Vernon Philander - all wrongs make a right

[Brainfade]

Just now, Tattieboy said:

Just maybe he bowls accordingly to what is in front of him and bowls to the weakness he is seeing at the time and not worrying if he  lands in the crease at 46.5mph or bowling a  speed of 145.677 because it's a Tuesday and Wednesday will mean 144.4555

Yep. That's why it is intriguing.  When you're looking at the other team's guys discussing whom you should worry about, he is a bit of an afterthought.  Understated, undersold.  But, he gets results.  I can't think think of another seamer who fits that description.

[Shunya]

Maybe playing alongside Steyn, Morkel, Rabada has some benefits in addition to obvious helpful conditions at home.

Have to agree to most points though, he is the king of military medium pace bowling- Dunno how does he picks so many wickets.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Shunya

[Tattieboy]

11 minutes ago, Brainfade said:

Yep. That's why it is intriguing.  When you're looking at the other team's guys discussing whom you should worry about, he is a bit of an afterthought.  Understated, undersold.  But, he gets results.  I can't think think of another seamer who fits that description.

You mean Indian non cricketers on forums...First class cricketers know exactly what he can do 

[Brainfade]

Just now, Tattieboy said:

You mean Indian non cricketers on forums...First class cricketers know exactly what he can do 

The numbers don't lie, either.  Any rational observer can see that and pay attention.  But, if you are a fan looking for a spectacle of 145 k bouncers and figures of 10-1-35-8, he's not the guy.  Doesn't strike fear, just gets it done.

[Cricketics]

He took the game away from India believe it or not. Kohli and Sharma were kind of looking to score some runs and rotating strike and I felt India are in for a chance here and can take the game.

 

Maharaj was warming up, yes he was ready to come next over, but he struck the wicket. Him getting Kohli out turned the game back in favor of South Africa again. India still had about 40 percent chance then, but he struck just about at the right time.

[Temujin Khaghan]

biggest difference b/w philander and Indian trundlers like Mohit and Vinay is pin point accuracy and precision. 

also stamina.

 

unlike Asif, philander doesn't even have the wobbler in his arsenal. he bowls cutters and swings the ball at 80mph

[Tattieboy]

6 minutes ago, Brainfade said:

The numbers don't lie, either.  Any rational observer can see that and pay attention.  But, if you are a fan looking for a spectacle of 145 k bouncers and figures of 10-1-35-8, he's not the guy.  Doesn't strike fear, just gets it done.

Believe me,  even test players don't like 80mph guys who are always accurate and swing and seam it about 

[speedheat]

So what?? Lol, we the team India have this rare ability to make 'lallus' look good, last time I searched we gifted all time great darter moeen Ali a bucket full of wickets in England making him look murlitharan part2  

[Brainfade]

Just now, speedheat said:

So what?? Lol, we the team India have this rare ability to make 'lallus' look good, last time I searched we gifted all time great darter moeen Ali a bucket full of wickets in England making him look murlitharan part2  

True, but it's not about just this match. Looking at his numbers from 48 tests, he is a very effective bowler.  Even in away tests, he averages mid-20s.  

[Tattieboy]

2 minutes ago, speedheat said:

So what?? Lol, we the team India have this rare ability to make 'lallus' look good, last time I searched we gifted all time great darter moeen Ali a bucket full of wickets in England making him look murlitharan part2  

Come on ...India makes every bowler look world beaters outside Asia 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Tattieboy said:

Believe me,  even test players don't like 80mph guys who are always accurate and swing and seam it about 

 

In the T20 era, post 2010, that is the case.

 

Before that, I can't think of a single medium-pacer who has averaged less than 26 in tests while taking 200+ wickets. ( last 50 years )

Edited January 8, 2018 by express bowling

[Artie]

He has bowled Australia out for 47 and 86. Why is everyone so surprised? Basic virtues of bowling: Accuracy, seam position, control and bowling intelligence. Best new ball bowler on the planet.

[Tattieboy]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

In the T20 era, post 2010, that is the case.

 

Before that, I can't think of a single medium-pacer who has averaged less than 26 in tests while taking 200+ wickets.

Alex Bedser,  Richard Hadlee,  

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Alex Bedser,  Richard Hadlee,  

 

Hadlee was fast-medium during the first 8 years or so of his career ..... after that, experience compensates for loss of pace.

 

I should have said , " last 50 years "  in my post.  Cricket before that was not played that professionally.

 

Point is .... accurate medium pacers of the last 50 years are doing well primarily in the T20 era when batters have developed poor techniques against the accurate moving ball.

[sensible-indian]

Wasn't he getting late outswing consistently in the latter spells?

[Tattieboy]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

Hadlee was fast-medium during the first 8 years or so of his career ..... after that, experience compensates for loss of pace.

 

I should have said , " last 50 years "  in my post.  Cricket before that was not played that professionally.

 

Point is .... accurate medium pacers of the last 50 years are doing well primarily in the T20 era when batters have developed poor techniques against the accurate moving ball.

I know what Hadlee  was...I faced him lol

Actually his first few years he was medium then increased a bit 

[sensible-indian]

1 hour ago, Temujin Khaghan said:

biggest difference b/w philander and Indian trundlers like Mohit and Vinay is pin point accuracy and precision. 

also stamina.

 

unlike Asif, philander doesn't even have the wobbler in his arsenal. he bowls cutters and swings the ball at 80mph

I don't know the nitty gritty of fast bowling but I reckon its a LOT more than mere accuracy.

Vernon simply gets the ball to do more.

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

I know what Hadlee  was...I faced him lol

Actually his first few years he was medium then increased a bit 

 

1.  You are saying you faced him  .... maybe you did, but I have no way of checking it.

 

2.  International batters who have faced him in his earlier life claim that he had pace.... and I was basing my opinion on that.  I have watched international cricket only from end 1982. and he was 30+ then.

 

3.  Even if I assume that he was medium paced, he is still a very rare case of a medium pacer with 200+ wickets averaging less than 26 in tests between 1967 and 2009.

Edited January 8, 2018 by express bowling

[Tattieboy]

14 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

1.  You are saying you faced him  .... maybe you did, but I have no way of checking it.

 

2.  International batters who have faced him in his earlier life claim that he had pace.... and I was basing my opinion on that.  I have watched international cricket only from end 1982. and he was 30+ then.

 

3.  Even if I assume that he was medium paced, he is still a very rare case of a medium pacer with 200+ wickets averaging less than 26 in tests between 1967 and 2009.

Yes maybe I did 

Slower than Raj Kulkarni of Bombay and India but quicker  than Mohinder Armanath when he bowled. Lol 

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Tattieboy said:

Yes maybe I did 

Slower than Raj Kulkarni of Bombay and India but quicker  than Mohinder Armanath when he bowled. Lol 

 

Was it an international match  ?  Many international bowlers bowl within themselves in other matches.

 

But, my main point was about almost all really successful test pacers between 1967 and 2009 being either fast or fast-medium. The pace of only Hadlee does not change that.