express bowling Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, zen said: .... the issue here is using the "wishlist" to attack (from the impression I get) relative top performers like Pujara, and when others are not even performing at his level .... If Pujara's average was closer to 40 (currently 50) it would have been understandable to question his place (and when we already know his strengths and weaknesses) I have criticized all our batsmen who have let us down in the 2 big away tours this year. But you can only " hear " the Pujara bit. How do good averages matter if very few impact innings are being played against top teams ? Both Rohit Sharma and Dhawan average 61 in tests in Asia. Are we asking for them in this test series because of that that ? Rahane averages 57 in Australia. Why are you asking for his exclusion from the Australian tour if averages are be all and end all ? P.s - I am not asking for Pujara to be dropped. And that is not because of his overall average of 49. But because he played an impact innings of 132 in England. It gives me hope that he may replicate it again in Australia. Quote Posted by me View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Nov 2016 Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 20 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 5 of 5 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s V Kohli 2016-2018 24 41 4 2732 243 73.83 4195 65.12 11 7 3 281 8 CA Pujara 2016-2018 25 42 2 2040 202 51.00 4491 45.42 7 9 3 235 4 KL Rahul 2016-2018 21 34 1 1249 199 37.84 2082 59.99 2 10 5 154 6 AM Rahane 2016-2018 22 37 2 982 132 28.05 2122 46.27 1 5 3 105 4 R Ashwin 2016-2018 24 35 2 786 72 23.81 1398 56.22 0 5 1 98 3 Posted by EB View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or South Africa or West Indies Home or away away (home of opposition) Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Nov 2016 Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 5 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 11 of 11 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s V Kohli 8 16 0 879 153 54.93 1500 58.60 3 4 1 102 1 CA Pujara 7 14 1 378 132* 29.07 1068 35.39 1 2 2 48 0 AM Rahane 6 12 0 314 81 26.16 734 42.77 0 2 1 34 0 KL Rahul 7 14 0 329 149 23.50 551 59.70 1 0 2 48 1 HH Pandya 7 14 1 283 93 21.76 461 61.38 0 2 2 42 2 R Ashwin 6 12 2 216 38 21.60 321 67.28 0 0 0 33 1 S Dhawan 5 10 0 194 44 19.40 325 59.69 0 0 0 28 0 M Vijay 5 10 0 128 46 12.80 434 29.49 0 0 2 15 0 What is the point of posting the same stats repeatedly in the same thread ! Edited October 8, 2018 by express bowling Lannister 1 Link to comment
zen Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, express bowling said: I have criticized all our batsmen who have let us down in the 2 big away tours this year. But you can only " hear " the Pujara bit. How do good averages matter if very few impact innings are being played against top teams ? P.s - I am not asking for Pujara to be dropped. And that is not because of his overall average of 49. But because he played an impact innings of 132 in England. It gives me hope that he may replicate it again in Australia. A career avg of around 50 is an accepted standard and accounts for performances in various scenarios Recently Pujara has done better than others excluding Kohli. If Kohli had numbers like Pujara in SENA/Overseas, i guess, he would not have been criticised Considering playing vs strong teams, Pujara is among our top 5-7 batsmen in terms of avg, innings per 100, etc. View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 10 and runs scored greater than or equal to 2000 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 36 of 36 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 V Kohli 2011-2018 70 120 8 6030 243 53.83 23 19 7 SM Gavaskar 1971-1987 125 214 16 10122 236* 51.12 34 45 12 SR Tendulkar 1989-2013 184 306 28 14183 241* 51.01 43 65 13 R Dravid 1996-2012 147 261 27 11726 270 50.11 30 57 6 V Sehwag 2001-2013 96 168 4 8151 319 49.70 23 28 16 CA Pujara 2010-2018 61 103 7 4723 206* 49.19 15 17 5 VS Hazare 1946-1953 30 52 6 2192 164* 47.65 7 9 4 VVS Laxman 1996-2012 125 213 32 8384 281 46.32 16 55 14 Quote Both Rohit Sharma and Dhawan average 61 in tests in Asia. Are we asking for them in this test series because of that that ? Rahane averages 57 in Australia. Why are you asking for his exclusion from the Australian tour if averages are be all and end all ? Therefore, we look at current career averages .... not go by where a batsman has averaged what in time immemorial Unlike bowlers, so far, batsmen are played in various conditions Quote What is the point of posting the same stats repeatedly in the same thread ! To save you the time from making unnecessary points, while highlighting that recent performances have to be given weightage too .... what Rahane, Pujara, Rahul, etc. did 4-5 years ago is now irrelevant. If we have to consider past performance, why be against likes of Dhoni in LOIs .... if Kohli performs badly over the next 2 years or so, his position will be in question too (esp. if career avg falls dramatically) .... No need to mention again what the current career avgs of Rahane and Rahul, along with Rohit, Dhawan, etc., are I support Pujara because of his avg of close to 50 (and maintained because of recent performances), and when others don't avg that much .... His innings per 100 metrics is among the best .... Intangibles include ability to play spin, get big scores, and play sessions out .... That avg is achieved after playing in various conditions .... If his career avg were of close to 40 (like that of the other names being discussed), he would be on notice too .... as I said nothing is set in stone Edited October 8, 2018 by zen Link to comment
Lannister Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 12 hours ago, zen said: Please look at test avg of both players. 49-50 vs 37-38. That is a difference of 11-12 runs! Rahul currently is inconsistent. And you can look at everyone’s performance in Eng, along with overseas avg in the last two years posted on this thread. The issue is not whether Pujara is good or bad, but others are not even performing at Pujara’s level It's obvious Pujara has boosted his stats while performing on Indian wickets, as there's a clear 20 runs gap between his overall average and the SENA average. As of now, he is just as bad as Rahul, only that he has been playing for India for almost 8 years now. Depending on his performance, Australian tour may very well be his last Test series and he should be the first one to be dropped before any youngster. express bowling 1 Link to comment
zen Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lannister said: It's obvious Pujara has boosted his stats while performing on Indian wickets, as there's a clear 20 runs gap between his overall average and the SENA average. As of now, he is just as bad as Rahul, only that he has been playing for India for almost 8 years now. If you read the stats that I posted in my response to you, they were from the last two years. Both have played more than 20 tests, where Pujara avg 51, while Rahul avg 38 .... In SENA both have played 7 tests, where Pujara avgs 29 and Rahul avg 23. In this period, Pujara's SENA avg is higher than everyone's except Kohli .... And SENA is a part of the pie, not a be all end all Also note that a career avg of around 50 is an accepted standard and maintaining it is no joke. Guys like Rahul for e.g. may not even go over 45 .... Pujara is not an issue currently as if Pujara is bad, likes of Rahul are worse Quote Depending on his performance, Australian tour may very well be his last Test series and he should be the first one to be dropped before any youngster. Since Pujara's career avg is around 50 and others avg is around 40, Aus tour could be even more decisive for likes of Rahul .... Rahul could turn out to be Afridi of Tests (I hope he does well though) and Agarwal could be opening w/ Shaw Based on current situation, below are the levels in test (drawing parallels with automotive marques): Porsche: Kohli Mercedes / BMW / Audi: Pujara Toyota / Nissan / Honda: Rahane, Rahul, etc. Let Rahul first display that he can establish himself in test cricket, then we can do him vs others PS FYI in terms of avg and innings per 100, Pujara is among our top 5-7 batsmen: View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Opposition team Australia or England or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 10 and runs scored greater than or equal to 2000 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 36 of 36 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 V Kohli 2011-2018 70 120 8 6030 243 53.83 23 19 7 SM Gavaskar 1971-1987 125 214 16 10122 236* 51.12 34 45 12 SR Tendulkar 1989-2013 184 306 28 14183 241* 51.01 43 65 13 R Dravid 1996-2012 147 261 27 11726 270 50.11 30 57 6 V Sehwag 2001-2013 96 168 4 8151 319 49.70 23 28 16 CA Pujara 2010-2018 61 103 7 4723 206* 49.19 15 17 5 VS Hazare 1946-1953 30 52 6 2192 164* 47.65 7 9 4 VVS Laxman 1996-2012 125 213 32 8384 281 46.32 16 55 14 Edited October 9, 2018 by zen Link to comment
Lannister Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 hours ago, zen said: If you read the stats that I posted in my response to you, they were from the last two years. Both have played more than 20 tests, where Pujara avg 51, while Rahul avg 38 .... In SENA both have played 7 tests, where Pujara avgs 29 and Rahul avg 23. In this period, Pujara's SENA avg is higher than everyone's except Kohli But what's the point of considering overall average when we are discussing about SENA performances. I agree he is our best bat in Asia but should he fail in Australia tour, that should be the last overseas test series for him. We need to find batsmen similar to Kohli and that should start in our home test series, where the youngsters can get some experience before going to SENA countries. 2 hours ago, zen said: Also note that a career avg of around 50 is an accepted standard and maintaining it is no joke. Guys like Rahul for e.g. may not even go over 45. To draw meaningful conclusions, please "read" the stats carefully as if Pujara is bad, likes of Rahul are worse I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Whenever he was backed for full test series, he has performed really well. The only places he performed poorly was in SA and Eng, where even a veteran like Pujara was looking a tail-ender. 2 hours ago, zen said: Since Pujara's career avg is around 50 and others like Rahul are not even near 40, Aus tour could be even more decisive for likes of Rahul, who might turn out to be Afridi of Tests (I hope he does well though) Well, Rahul need to be backed for atleast 2 more years before coming to the conclusion that he is equivalent to Toyota. We clearly saw how your china model went unsold year after year in IPL. Link to comment
UrmiSinhaRay Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Well, Rahul need to be backed for atleast 2 more years before coming to the conclusion that he is equivalent to Toyota. We clearly saw how your china model went unsold year after year in IPL. 2 yrs-no way, itna lamba rope dega toh he will take it for granted. I say this tour and Australia tour. No more than thatSent from my CPH1609 using Tapatalk beetle 1 Link to comment
express bowling Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 The main issue is ... we have had a disastrous year in test cricket this year and it is mainly due to our poor batting ... while our bowling unit has managed to take 20 wickets on most occasions this year and for the last 3 years. There have been very few occasions in the last 45 years, that India was dependant on only one batsman on big away tours. And now an important tour of Australia is coming up ... and our batting unit still looks weak. All the stats bombardments and arguments won't change that. Only hope is that pitches in Australia maybe flat and our batsmen may do better. I really hope both Pujara and Rahul do well in Australia. Our team needs it. Lannister, Clarke and UrmiSinhaRay 1 2 Link to comment
express bowling Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) Md. Shami ( a favourite of mine ) is another player who is not giving full confidence on the upcoming tour to Australia. He is an amazing bowler in Asia ... but his bowling outside Asia has not been good enough this year. Bumrah and Ishant book 2 slots. But we should have tried both Siraj and Saini in this test series to see if any of them have the the game to replace Shami in Australia. We need all-condition pacers ... and Shami has been a disappointment in this regard. I hope he does well in Australia. Edited October 9, 2018 by express bowling Lannister 1 Link to comment
Lannister Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 44 minutes ago, UrmiSinhaRay said: 2 yrs-no way, itna lamba rope dega toh he will take it for granted. I say this tour and Australia tour. No more than that Sent from my CPH1609 using Tapatalk I was talking in the context of number of matches Pujara got to play in his initial years. He was backed even after couple of failures in his first overseas tours to SENA. That's how these guys are still playing for India. UrmiSinhaRay and express bowling 1 1 Link to comment
UrmiSinhaRay Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I was talking in the context of number of matches Pujara got to play in his initial years. He was backed even after couple of failures in his first overseas tours to SENA. That's how these guys are still playing for India. Pujara Still puts in effort though I agree he is a failure. KL rahul is someone who doesn't try and has taken his fame for granted. Dropping him will do some good. Sent from my CPH1609 using Tapatalk Link to comment
Lannister Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, UrmiSinhaRay said: Pujara Still puts in effort though I agree he is a failure. KL rahul is someone who doesn't try and has taken his fame for granted. Dropping him will do some good. Sent from my CPH1609 using Tapatalk But the above stats say otherwise. He has done really well when he was backed for full Test series. Now that he is a permanent member of team India in Test cricket, he will come good. Pujara has been with this team for close to 8 years now and he is a failure in overseas test tours. If anyone he should be the one to make way for an youngster. express bowling 1 Link to comment
zen Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Lannister said: But what's the point of considering overall average when we are discussing about SENA performances. I agree he is our best bat in Asia but should he fail in Australia tour, that should be the last overseas test series for him. We need to find batsmen similar to Kohli and that should start in our home test series, where the youngsters can get some experience before going to SENA countries. I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Whenever he was backed for full test series, he has performed really well. The only places he performed poorly was in SA and Eng, where even a veteran like Pujara was looking a tail-ender. Well, Rahul need to be backed for atleast 2 more years before coming to the conclusion that he is equivalent to Toyota. We clearly saw how your china model went unsold year after year in IPL. This is not a SENA discussion thread. SENA is unnecessarily brought in by those who do not like that Pujara has been a mainstay of our batting, along with Kohli .... as mentioned, SENA is a part of the pie and not an be all end all Unlike bowlers, batsmen are played in a variety of conditions therefore overall avg is considered Apart from Kohli. All our batsmen have not been played constantly. In the last two years, all those listed in the stats table have played 20 or more tests .... so Rahul has nothing to complain, who has played more tests than Dhawan in this period I think Rahul was backed sufficiently. His honeymoon period is now over and needs raise his game and perform. Rahul avg only 38. No more excuses And this is about test cricket not LOIs. Pujara is a test specialist. You brought in IPL but TM did not even consider Rahul in Asia Cup for a regular spot. I don’t recall many T20s as I usually follow test cricket Thanks! Edited October 9, 2018 by zen UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
zen Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, UrmiSinhaRay said: 2 yrs-no way, itna lamba rope dega toh he will take it for granted. I say this tour and Australia tour. No more than that Sent from my CPH1609 using Tapatalk I agree. Rahul was backed sufficiently recently including by fans and now needs to perform .... he is at the end of the rope Rahul fans play this SENA game to undermine other batsmen which worked for likes of Dhawan as he avg around 40. These folks don’t realize that Pujara is a different beast with a career avg of around 50 (different league) Right now Rahul is not even avg 40 in tests and yet to show his bankability I wish all our players success! This is just laying some facts and information on the table Edited October 9, 2018 by zen UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
Nikhil_cric Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 So Pujara is our best bat away from Asia after Kohli(still bad) and an absolute monster in Asia. I will take that. We need home track/spin track bullies as well. This guy is the best player of spin in the world right now. Rahane has been pathetic everywhere. But that's to be expected if you are missing out on full tosses. Mental midget. UrmiSinhaRay 1 Link to comment
zen Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: So Pujara is our best bat away from Asia after Kohli(still bad) and an absolute monster in Asia. I will take that. We need home track/spin track bullies as well. This guy is the best player of spin in the world right now. Rahane has been pathetic everywhere. But that's to be expected if you are missing out on full tosses. Mental midget. That is a good assessment .... among specialist batsmen, Pujara has been above others except Kohli of course .... FYI, on the recent tour to Eng: View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Opposition team England Home or away away (home of opposition) Start of match date between 10 Oct 2017 and 10 Oct 2018 Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 3 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 11 of 11 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s V Kohli 5 10 0 593 149 59.30 1025 57.85 2 3 1 67 1 CA Pujara 4 8 1 278 132* 39.71 726 38.29 1 1 1 33 0 KL Rahul 5 10 0 299 149 29.90 450 66.44 1 0 1 44 1 RR Pant 3 6 0 162 114 27.00 252 64.28 1 0 1 20 6 AM Rahane 5 10 0 257 81 25.70 639 40.21 0 2 1 27 0 HH Pandya 4 8 1 164 52* 23.42 288 56.94 0 1 1 26 1 R Ashwin 4 8 2 126 33* 21.00 177 71.18 0 0 0 19 1 S Dhawan 4 8 0 162 44 20.25 292 55.47 0 0 0 23 0 Edited October 10, 2018 by zen Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now