandya can bowl in and around 145. It was the lack of bowlers then that Prabhakar and Binny were either opening or getting so many overs. 

Pandya as a matter of fact is a pretty decent fast medium bowler. He has got his basics right, with time he will improve if he keeps his head intact.

 

Kluesener bowled genuine pace only for first 6 months or so. After that, he became a military medium bowler. As such, noone feared his bowling, Pandya is not in the same moulds. He can be compared with Razzaq, although Pandya is a better batsman than him.

pandya can not bowl around 145 kmph consistently. he bowls over 140 a few times that's about it. both prabhakar and binny were more skilled bowlers, esp. in Eng conditions.

[Rightarmfast]

13 hours ago, Vijy said:

pandya can not bowl around 145 kmph consistently. he bowls over 140 a few times that's about it. both prabhakar and binny were more skilled bowlers, esp. in Eng conditions.

' In English conditions'! Most of the tom, dicks and harry's are successful there. Even Md Amir, the trundler was bowling like an above average bowler in England.

 

You need to wait for Pandya to bowl in England btw. Pandya bowls anywhere from 134ish to 145ish. And tends to hover around 140 quite regularly, which is more than decent pace. Binny and Prabhakar were skilled with time, yet Prabhakar doesnt have much to show, neither Binny. Had they been so skilled, India wouldn't have been a near minnow team in 80's and early 90's.