Internet existed during Mahabharata period: Tripura CM

[coffee_rules]

4 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

And a lot of those 'western scholars' are people who can speak fluent Sanskrit and know more Sanskrit than 99.99% hinduvta idiots. So your racist argument, actually has no merit. 

Speaking fluent Sanskrit doesn't mean they are are an authority to decide in matters of history. They learn from some local dhongis in Kashi/Varnasi and publish it in an academic paper, get peer-reviewed and tout as authentic sources. The gyaan on vedas is not attained like this among Hindu scholars (not hindutva idiots, I agree). It is by living in the culture, knowing the traditions that is passed on for generations, only then he can be called a scholar. So, there is a basic difference in education system.  There are sepoys like Dr. Narayan Murthy who believes more in outsiders' knowledge of Indian scriptures rather than swadeshi. Sheldon Pollock, who swears to be an authority on Sanskrit goes around saying Sanskrit litreture (Kalidasa etc.)  started only after 1700 or so, nothing comes out in the 9th century etc. If that is their level of knowledge, we should reject them outright. Every ancient culture protect their knowledge base (Chinese for e.g) and won't let outsiders dictate what we believe is correct. And we have libtards selling them out and mock our scholars' work as vedic fantasies. 

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Garuda said:

Referring to yourself in the third person that too on the internet. What do you think this place is? some kinda gladiator arena. You do that in the real world and your ready for an asskicking.

LOL. 

Its funny to hear someone make threats over the internet, coz they are offended by something they read over the internet. In my experience people who make threats over the internet are just bullied, shy people in real life most of the time. 

 

Don't worry,if you actually wanna learn, then i can show u how to learn history. Or if you really want me to demolish hinduvta historical arguments for the millionth time, when it comes to Mahabharata, Ramayana, etc- i can oblige. At this point i just have to dig up old threads and cut-paste, since you are not raising any new questions. Easy peasy. 

[Muloghonto]

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Speaking fluent Sanskrit doesn't mean they are are an authority to decide in matters of history.

If they speak fluent Sanskrit and have a PhD in history, then indeed, it makes them authorities in decieding matters of history. Which is more than 99.99% of so-called Hinduvta scholars like Talegieri and such. 

 

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

They learn from some local dhongis in Kashi/Varnasi and publish it in an academic paper, get peer-reviewed and tout as authentic sources.

They learn Sanskrit, from those who can speak & understand Sanskrit. Some are in India but in my experience, the prime authorities in Sanskrit are usually German scholars - Germany has more Sankrit professors than India for eg.  But some do come to India to learn it too. And yes, then they publish their work, after spending 10+ years earning PhDs in the field. Its the proper way. 

 

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

The gyaan on vedas is not attained like this among Hindu scholars (not hindutva idiots, I agree). It is by living in the culture, knowing the traditions that is passed on for generations, only then he can be called a scholar. So, there is a basic difference in education system. 

I am sorry thats nonsense. Gyaan that 'has to be lived but cannot be read and understood' is simple-speak for brainwashing. Muslims, Christians, etc. too make the exact same argument- that the bible/koran cannot be fully understood without living by its rules first. Its a co-opting method- once you start living by a code, you become partial towards that code and more favorable towards it, as habituation breeds acceptance is a basic fact of human psychology.

 

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

There are sepoys like Dr. Narayan Murthy who believes more in outsiders' knowledge of Indian scriptures rather than swadeshi.

Because outsider scholarship is far more robust than Swadeshi. Desh-videshi is irrelevant to who has more knowledge on a topic. 

 

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Sheldon Pollock, who swears to be an authority on Sanskrit goes around saying Sanskrit litreture (Kalidasa etc.)  started only after 1700 or so, nothing comes out in the 9th century etc. If that is their level of knowledge, we should reject them outright. Every ancient culture protect their knowledge base (Chinese for e.g) and won't let outsiders dictate what we believe is correct. And we have libtards selling them out and mock our scholars' work as vedic fantasies. 

Err, China spent far more time doctoring their history to fix marxist (foreign) ideals than India has for foreign versions. You clearly havn't read Chinese history books. They openly disparage their entire history as exploitative class dynamics that is inferior to their proleteriat. These are from their highschool & college level texts, so very easy to find. The standard chinese history book openly calls Confucianist doctrine as inferior and a tool of the upper classes to suppress the lower class.

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, Garuda said:

Im not threatening it will happen. Try it out in your adoptive country

In my adoptive country, assault is a criminal offence that gets routinely prosecuted, if charges are pressed. Its not goonda-raj like India here, bud. 

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, Garuda said:

Since you claim your american why dont you sign up for NFL forums and leave this low cultured forum alone. why play marco polo with us.

Because you don't get to tell me what to do. Simple.

[Alam_dar]

Marco Polo wrote about Kashmir in one of his book, which is even doubted.

 

But here is Quran and then dozens of authentic Ahadith (traditions) which testify that Allah sent 1000 angels to fight against Kuffar of Mecca in the battle of Badar, while 5000 angles were sent to fight in the battle of Uhud (although Muslims lost it). 

 

Why then only to believe in Marco Polo. Let us also then believe in Quran and Traditions which are numerous in numbers as compared to Marco Polo. 

[coffee_rules]

11 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

They learn Sanskrit, from those who can speak & understand Sanskrit. Some are in India but in my experience, the prime authorities in Sanskrit are usually German scholars - Germany has more Sankrit professors than India for eg.  But some do come to India to learn it too. And yes, then they publish their work, after spending 10+ years earning PhDs in the field. Its the proper way. 

Anecdotes don't evidence make.

11 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I am sorry thats nonsense. Gyaan that 'has to be lived but cannot be read and understood' is simple-speak for brainwashing. Muslims, Christians, etc. too make the exact same argument- that the bible/koran cannot be fully understood without living by its rules first. Its a co-opting method- once you start living by a code, you become partial towards that code and more favorable towards it, as habituation breeds acceptance is a basic fact of human psychology.

That's the basis of understanding the language to know the culture/traditions. If you don't know the significance of 'rangoli' and mere translation of 'colorful design' will not make you an authority.

 

11 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Because outsider scholarship is far more robust than Swadeshi. Desh-videshi is irrelevant to who has more knowledge on a topic. 

If we believe in outsiders' knowledge more than our own, then we are still living in colonial times and have not come out of the slavery to white masters.  People like Sheldon Pollock, Wendy Donniger, Audrey Truschke etc, are ignorant of our language/culture and there is something wrong in desi people believing them to be better than us .

11 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Err, China spent far more time doctoring their history to fix marxist (foreign) ideals than India has for foreign versions. You clearly havn't read Chinese history books. They openly disparage their entire history as exploitative class dynamics that is inferior to their proleteriat. These are from their highschool & college level texts, so very easy to find. The standard chinese history book openly calls Confucianist doctrine as inferior and a tool of the upper classes to suppress the lower class.

Tell them Confucius lived only in the 10th century with some peer-reviewed authentic source and see what happens.

[Alam_dar]

In fact it is so interesting to study the Extremists of different religions. 

 

To my surprise, there is hardly any difference in their approach and attitude, although they belong to two entirely different religions. Both of them for sure are the two sides of same coin. 

 

Do you know that Zakir Naik has written a whole Book about "scientific wonders" in Quran?  From big bang till now every scientific wonder has been told in Quran, and it is science which is proving Quran (according to Muslim logic). 

 

All the Muslims believe in these scientific wonders of Quran too. 

 

Actually Quran itself claims that knowledge of every dry and wet thing has been described in Quran, but only the people with true hearts (Ahle Dhikr) could understand it. So, the fault in in the human beings who are not able to see these scientific wonders in Quran. 

[Muloghonto]

55 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Anecdotes don't evidence make.

None of those are anecdotes.

55 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

That's the basis of understanding the language to know the culture/traditions. If you don't know the significance of 'rangoli' and mere translation of 'colorful design' will not make you an authority.

Irrelevant to understanding the Vedas, Upanishads or the Purans. Modern India is not 1000 BC India either, so one does not need 'cultural immersive experience' to understand the distant past. 
If they talk about Rangoli or Dandiya TODAY, sure your point is valid. But your knowledge on how sramanas and brahmins lived 3000 years ago, is not dependent on you being Indian or not. 

 

55 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

If we believe in outsiders' knowledge more than our own, then we are still living in colonial times and have not come out of the slavery to white masters.  People like Sheldon Pollock, Wendy Donniger, Audrey Truschke etc, are ignorant of our language/culture and there is something wrong in desi people believing them to be better than us .

 

Its sad that your inferior knowledge ancestors were more wise in this regard than you. Outsider, insider, does not matter. Only knowledge, expertese, education matters. I'd rather listen to a Russian who's done his/her research on India, than some desi with no education spouting nonsense. 

 

They are better authorities,because they are better educated on the subject matter. Simple. 

 

55 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Tell them Confucius lived only in the 10th century with some peer-reviewed authentic source and see what happens.

Except, as i said, Chinese history is far superior in its recording than Indian history. All Confucist writers are unanimous on EXACTLY when Confucious lived - they name his father, his genealogy. They name the Duke he served under. We also have bronze seals of the very same Dukes. 

As a result, Confucious is EXACTLY dated from 551-479 BC. 

Mahabharata/Ramayana simply does not have that robustness in accurate dating, neither do we have any archaeological evidece of these chaps ( no seal ever found of anyone from Ramayana/Mahabharata etc). 

[coffee_rules]

57 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

None of those are anecdotes.

Irrelevant to understanding the Vedas, Upanishads or the Purans. Modern India is not 1000 BC India either, so one does not need 'cultural immersive experience' to understand the distant past. 
If they talk about Rangoli or Dandiya TODAY, sure your point is valid. But your knowledge on how sramanas and brahmins lived 3000 years ago, is not dependent on you being Indian or not. 

That was just an example, there are so many non-translatables in Sanskrit, we can read translations of Sanskrit in English and claim to be an expert. That's what the western academy is good enough for. 

57 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Its sad that your inferior knowledge ancestors were more wise in this regard than you. Outsider, insider, does not matter. Only knowledge, expertese, education matters. I'd rather listen to a Russian who's done his/her research on India, than some desi with no education spouting nonsense. 

Believe in your superficial knowledge, while one needs to question the intent of earlier historians and call out their agenda and wrong doing and reset the course of history.

57 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

They are better authorities,because they are better educated on the subject matter. Simple. 

WHo's to say that, blind followers such as you and a few basking in knowledge echoed by peer-reviewed echo chambers?

 

57 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Except, as i said, Chinese history is far superior in its recording than Indian history. All Confucist writers are unanimous on EXACTLY when Confucious lived - they name his father, his genealogy. They name the Duke he served under. We also have bronze seals of the very same Dukes. 

As a result, Confucious is EXACTLY dated from 551-479 BC. 

Mahabharata/Ramayana simply does not have that robustness in accurate dating, neither do we have any archaeological evidece of these chaps ( no seal ever found of anyone from Ramayana/Mahabharata etc). 

That's why we need to dig into the text and find evidence that can be agreed chientifically. Somewhere in 1700s western colonial historins came up with a date of 2000 years old and Aryan Invasion etc. and then modern academy toes the line. There is a biblical connection to not dating vedas before Abraham, and  atheists also believe this version of history that was set as agenda by western evangelical christian historians.

 

[Muloghonto]

21 minutes ago, Green Monster said:

please proof it brother, no more bakwas in this thread please

I stated an opinion. 

Go back to school to learn what is a positive claim and what is an opinion, kiddo.

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

That was just an example, there are so many non-translatables in Sanskrit, we can read translations of Sanskrit in English and claim to be an expert. That's what the western academy is good enough for. 

What nonsense is this ? If its non-translatable, then nobody knows it either, since nobody speaks Sanskrit as first language anymore either. We ALL rely on translations. 

4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Believe in your superficial knowledge, while one needs to question the intent of earlier historians and call out their agenda and wrong doing and reset the course of history.

What superficial knowledge lol. A grade 9 kid knows about existence of universe  than the wisest sage of the Vedas and Upanishads and such. 

4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

WHo's to say that, blind followers such as you and a few basking in knowledge echoed by peer-reviewed echo chambers?

Better than self-serving claims of self-aggrandizing hindus/muslims who want to overglorify their past and lack the education for it. 

 

4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

That's why we need to dig into the text and find evidence that can be agreed chientifically. Somewhere in 1700s western colonial historins came up with a date of 2000 years old and Aryan Invasion etc. and then modern academy toes the line. There is a biblical connection to not dating vedas before Abraham, and  atheists also believe this version of history that was set as agenda by western evangelical christian historians.

 

There isn't any evidence. The texts themselves are inferior, as i have pointed out. No-matter how much digging you do, it wont change the fact that Mahabharata is inferior to the Shiji as a historical document. 

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, Green Monster said:

caught again 

Says the guy running away form presenting evidence and asking the others to do the same...hypocrite!

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

What nonsense is this ? If its non-translatable, then nobody knows it either, since nobody speaks Sanskrit as first language anymore either. We ALL rely on translations. 

That is the basic problem with these western sanskrit scholars experts in reading wrongly translated text and misrepresenting facts. For eg:

 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

52 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

That is the basic problem with these western sanskrit scholars experts in reading wrongly translated text and misrepresenting facts. For eg:

 

 

 

vast difference between quoting a random website and reading an actual scholarly work on it.

 

[maniac]

While I agree this statement is over the top and ridiculous....However,Well this is a culture that has calculated the Earth's circumference,distance from the sun,made break troughs in mathematics ,written a book on economics that still holds value to this day-I mean while it is cool to read SUn Tzu Art of war,Arthashastra is still relevant to this day. All this happened many years before christ.

 

On the other hand,we have been invaded by cultures that believe woman came from a man's rib, Earth is flat etc etc etc 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if some knowledge was lost during these years. Obviously missile trchnology,satellite etc etc is a little over the top,some research has been definitely lost.

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Garuda said:

You actually think marco polo is a schoalr

No, he is a first hand source. A person who was there, said 'i saw this'. Its of higher credibility than people 800 years later going ' i dont believe you, but i wasnt there and i have no other first hand source either'.

 

[MechEng]

31 minutes ago, maniac said:

While I agree this statement is over the top and ridiculous....However,Well this is a culture that has calculated the Earth's circumference,distance from the sun,made break troughs in mathematics ,written a book on economics that still holds value to this day-I mean while it is cool to read SUn Tzu Art of war,Arthashastra is still relevant to this day. All this happened many years before christ.

 

On the other hand,we have been invaded by cultures that believe woman came from a man's rib, Earth is flat etc etc etc 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if some knowledge was lost during these years. Obviously missile trchnology,satellite etc etc is a little over the top,some research has been definitely lost.

What's so cool about Sun Tzu Art of war? I just don't get it, it's a popular book. But it does reflect on what things people value, firstly the book became popular only after it got recognised in west and secondly it's a book on war. 

[Muloghonto]

41 minutes ago, maniac said:

While I agree this statement is over the top and ridiculous....However,Well this is a culture that has calculated the Earth's circumference,distance from the sun,made break troughs in mathematics ,written a book on economics that still holds value to this day-I mean while it is cool to read SUn Tzu Art of war,Arthashastra is still relevant to this day. All this happened many years before christ.

 

On the other hand,we have been invaded by cultures that believe woman came from a man's rib, Earth is flat etc etc etc 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if some knowledge was lost during these years. Obviously missile trchnology,satellite etc etc is a little over the top,some research has been definitely lost.

have you actually read the arthashastra ? whats your opinion of it ?

[maniac]

14 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

have you actually read the arthashastra ? whats your opinion of it ?

No I haven’t read the Arthashasthra cover to cover....funny because it is on my reading list soon but I have read excerpts  mostly

Due to   interpretations and summations of Kautilya’s work over the years  on topic such as governance,taxation or even currency over the years.

 

I have read the art of war though...free on Kindle store btw  My opinion on it is, while I don’t get the hype for it in this day and age while some of the concepts might be “outdated” (no kidding) like chopping of heads of the king’s concubines etc ...I can see why it was considered ahead of its time for that era.